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Without engaging the merits of this particular case, I do think there is an interesting takeaway about which companies wield even more power than Amazon (and Bi

by runako 3y ago

Without engaging the merits of this particular case, I do think there is an interesting takeaway about which companies wield even more power than Amazon (and Big Tech more generally, since Google and Meta are also discussed as likely targets of similar suits). Notably: health insurers. They're an oligopoly whose revenues total something like 4% of US GDP. They engage in anticompetitive practices, and the end result is far more consumer harm than Amazon can do. (Because people generally spend a lot more on health insurance premiums than they do on Amazon in a year.) Similar could be written about e.g. airlines. Lobbying works. Tech will eventually figure this out.

tqi 3y ago
> Lobbying works. Tech will eventually figure this out. Tech is well aware of this, and is spending accordingly[1]. However I think politics are a bigger motivating factor, and taking "tech" to task is viewed as a good way to score points (probably helps that legacy media views tech as direct competitors, and covers them accordingly). [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/23/apple-ramped-up-lobbying-spending-in-2022-outpacing-tech-peers.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/23/apple-ramped-up-lobbying-spe...
- runako 3y ago
  They kind of get it, but are not at the magnitude yet where it would be effective enough to squash these types of interventions. By comparison, healthcare lobbying spends more every quarter what Big Tech did in all of 2022.
  - nebula8804 3y ago
    There was one lasting lesson I learned from AOC's first election and the subsequent attempts to challenge many seats at all levels of government. That incumbents have organizations that will spend as much money as they can to stop a challenger. In the case of the Queens DA race(which is the first time AOC endorsed somebody), I seem to recall that the local democratic council had to blow their entire budget to try and stop Caban(AOC's endorsed candidate). They did manage to defeat her by 60 votes but the lesson I learned is that we should be running candidates in every single seat in every single race in every single election. Some groups like Brand New Congress have attempted this but it is tough to challenge all 435 members of the house. Unfortunately all these groups are on retreat since Biden got elected. It took a candidate like Trump to make people realize that they had hit a new low and to start doing something. Biden and the party is using the fear of Trump coming back to now suppress any dissent. Yes the overwhelming majority will lose but it makes continuing business as usual as expensive as humanly possible. There is no way all these companies can recover every last penny if this is continually done every election. (There are small time elections happening every year so there really needs to be challengers at all levels)
kibwen 3y ago
The irony here is that Amazon is literally a health care provider, after acquiring One Medical. Break all these companies up, before we find ourselves even deeper in a cyperpunk dystopia.
joe_the_user 3y ago
Much as I might see health insurers and private medical companies in general as often bad actors, I don't think "more competition" is at all a reasonable suggestion for any part of the health sector. Health insurance companies naturally need to be regulated - just one reason among many is that anyone could take people's money, pay claims for a bit and then vanish with money paid to shareholders who aren't liable for the scam. And once you have an industry, health care, that must have detailed state regulation, the only solution is nationalizing the industry, as medicine is nationalized in most civilized industrial nations.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  They may need to be regulated, but that doesn’t change the fact that something is seriously broken and real competition would help. Regulation is surely part of the problem but maybe not all of it. The entire idea of “networks” seems designed to allow them as little competition as possible.
marcod 3y ago
> airlines https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/airlines-banks-mileage-programs/675374/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/airlines-b...

by runako 3y ago

tqi 3y ago

> Lobbying works. Tech will eventually figure this out. Tech is well aware of this, and is spending accordingly[1]. However I think politics are a bigger motivating factor, and taking "tech" to task is viewed as a good way to score points (probably helps that legacy media views tech as direct competitors, and covers them accordingly). [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/23/apple-ramped-up-lobbying-spending-in-2022-outpacing-tech-peers.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/23/apple-ramped-up-lobbying-spe...

runako 3y ago
They kind of get it, but are not at the magnitude yet where it would be effective enough to squash these types of interventions. By comparison, healthcare lobbying spends more every quarter what Big Tech did in all of 2022.
- nebula8804 3y ago
  There was one lasting lesson I learned from AOC's first election and the subsequent attempts to challenge many seats at all levels of government. That incumbents have organizations that will spend as much money as they can to stop a challenger. In the case of the Queens DA race(which is the first time AOC endorsed somebody), I seem to recall that the local democratic council had to blow their entire budget to try and stop Caban(AOC's endorsed candidate). They did manage to defeat her by 60 votes but the lesson I learned is that we should be running candidates in every single seat in every single race in every single election. Some groups like Brand New Congress have attempted this but it is tough to challenge all 435 members of the house. Unfortunately all these groups are on retreat since Biden got elected. It took a candidate like Trump to make people realize that they had hit a new low and to start doing something. Biden and the party is using the fear of Trump coming back to now suppress any dissent. Yes the overwhelming majority will lose but it makes continuing business as usual as expensive as humanly possible. There is no way all these companies can recover every last penny if this is continually done every election. (There are small time elections happening every year so there really needs to be challengers at all levels)

kibwen 3y ago

The irony here is that Amazon is literally a health care provider, after acquiring One Medical. Break all these companies up, before we find ourselves even deeper in a cyperpunk dystopia.

joe_the_user 3y ago

Much as I might see health insurers and private medical companies in general as often bad actors, I don't think "more competition" is at all a reasonable suggestion for any part of the health sector. Health insurance companies naturally need to be regulated - just one reason among many is that anyone could take people's money, pay claims for a bit and then vanish with money paid to shareholders who aren't liable for the scam. And once you have an industry, health care, that must have detailed state regulation, the only solution is nationalizing the industry, as medicine is nationalized in most civilized industrial nations.

edgyquant 3y ago
They may need to be regulated, but that doesn’t change the fact that something is seriously broken and real competition would help. Regulation is surely part of the problem but maybe not all of it. The entire idea of “networks” seems designed to allow them as little competition as possible.

marcod 3y ago

> airlines https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/airlines-banks-mileage-programs/675374/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/airlines-b...