3 ms·

To add a counterpoint, that specific example is really a poor choice to get the point across. It’s been established (https://www.insider.com/kidnapping-conspira

To add a counterpoint, that specific example is really a poor choice to get the point across. It’s been established (https://www.insider.com/kidnapping-conspiracy-whitmer-fbi-informants-report-2021-7 https://www.insider.com/kidnapping-conspiracy-whitmer-fbi-in...) that the Whitmer plot was run by the FBI itself, in a way having agents LARPing as terrorists. Also, I would hope the real LARPing community can feel safe enough to share tips on what to do if they run into police while running around the woods with foam swords.

catlover76 3y ago
Nothing has been "established" except that a number of those involved got convicted. It's silly to think the FBI can force people to commit crimes they had no desire to commit.
- DiabloD3 3y ago
  Blackmail, lying, misinformation, manipulation, and gaslighting: the tools of an undercover FBI agent.
  - sonotathrowaway 3y ago
    When conservatives are used to feeling privileged, equality feels like oppression.
    - ajhurliman 3y ago
      Right back atcha
      - ToValueFunfetti 3y ago
        Yeah, I don't see a clear case for either party having more privilege. Democrats have more control over academia, news media, and tech companies. Republicans are the typical party of the 1%, win elections without the popular vote, and often have status quo bias on their side. This makes sense; we should expect both sides to have equal power because, well, duh. That's what lets them be 'both sides' instead of the libertarians and socialists.
  - catlover76 3y ago
    Such things have always been a part of law enforcement repertoire. When the FBI was engaging in such "entrapment" against Muslim Americans after 9/11, you would never hear the right-wing complaining, but now of course that their own are turning out to be the perps and the targets, suddenly they want to act like they are against law enforcement over-reach and malfeasance. Except of course when the victim is Black, and then they switch back to not caring. At the end of the day, a good person can't be convinced to engage in terrorism or violence of any kind, whether politically or religiously motivated. The notion that people who wanted to kidnap someone--for the stupidest and most ignoble of reasons--are "victims" here is lacks any moral credibility or seriousness. And what's more, it's whiny, weak, and hypocritical. If you ask those criminals (that's all they are) or their supporters whether they think masculinity is in decline and under attack in America, they'd probably launch into a whole spiel of grievances, yet when it push comes to shove, those guys wanted to be absolved for responsibility for their actions and for the corruption of their own hearts and minds. Not manly at all. No integrity.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      Wait, this is a right vs left wing issue in USA? Explains the very low quality and very tribal discussions here. I thought this was about privacy and government overreach and in those threads the discussions are much better, but apparently all of that goes out the window when you add tribal conflicts...
      - sonotathrowaway 3y ago
        Republicans endorse political violence when it’s targeted against their political opponents - the plot to kidnap and execute the Michigan governor was “just a joke” (the perpetrators have been convicted and are currently incarcerated).
        Jensson 3y ago
        And seems like Democrats endorse police overreach when it is targeted against their political opponents, since it is them who are all over this thread saying basically "nothing to hide, nothing to fear". I wonder where all of those are in the typical police threads? ACAB except when cops did something I like, then it is "trust the cops to interpret this correctly!"? Politics is tiring for that reason, most people lose their rational thinking ability when that gets involved, and to an outsider all of it just looks like insanity.
sonotathrowaway 3y ago
^ this reads like a terrorist supporter still trying to justify their support of terrorism. They’ve already been convicted, they’re in jail and will be for a few more years. You lost, get over it.
mrguyorama 3y ago
Just like terrorism, if the person saying "Let's kidnap a government official" is an FBI agent but you didn't know, you still decided to conspire with that idea. The reason the bar for entrapment is so high is that the societal expectation is that you WON'T DO A BAD THING, even if 30 CIA agents all offer to sleep with you or give you a billion dollars or prepare everything for you and you just have to sign a sheet of paper. You probably shouldn't conspire to kidnap someone, regardless of who came up with the idea first. You are expected to just not engage with the guy suggesting it.
seventytwo 3y ago
[flagged]
droptablemain 3y ago
Friendly reminder that the three-letter agencies are very well embedded in every single "subversive" organizing community in the U.S., be it "left" or "right-wing."

catlover76 3y ago

Nothing has been "established" except that a number of those involved got convicted. It's silly to think the FBI can force people to commit crimes they had no desire to commit.

DiabloD3 3y ago
Blackmail, lying, misinformation, manipulation, and gaslighting: the tools of an undercover FBI agent.
- sonotathrowaway 3y ago
  When conservatives are used to feeling privileged, equality feels like oppression.
  - ajhurliman 3y ago
    Right back atcha
    - ToValueFunfetti 3y ago
      Yeah, I don't see a clear case for either party having more privilege. Democrats have more control over academia, news media, and tech companies. Republicans are the typical party of the 1%, win elections without the popular vote, and often have status quo bias on their side. This makes sense; we should expect both sides to have equal power because, well, duh. That's what lets them be 'both sides' instead of the libertarians and socialists.
- catlover76 3y ago
  Such things have always been a part of law enforcement repertoire. When the FBI was engaging in such "entrapment" against Muslim Americans after 9/11, you would never hear the right-wing complaining, but now of course that their own are turning out to be the perps and the targets, suddenly they want to act like they are against law enforcement over-reach and malfeasance. Except of course when the victim is Black, and then they switch back to not caring. At the end of the day, a good person can't be convinced to engage in terrorism or violence of any kind, whether politically or religiously motivated. The notion that people who wanted to kidnap someone--for the stupidest and most ignoble of reasons--are "victims" here is lacks any moral credibility or seriousness. And what's more, it's whiny, weak, and hypocritical. If you ask those criminals (that's all they are) or their supporters whether they think masculinity is in decline and under attack in America, they'd probably launch into a whole spiel of grievances, yet when it push comes to shove, those guys wanted to be absolved for responsibility for their actions and for the corruption of their own hearts and minds. Not manly at all. No integrity.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    Wait, this is a right vs left wing issue in USA? Explains the very low quality and very tribal discussions here. I thought this was about privacy and government overreach and in those threads the discussions are much better, but apparently all of that goes out the window when you add tribal conflicts...
    - sonotathrowaway 3y ago
      Republicans endorse political violence when it’s targeted against their political opponents - the plot to kidnap and execute the Michigan governor was “just a joke” (the perpetrators have been convicted and are currently incarcerated).
      - Jensson 3y ago
        And seems like Democrats endorse police overreach when it is targeted against their political opponents, since it is them who are all over this thread saying basically "nothing to hide, nothing to fear". I wonder where all of those are in the typical police threads? ACAB except when cops did something I like, then it is "trust the cops to interpret this correctly!"? Politics is tiring for that reason, most people lose their rational thinking ability when that gets involved, and to an outsider all of it just looks like insanity.

sonotathrowaway 3y ago

^ this reads like a terrorist supporter still trying to justify their support of terrorism. They’ve already been convicted, they’re in jail and will be for a few more years. You lost, get over it.

mrguyorama 3y ago

Just like terrorism, if the person saying "Let's kidnap a government official" is an FBI agent but you didn't know, you still decided to conspire with that idea. The reason the bar for entrapment is so high is that the societal expectation is that you WON'T DO A BAD THING, even if 30 CIA agents all offer to sleep with you or give you a billion dollars or prepare everything for you and you just have to sign a sheet of paper. You probably shouldn't conspire to kidnap someone, regardless of who came up with the idea first. You are expected to just not engage with the guy suggesting it.

seventytwo 3y ago

[flagged]

droptablemain 3y ago

Friendly reminder that the three-letter agencies are very well embedded in every single "subversive" organizing community in the U.S., be it "left" or "right-wing."