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Why does media think it’s taboo to say “just eat less”. It’s basic Law of Thermodynamics. Energy in = energy out. And if you’re putting more energy into your

Why does media think it’s taboo to say “just eat less”. It’s basic Law of Thermodynamics. Energy in = energy out. And if you’re putting more energy into your body than you’re exerting out, it turns into extra weight. It’s literally that simple, and take that from someone whose done every type of diet plan in existence. Now yes, there’s food to eat that are very filling but lower in calories (like grilled chicken vs donut). But it’s still not anything more novel that calorie counting.

peterashford 3y ago
It's not that simple. If it were simple, no-one would struggle. Overeating is usually a psychological issue.
- tiffanyh 3y ago
  It’s typically not psychological. It’s more likely to be a function of people not knowing how many calories are in food. Eg, a salad from Chick Fila A might sound healthy, but it’s actually 850 calories. That’s nearly 1/2 of your daily intake. https://www.chick-fil-a.com/menu/cobb-salad https://www.chick-fil-a.com/menu/cobb-salad It’s also the same reason why schools in the US removed soda machines because it was a contributing factor to child obesity.
  - doix 3y ago
    > It’s more likely to be a function of people not knowing how many calories are in food. I strongly doubt it. In the UK, they put the amount of calories pretty much everywhere and there is still a obesity problem.
  - peterashford 3y ago
    This is just not true. Plenty of people who explicitly count calories still struggle to lose weight.
    - tiffanyh 3y ago
      That can’t be possible. Energy in = energy out More likely, people are underestimating the calories they are consuming, or are cheating.
      - Hermitian909 3y ago
        I think you misunderstand the failure mode. How do you measure calories out? Is that number static? How does it change over time? My father is obese, and has been for many years. At the weight he usually hovers at, his BMR appears to be ~2,500 calories. He can lose weight from here no problem eating ~1600 calories a day, not easy, but not to hard. The problem is, that after about 15 lbs of weightloss, he plateaus. Dexafit scans confirm there's been a massive reduction in BMR. By the time he's dropped 20 lbs his calorie counts generally need to be in the 1200s to lose weight, which is just torturous. The longest he ever last at these really low calorie counts was probably a year, I'm significantly smaller fitter than he is and I could not have lived a productive life on the diet he was eating. I'm not sure how common this kind of response is, but his doctor's didn't seem to think it uncommon.
        willcipriano 3y ago
        > At the weight he usually hovers at, his BMR appears to be ~2,500 calories. He can lose weight from here no problem eating ~1600 calories a day, not easy, but not to hard. So he is something like 60, sedentary, 5 foot 10 and 280 pounds. That results in a estimated TDEE (BMR plus accounting for calorie burn of basic life activities) of 2504 calories per day.[0] > By the time he's dropped 20 lbs his calorie counts generally need to be in the 1200s to lose weight In this scenario that would drop his TDEE to 2395 calories per day. At 1200 calories a day, if those numbers are correct should see at least 2 pounds a week of weight loss. If he is maintaining, check your priors. He is either overcounting exercise, over estimating TDEE or under counting what he eats. If you have weights and accurate calorie counts you can extrapolate his TDEE from that and know exactly what deficit to eat at. [0]https://tdeecalculator.net/ https://tdeecalculator.net/
        3y ago
  - nradov 3y ago
    The numbers vary a lot by individual. For me it would be closer to ¼ of my daily intake.
  - paulpauper 3y ago
    yeah but knowing what % of that 850 calories will be stored as fat or metabolized is the hard part and changes. obese ppl tend to store too many calories as fat due to bad genetics and other factors but are hungry all the time too...a combination that assures weight gain. People with better genetics are able to to eat to fullness without becoming obese because metabolism rises to accommodate surplus calories. That was the case for me. I ate 4-5k calories a day and never got above 190 for well over 15 years despite little exercise and being around 5'8. Other ppl could easily got to 300+ lbs on that diet. I would have jack in box for breakfast, panda express for lunch, and full dinner. plus lots of soda and snacks. It's all genes, in the end. It’s also the same reason why schools in the US removed soda machines because it was a contributing factor to child obesity. if only that was the only place to buy soda
- raincom 3y ago
  it is physiological, mostly triggered by signals (messed up hormones).
lusus_naturae 3y ago
> Why does media think it’s taboo to say “just eat less”. On average weight gain is related to overeating for most people, but the reasons for overeating may be complex and varied, so makes saying calories in/calories out inaccurate.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  It makes it unhelpful or not practically actionable, rather than inaccurate.
imagainstit 3y ago
These are all topics in the article, which doesn't deny energy in = out at all. It specifically points out that it's clear that this is how the medical interventions discussed in the article work: reducing calories by altering eating behavior. Also the article: it isn't taboo to say "just eat less", just that it is as ineffective as telling people with compulsive alcoholic behaviors to "just drink less".
hombre_fatal 3y ago
The third paragraph of the article begins addressing this. I'm not sure how you think it's taboo when it's been almost the only prong of our society's approach to obesity. "Guys just eat less lol". And when it doesn't work it's "Man is it taboo to say it or something? Can someone find out if the fats are receiving the message?" And when people find out society is trying other approaches to fight obesity like surgery or Ozempic, it's "Wait, have we tried the only thing that we've been trying for 100 years?"
dmz73 3y ago
To solve famine we can just tell starving people to eat more. It is that simple. To solve expensive rent we can just tell people to pay/charge less for housing. It is that simple. To solve climate change we can just tell people to emit less CO2. It is that simple. To solve global wars we can just tell people to stop fighting. It is that simple. See, I just solved all the world's problems. Simple.
- tiffanyh 3y ago
  No single person can control rent costs, climate change, or global wars. But you can control what you eat.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
    Not if you're poor in Western society; in this case, most of what is most affordable is ultra-processed, sugared garbage.
  - nunez 3y ago
    Some people can control their eating better than others. Some can't at all. Just like everything else.
addicted 3y ago
There’s issues with the simple calorie in - calorie out theory (there’s research showing that different bodies digest food differently so multiple people eating the exact same food might not absorb the same amount of calories, and also, all calories are not the same. You can eat 2000 calories in fries and 2000 calories in balanced meals and your body will respond very differently). But for the sake of argument let’s assume, as you claim, that calories in - calories out is all that matters. Especially if you make that assumption then “Just eat less” is a nonsensical piece of advice. Because “Just eat less” simply restates the problem, which is people eating too much. Actually useful advice would require helping a person with how they can eat less, and helping resolve the issues that lead them to eating more than they should eat.
- n8henrie 3y ago
  Can you reference any metabolic ward studies to back up your criticisms of the calorie in calorie out "theory" in otherwise healthy (excluding BMI) individuals? No doubt some people may have more efficient eg digestion of soluble fiber into SCFA based on their microbiota, but based on usual levels of consumption I would think this would make an absolutely trivial difference.
paulpauper 3y ago
The body is a dynamic system. Predicting how much calories coming out is hard and changes.
derelicta 3y ago
Is it simply "eat less" when 40% of a country's population is obese? Are the hundreds of millions "just" stupid, lazy and neglectful? After reaching those historical highs, we should be beyond the casual victim-blaming phase. It's obvious it doesn't lead us nowhere productive and it's just a way to dodge researching/fixing the underlaying issues.
- wetpaws 3y ago
  [dead]
wafer_thin 3y ago
This equation is fine, no one doubts it. The issue is why do people who have enough fat stores to last them months get hungry, and why does hunger feel like physical pain. And given these facts why does standard govermnent advice recommend that we constantly eat. I think two meals a day should be the max, and a glance at cereal sugar content makes breakfast the obvious one to drop. I followed this and it reduced my calorie intake and weight (lost 20kg over a couple of years).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
nunez 3y ago
Because "just eat less" is basically the same as saying "thoughts and prayers" after a school shooting. Sure, if everyone could count their calories with razor-sharp accuracy and eat less than they burn, everyone would be at the weight they want to be at, and nobody would need to look at pesky fat people anymore, right? I mean, I've counted calories with MFP for the last 10 years, and I know my BMR and TDEE and all that. If I can do it, everyone can, right? Except, ah, right, there's that one thing I forgot: not everyone is mentally wired to log everything they eat every day! Some (many) people don't even need to log since they don't eat that much anyway (and don't want to). Oh, and how I could forget? Some people are simply hungry ALL OF THE GOD DAMN TIME. Calorie counting doesn't make the hunger go away, either! The one thing that many people taking GLP-1 agonists like Ozempic or Manjaro have said over and over is "I didn't know I could just not feel hungry." That is absolutely wild shit! So, no, telling fat people that your body is a thermodynamic system (it is not, at least not a simple Thermo 101 style one) and CICO and MyFitnessPal is all you need isn't a solution. A better one, IMO, is to understand and maybe empathize with the fact that every body is different and that an ideal weight means something different to everyone.
- Kye 3y ago
  I remember essentially being hungry non-stop when I was younger. You know what finally fixed it? Resolving stressors! Or at least learning to handle them better. Learning to interrupt stressful thought patterns and replace them with neutral to positive patterns made all the difference. This is no shock to anyone who's actually studied weight issues, but the moralizing crowd still refuses to even acknowledge the science or even actual lived experiences on the subject. There's still stuff to work on, especially: realizing how many calories are in seemingly innocuous things, how A can lead to B, and prevent C (like buying junk food->can't not eat it if it's in the house->good food doesn't taste good), how certain foods trigger worse hunger rather than resolve it, etc. Mathematically, it may resolve to "east less," but the mechanics are much more complicated.
- helij 3y ago
  The truth is that for a lot of people 'just eat less' actually works. For majority of overweight and obese people that and speaking to their doctor would be first steps.

peterashford 3y ago

It's not that simple. If it were simple, no-one would struggle. Overeating is usually a psychological issue.

tiffanyh 3y ago
It’s typically not psychological. It’s more likely to be a function of people not knowing how many calories are in food. Eg, a salad from Chick Fila A might sound healthy, but it’s actually 850 calories. That’s nearly 1/2 of your daily intake. https://www.chick-fil-a.com/menu/cobb-salad https://www.chick-fil-a.com/menu/cobb-salad It’s also the same reason why schools in the US removed soda machines because it was a contributing factor to child obesity.
- doix 3y ago
  > It’s more likely to be a function of people not knowing how many calories are in food. I strongly doubt it. In the UK, they put the amount of calories pretty much everywhere and there is still a obesity problem.
- peterashford 3y ago
  This is just not true. Plenty of people who explicitly count calories still struggle to lose weight.
  - tiffanyh 3y ago
    That can’t be possible. Energy in = energy out More likely, people are underestimating the calories they are consuming, or are cheating.
    - Hermitian909 3y ago
      I think you misunderstand the failure mode. How do you measure calories out? Is that number static? How does it change over time? My father is obese, and has been for many years. At the weight he usually hovers at, his BMR appears to be ~2,500 calories. He can lose weight from here no problem eating ~1600 calories a day, not easy, but not to hard. The problem is, that after about 15 lbs of weightloss, he plateaus. Dexafit scans confirm there's been a massive reduction in BMR. By the time he's dropped 20 lbs his calorie counts generally need to be in the 1200s to lose weight, which is just torturous. The longest he ever last at these really low calorie counts was probably a year, I'm significantly smaller fitter than he is and I could not have lived a productive life on the diet he was eating. I'm not sure how common this kind of response is, but his doctor's didn't seem to think it uncommon.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        > At the weight he usually hovers at, his BMR appears to be ~2,500 calories. He can lose weight from here no problem eating ~1600 calories a day, not easy, but not to hard. So he is something like 60, sedentary, 5 foot 10 and 280 pounds. That results in a estimated TDEE (BMR plus accounting for calorie burn of basic life activities) of 2504 calories per day.[0] > By the time he's dropped 20 lbs his calorie counts generally need to be in the 1200s to lose weight In this scenario that would drop his TDEE to 2395 calories per day. At 1200 calories a day, if those numbers are correct should see at least 2 pounds a week of weight loss. If he is maintaining, check your priors. He is either overcounting exercise, over estimating TDEE or under counting what he eats. If you have weights and accurate calorie counts you can extrapolate his TDEE from that and know exactly what deficit to eat at. [0]https://tdeecalculator.net/ https://tdeecalculator.net/
        3y ago
- nradov 3y ago
  The numbers vary a lot by individual. For me it would be closer to ¼ of my daily intake.
- paulpauper 3y ago
  yeah but knowing what % of that 850 calories will be stored as fat or metabolized is the hard part and changes. obese ppl tend to store too many calories as fat due to bad genetics and other factors but are hungry all the time too...a combination that assures weight gain. People with better genetics are able to to eat to fullness without becoming obese because metabolism rises to accommodate surplus calories. That was the case for me. I ate 4-5k calories a day and never got above 190 for well over 15 years despite little exercise and being around 5'8. Other ppl could easily got to 300+ lbs on that diet. I would have jack in box for breakfast, panda express for lunch, and full dinner. plus lots of soda and snacks. It's all genes, in the end. It’s also the same reason why schools in the US removed soda machines because it was a contributing factor to child obesity. if only that was the only place to buy soda
raincom 3y ago
it is physiological, mostly triggered by signals (messed up hormones).

lusus_naturae 3y ago

> Why does media think it’s taboo to say “just eat less”. On average weight gain is related to overeating for most people, but the reasons for overeating may be complex and varied, so makes saying calories in/calories out inaccurate.

sokoloff 3y ago
It makes it unhelpful or not practically actionable, rather than inaccurate.

imagainstit 3y ago

These are all topics in the article, which doesn't deny energy in = out at all. It specifically points out that it's clear that this is how the medical interventions discussed in the article work: reducing calories by altering eating behavior. Also the article: it isn't taboo to say "just eat less", just that it is as ineffective as telling people with compulsive alcoholic behaviors to "just drink less".

hombre_fatal 3y ago

The third paragraph of the article begins addressing this. I'm not sure how you think it's taboo when it's been almost the only prong of our society's approach to obesity. "Guys just eat less lol". And when it doesn't work it's "Man is it taboo to say it or something? Can someone find out if the fats are receiving the message?" And when people find out society is trying other approaches to fight obesity like surgery or Ozempic, it's "Wait, have we tried the only thing that we've been trying for 100 years?"

dmz73 3y ago

To solve famine we can just tell starving people to eat more. It is that simple. To solve expensive rent we can just tell people to pay/charge less for housing. It is that simple. To solve climate change we can just tell people to emit less CO2. It is that simple. To solve global wars we can just tell people to stop fighting. It is that simple. See, I just solved all the world's problems. Simple.

tiffanyh 3y ago
No single person can control rent costs, climate change, or global wars. But you can control what you eat.
- ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
  Not if you're poor in Western society; in this case, most of what is most affordable is ultra-processed, sugared garbage.
- nunez 3y ago
  Some people can control their eating better than others. Some can't at all. Just like everything else.

addicted 3y ago

There’s issues with the simple calorie in - calorie out theory (there’s research showing that different bodies digest food differently so multiple people eating the exact same food might not absorb the same amount of calories, and also, all calories are not the same. You can eat 2000 calories in fries and 2000 calories in balanced meals and your body will respond very differently). But for the sake of argument let’s assume, as you claim, that calories in - calories out is all that matters. Especially if you make that assumption then “Just eat less” is a nonsensical piece of advice. Because “Just eat less” simply restates the problem, which is people eating too much. Actually useful advice would require helping a person with how they can eat less, and helping resolve the issues that lead them to eating more than they should eat.

n8henrie 3y ago
Can you reference any metabolic ward studies to back up your criticisms of the calorie in calorie out "theory" in otherwise healthy (excluding BMI) individuals? No doubt some people may have more efficient eg digestion of soluble fiber into SCFA based on their microbiota, but based on usual levels of consumption I would think this would make an absolutely trivial difference.

paulpauper 3y ago

The body is a dynamic system. Predicting how much calories coming out is hard and changes.

derelicta 3y ago

Is it simply "eat less" when 40% of a country's population is obese? Are the hundreds of millions "just" stupid, lazy and neglectful? After reaching those historical highs, we should be beyond the casual victim-blaming phase. It's obvious it doesn't lead us nowhere productive and it's just a way to dodge researching/fixing the underlaying issues.

wetpaws 3y ago
[dead]

wafer_thin 3y ago

This equation is fine, no one doubts it. The issue is why do people who have enough fat stores to last them months get hungry, and why does hunger feel like physical pain. And given these facts why does standard govermnent advice recommend that we constantly eat. I think two meals a day should be the max, and a glance at cereal sugar content makes breakfast the obvious one to drop. I followed this and it reduced my calorie intake and weight (lost 20kg over a couple of years).

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

nunez 3y ago

Because "just eat less" is basically the same as saying "thoughts and prayers" after a school shooting. Sure, if everyone could count their calories with razor-sharp accuracy and eat less than they burn, everyone would be at the weight they want to be at, and nobody would need to look at pesky fat people anymore, right? I mean, I've counted calories with MFP for the last 10 years, and I know my BMR and TDEE and all that. If I can do it, everyone can, right? Except, ah, right, there's that one thing I forgot: not everyone is mentally wired to log everything they eat every day! Some (many) people don't even need to log since they don't eat that much anyway (and don't want to). Oh, and how I could forget? Some people are simply hungry ALL OF THE GOD DAMN TIME. Calorie counting doesn't make the hunger go away, either! The one thing that many people taking GLP-1 agonists like Ozempic or Manjaro have said over and over is "I didn't know I could just not feel hungry." That is absolutely wild shit! So, no, telling fat people that your body is a thermodynamic system (it is not, at least not a simple Thermo 101 style one) and CICO and MyFitnessPal is all you need isn't a solution. A better one, IMO, is to understand and maybe empathize with the fact that every body is different and that an ideal weight means something different to everyone.

Kye 3y ago
I remember essentially being hungry non-stop when I was younger. You know what finally fixed it? Resolving stressors! Or at least learning to handle them better. Learning to interrupt stressful thought patterns and replace them with neutral to positive patterns made all the difference. This is no shock to anyone who's actually studied weight issues, but the moralizing crowd still refuses to even acknowledge the science or even actual lived experiences on the subject. There's still stuff to work on, especially: realizing how many calories are in seemingly innocuous things, how A can lead to B, and prevent C (like buying junk food->can't not eat it if it's in the house->good food doesn't taste good), how certain foods trigger worse hunger rather than resolve it, etc. Mathematically, it may resolve to "east less," but the mechanics are much more complicated.
helij 3y ago
The truth is that for a lot of people 'just eat less' actually works. For majority of overweight and obese people that and speaking to their doctor would be first steps.