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I subscribe to the perspective that brain injuries are the injuries that matter most in sports, so that's what I focus on in the "what's more dangerous" questio

I subscribe to the perspective that brain injuries are the injuries that matter most in sports, so that's what I focus on in the "what's more dangerous" question. I had believed that rugby carried a lower concussion risk because of the lack of padding/helmets changed player behavior, but it looks like that's not the case. This[1] is one of the best analysis/discussions I found. It references this[2] 2021 meta-analysis as the most expansive. A few key quotes: > This meta-analysis demonstrated rugby has the highest concussion risk, followed by American Football, ice hockey, and wrestling. > Meanwhile, a 2015 study in the British Journal of Sports Medicine looked at 13 articles that addressed sports concussion rates. It found that rugby placed first, with a rate more than three times higher than ice hockey and eight times higher than American football. > One paper, published in 2016 in the American Journal of Sports Medicine, looked at NCAA Division I injuries over three seasons for both sports. The authors found that the overall injury rate was about three times higher in rugby than in American football, and that a subset of this, the concussion rate, was about 2.5 times higher in rugby than in football. The authors deemed these differences to represent a "substantially higher" risk for rugby. TL;DR: Rugby's probably the most dangerous for concussions and overall injury of any major team sport. [1] https://www.wral.com/story/fact-check-biden-says-football-is-more-dangerous-than-rugby/20828386/ https://www.wral.com/story/fact-check-biden-says-football-is... [2] https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23776916-concussion-risk-across-sports https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23776916-concussion-...

Retric 3y ago
At the professional level Brian injuries are the most important, but most pro athletes are often absolutely wrecking their body. However, at the level of high school students concussions are significant but joint injuries are more likely to be life altering. Of course that’s less impactful per person than death, TBI, spinal injuries, etc but you also see that stuff from people driving to and from less dangerous sports so there’s many ways to slice this stuff. Consider vastly more football players people have died getting to the event than at the event. So arguably the biggest way to make these sports safer is to ban players traveling long distances to events.
jaclaz 3y ago
And there is Australian Rule too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_(Australian_rules_football) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_(Australian_rules_... No idea about severity or frequency of incidents but the (very few) matches I happened to watch were far more "physical" than rugby.
taeric 3y ago
Awesome links! I'll try to dive on both, a little at least. I think it is safe to say both sports should continue to get the attention they are getting with regards to safety. Hopefully they follow up on that more. I'm curious on how the data works by position. Thinking on it for a moment, I'd expect risk of injury for most positions in American Football is low. Such that, for the entire sport, this data actually does make a lot of sense. However, it is also easy to see that positions like quarterback are far more likely to get certain kinds of injuries. To the credit of the league, many of the more severe injuries that we saw years ago would be illegal hits in today's game. Again, this data does make sense. And I think it is safe to say that rugby is almost certainly more dangerous.
stanford_labrat 3y ago
I also used to ascribe to the belief that rugby had fewer concussions (as a collegiate/semi-pro rugby player) but I wasn't aware of these data, thanks for sharing. In retrospect, it makes sense to me. I think the nature of rugby collisions and how you play the game just lends itself to more concussions than American football. A lot of AF is throwing passes which get broken up by less violent hits versus in rugby the only way is to tackle the guy carrying the ball.
dundarious 3y ago
Is there a looming CTE crisis for rugby, or is it already a significant issue?
- dfxm12 3y ago
  CTE is looming over any athlete of a contact sport. This lawsuit might be a crisis: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/nfl-style-lawsuit-brain-injury-concerns-hang-rugby-102639710 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/nfl-style-lawsuit-br... However, when you consider the NFL, which had a similar lawsuit, it is making more money than ever and not having trouble recruiting people to play, so I dunno. The sport itself will likely be OK. As an aside, this article features Chris Nowinski, who is a leader in this field. If this topic interests you, you might enjoy reading his book Head Games or following him on socials.
  - dundarious 3y ago
    Thanks, I was genuinely curious to see any answers.
tw04 3y ago
The problem with these studies is that they gather their stats from doctors. I have no idea about Rugby, but American football has a very real culture of hiding concussions at all costs. If the only statistics they're using are from team doctors, they are GROSSLY underestimating the number of concussions in an average football season. There's a belief that the average lineman is suffering some form of brain damage on pretty much every down they're in the game. https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/linemen-are-more-prone-to-cte-than-skill-position-players-nfl-study-concludes-01dxm5hs5nry https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/linemen-are-more-prone-to-c...
brightball 3y ago
I remember reading a study that showed women's soccer was actually the highest concussion risk of any sport. It's been a few years but it stood out to me at the time.

Retric 3y ago

At the professional level Brian injuries are the most important, but most pro athletes are often absolutely wrecking their body. However, at the level of high school students concussions are significant but joint injuries are more likely to be life altering. Of course that’s less impactful per person than death, TBI, spinal injuries, etc but you also see that stuff from people driving to and from less dangerous sports so there’s many ways to slice this stuff. Consider vastly more football players people have died getting to the event than at the event. So arguably the biggest way to make these sports safer is to ban players traveling long distances to events.

jaclaz 3y ago

And there is Australian Rule too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_(Australian_rules_football) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_(Australian_rules_... No idea about severity or frequency of incidents but the (very few) matches I happened to watch were far more "physical" than rugby.

taeric 3y ago

Awesome links! I'll try to dive on both, a little at least. I think it is safe to say both sports should continue to get the attention they are getting with regards to safety. Hopefully they follow up on that more. I'm curious on how the data works by position. Thinking on it for a moment, I'd expect risk of injury for most positions in American Football is low. Such that, for the entire sport, this data actually does make a lot of sense. However, it is also easy to see that positions like quarterback are far more likely to get certain kinds of injuries. To the credit of the league, many of the more severe injuries that we saw years ago would be illegal hits in today's game. Again, this data does make sense. And I think it is safe to say that rugby is almost certainly more dangerous.

stanford_labrat 3y ago

I also used to ascribe to the belief that rugby had fewer concussions (as a collegiate/semi-pro rugby player) but I wasn't aware of these data, thanks for sharing. In retrospect, it makes sense to me. I think the nature of rugby collisions and how you play the game just lends itself to more concussions than American football. A lot of AF is throwing passes which get broken up by less violent hits versus in rugby the only way is to tackle the guy carrying the ball.

dundarious 3y ago

Is there a looming CTE crisis for rugby, or is it already a significant issue?

dfxm12 3y ago
CTE is looming over any athlete of a contact sport. This lawsuit might be a crisis: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/nfl-style-lawsuit-brain-injury-concerns-hang-rugby-102639710 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/nfl-style-lawsuit-br... However, when you consider the NFL, which had a similar lawsuit, it is making more money than ever and not having trouble recruiting people to play, so I dunno. The sport itself will likely be OK. As an aside, this article features Chris Nowinski, who is a leader in this field. If this topic interests you, you might enjoy reading his book Head Games or following him on socials.
- dundarious 3y ago
  Thanks, I was genuinely curious to see any answers.

tw04 3y ago

The problem with these studies is that they gather their stats from doctors. I have no idea about Rugby, but American football has a very real culture of hiding concussions at all costs. If the only statistics they're using are from team doctors, they are GROSSLY underestimating the number of concussions in an average football season. There's a belief that the average lineman is suffering some form of brain damage on pretty much every down they're in the game. https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/linemen-are-more-prone-to-cte-than-skill-position-players-nfl-study-concludes-01dxm5hs5nry https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/linemen-are-more-prone-to-c...

brightball 3y ago

I remember reading a study that showed women's soccer was actually the highest concussion risk of any sport. It's been a few years but it stood out to me at the time.