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It is not, as the Ukrainian air force continues to conduct regular sorties and has successfully prevented the Russian air force from every gaining air supremacy

It is not, as the Ukrainian air force continues to conduct regular sorties and has successfully prevented the Russian air force from every gaining air supremacy. The Russian air force has taken massive losses, both in terms of planes and pilots, but it also continues to exist, from a non-generous and factual perspective.

vGPU 3y ago
The Air Force with an estimated strength somewhere stern that of algeria and chile? Last I checked, they literally had more trainer aircraft than actual combat jets left.
- CydeWeys 3y ago
  You got a source for that? They've had MiGs donated by other Eastern European countries as well.
- _kbh_ 3y ago
  > The Air Force with an estimated strength somewhere stern that of algeria and chile? It’s amazing that such a small airforce manages to prevent russia from gaining air superiority and even manages to effectively conduct sorties isn’t it. Just shows you how different it is when your the invading force. russias airforce losses largely outsize Ukraines even though Ukraine has a smaller airforce and they older planes.
- anikan_vader 3y ago
  >> with an estimated strength somewhere stern that of algeria and chile? You have named two countries with credible and substantial air forces. Critically, both the Algerian air force and Chilean air force exist (the claim that I initially defended). Indeed, both Chile and Algeria have similarly-sized economies to Ukraine, and both countries operate sizeable air forces relative to other countries in South America and North Africa. It is worth noting that the Ukrainian air force has 50+ F-16s scheduled for delivery in the near future. >> Last I checked, they literally had more trainer aircraft than actual combat jets left. They did have a relatively impressive number of L-39 jet trainers at the beginning of the war, as you alluded to. It is difficult to assess how many have survived the war. I would presume that you are correct to estimate that trainer aircraft have a lower attrition rate than combat jets during war.
- rewmie 3y ago
  > The Air Force with an estimated strength somewhere stern that of algeria and chile? Some rankings list Algeria right below Russia, and above Spain and Canada in terms of air power, and Chile is ranked above Korea and Norway. https://www.wdmma.org/ranking.php https://www.wdmma.org/ranking.php Also, apparently that's all it takes to ground the self-described second army of the world. I'm not sure you thought your argument through.
notfromhere 3y ago
The reason Russia doesn’t fly much over Ukraine because of its AA network, not because the Ukrainian Air Force is a particularly good opponent. Can’t exactly fly combat sorties when the whole country is littered in NASAM and Patriot systems
- anikan_vader 3y ago
  I agree that ground anti-air has played a larger role in denying either side air supremacy than fighter jets. But it is important to note that Russia failed to establish air supremacy over Ukraine during the almost year before western anti-air arrived. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian air force effectively carried out anti-air missions (including against drones) and even some ground attack sorties. So, tellingly, the Russian air force failed to establish supremacy over Ukraine when Ukraine fielded only Soviet-era aircraft and anti-air (and in comparatively small numbers). Which strongly suggests that the Russian Air Force is not a particularly good opponent either. But critically, the Ukrainian Air Force continues to exist as a fleet-in-being. So while it may not currently be capable of much force projection (I would argue that the Russian air force is also not capable of much force projection against a serious adversary), it does force its adversary to strategically deploy anti-air. As Russian anti-air systems become depleted (which may be sooner or may be later, but due to the rapid destruction of S-400 systems of late, my money is on sooner), it is quite possible that the Ukrainian air force will play a larger role, especially given that training on F-16s commence in a handful of weeks.
  - haldujai 3y ago
    Pretty sure Ukraine had one of the better GBADs in Europe going into the war, especially as that’s not an area the West invests a great deal in. The CNA and RUSI have both released excellent reports on the VKS challenges and performance. SEAD/DEAD missions seem to be much harder than the US has made them look in the past (granted against much weaker GBADs than Ukraine or Russia have). https://www.cna.org/reports/2023/04/Russian-Combat-Air-Strengths-and-Limitations.pdf https://www.cna.org/reports/2023/04/Russian-Combat-Air-Stren...
    - 3y ago

vGPU 3y ago

The Air Force with an estimated strength somewhere stern that of algeria and chile? Last I checked, they literally had more trainer aircraft than actual combat jets left.

CydeWeys 3y ago
You got a source for that? They've had MiGs donated by other Eastern European countries as well.
_kbh_ 3y ago
> The Air Force with an estimated strength somewhere stern that of algeria and chile? It’s amazing that such a small airforce manages to prevent russia from gaining air superiority and even manages to effectively conduct sorties isn’t it. Just shows you how different it is when your the invading force. russias airforce losses largely outsize Ukraines even though Ukraine has a smaller airforce and they older planes.
anikan_vader 3y ago
>> with an estimated strength somewhere stern that of algeria and chile? You have named two countries with credible and substantial air forces. Critically, both the Algerian air force and Chilean air force exist (the claim that I initially defended). Indeed, both Chile and Algeria have similarly-sized economies to Ukraine, and both countries operate sizeable air forces relative to other countries in South America and North Africa. It is worth noting that the Ukrainian air force has 50+ F-16s scheduled for delivery in the near future. >> Last I checked, they literally had more trainer aircraft than actual combat jets left. They did have a relatively impressive number of L-39 jet trainers at the beginning of the war, as you alluded to. It is difficult to assess how many have survived the war. I would presume that you are correct to estimate that trainer aircraft have a lower attrition rate than combat jets during war.
rewmie 3y ago
> The Air Force with an estimated strength somewhere stern that of algeria and chile? Some rankings list Algeria right below Russia, and above Spain and Canada in terms of air power, and Chile is ranked above Korea and Norway. https://www.wdmma.org/ranking.php https://www.wdmma.org/ranking.php Also, apparently that's all it takes to ground the self-described second army of the world. I'm not sure you thought your argument through.

notfromhere 3y ago

The reason Russia doesn’t fly much over Ukraine because of its AA network, not because the Ukrainian Air Force is a particularly good opponent. Can’t exactly fly combat sorties when the whole country is littered in NASAM and Patriot systems

anikan_vader 3y ago
I agree that ground anti-air has played a larger role in denying either side air supremacy than fighter jets. But it is important to note that Russia failed to establish air supremacy over Ukraine during the almost year before western anti-air arrived. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian air force effectively carried out anti-air missions (including against drones) and even some ground attack sorties. So, tellingly, the Russian air force failed to establish supremacy over Ukraine when Ukraine fielded only Soviet-era aircraft and anti-air (and in comparatively small numbers). Which strongly suggests that the Russian Air Force is not a particularly good opponent either. But critically, the Ukrainian Air Force continues to exist as a fleet-in-being. So while it may not currently be capable of much force projection (I would argue that the Russian air force is also not capable of much force projection against a serious adversary), it does force its adversary to strategically deploy anti-air. As Russian anti-air systems become depleted (which may be sooner or may be later, but due to the rapid destruction of S-400 systems of late, my money is on sooner), it is quite possible that the Ukrainian air force will play a larger role, especially given that training on F-16s commence in a handful of weeks.
- haldujai 3y ago
  Pretty sure Ukraine had one of the better GBADs in Europe going into the war, especially as that’s not an area the West invests a great deal in. The CNA and RUSI have both released excellent reports on the VKS challenges and performance. SEAD/DEAD missions seem to be much harder than the US has made them look in the past (granted against much weaker GBADs than Ukraine or Russia have). https://www.cna.org/reports/2023/04/Russian-Combat-Air-Strengths-and-Limitations.pdf https://www.cna.org/reports/2023/04/Russian-Combat-Air-Stren...
  - 3y ago