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I agree with the top post that the title confused me. But reading the article I came away with a very different take than you. This person is trying to define

I agree with the top post that the title confused me. But reading the article I came away with a very different take than you. This person is trying to define the difference between LARPing and being terrorist. That may be obvious to someone who knows LARPers, but not everyone does. I really don't think that the police are going to be a problem for people in fantasy gear, cosplaying, or re-enacting a historical battle. I have never heard of it. But LARPing shouldn't be an excuse for people who want to don real tactical gear and weapons and plan mayhem.

Jensson 3y ago
> I really don't think that the police are going to be a problem for people in fantasy gear, cosplaying, or re-enacting a historical battle. I have never heard of it. But now with these guidelines police has a reason to go after them. Something like: "I just followed these guidelines, it says you are showing terrorist signs and aren't real LARPers". They didn't do that before, but guidelines like these changes behavior and can easily make things worse.
- jstarfish 3y ago
  You're being histrionic. Nobody is coming for your LotR LARP group. These guidelines are literally an attempt to distinguish actual terrorists from people who insist on pretending to be terrorists. It's as much good faith as you can hope for from the government, considering the domain. None of this applies to you even if you're in the park wearing full Orc battlegear, are belligerent, drunk in public, and urinate on the arresting officer. Here's how low the bar is: > Among violent extremists, there may be online discussions about and guidance in using LARP as an excuse during encounters with law enforcement, Actual LARPers don't need to be reminded to tell cops that they're LARPing. The bar is that fucking low. They'll even accept lorebooks and stats sheets as proof.
- text0404 3y ago
  What motivation do they have to do this? Are you talking about, like, Civil War re-enactors? Pretty sure the police aren't going to roll up on some dudes in wigs and toy bayonets in a park. Those people usually get permits for that kind of thing anyways. If you're part of a group with a manifesto, ordering weapons and explosives and doing practice drills to take down the US government, then yeah... it's highly likely that the feds are going to pay attention.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    > If you're part of a group with a manifesto, ordering weapons and explosives and doing practice drills to take down the US government, then yeah... it's highly likely that the feds are going to pay attention. And in those cases the "I was just LARPing" defense already doesn't work. This document will not help catch criminals since in clear cases they are already caught, all it does is raise more suspicion against genuine LARPing.
    - pixl97 3y ago
      >: will not help catch criminals since in clear cases they are already caught ??? Yea, I can tell you've never actually worked around any real life investigations before. The difficulty with any real life situation is in a large enough group there will be some portion of the 'fakers' that are actually really motivated to commit illegal actions. Even online this issue occurs with forms that mock the stupidity of other groups, flat earthers being a great example. If left unchecked a forum can turn from satire to true believers.
falcolas 3y ago
> But LARPing shouldn't be an excuse for people who want to don real tactical gear and weapons and plan mayhem. Just saw a video talking a bit facetiously about this. The question is, "What's the difference between Paintball and LARPing?" Dressing up and using made-up names and speaking specialized terminology and engaging in make-believe combat... They decided there is no difference. (This could just as easily be airsoft or paint markers for regular guns, to be clear.)
- jjk166 3y ago
  At the end of the day there is no clear boundary between simulation for fun and for practice, the real question is what are you simulating. If some people were playing paintball in an accurate mockup of a government building, with one team taking up the positions of government guards and persons of interest, I don't think it's absurd to view that with some suspicion, particularly if there are other reasons to suspect it is more than just a game.
- leereeves 3y ago
  I'd say paintball is like fencing. The actions are real, but the consequences are minimized by the equipment. I don't know much about LARPing but I have the impression that the actions there aren't real, just people saying things like "I strike at thee", "I parry and riposte" while pantomiming in slow motion. Wouldn't it be easy to tell a fencing duel from a LARP swordfight?
  - defrost 3y ago
    Serious LARP'rs make their own swords and chainmail .. the difference between a fencing duel and a LARP swordfight is the shear size of the blades and the weight of the chainmail. * eg: https://greycompany.com.au/ https://greycompany.com.au/ Now billed as "Historical Re-enactment focusing on the Dark Ages and Medieval times" and has been swinging swords and building trebuchets since ~ 1980(ish) at least. * Varies, of course, by LARP groups
  - falcolas 3y ago
    FWIW, compared to real sword fights, fencing (as practiced in the Olympics et.al.) isn’t generally considered to be “real”. Points scored from tapping toes, foils which bend unrealistically, artificially constrained movements, one winner when both stabbed each other milliseconds apart… But to your point, yes, most amateur sports could be boiled down to a form of LARPing given enough twisting.
dmurray 3y ago
The article acknowledges the possibility of people LARPing in a more contemporary context. I find this plausible, too: I can imagine groups of people getting together recreationally and fantasizing about how they're going to overthrow the fascist mayor, or kill all the Jews, or whatever else. With their real guns and tactical gear, because those look cool. With a badass logo, maybe with some skulls in it. But with no intention of ever actually acting out those fantasies.
- defrost 3y ago
  Up until the point when they do something that crosses a line. eg: see youtube's Flattened Earth - The Glorious LARP (2021) Conspiracy Theory Historic Reenactment Metal Band Flattened Earth is Satire
- mikelevins 3y ago
  See, for example, KAOS (Killing as an Organized Sport), also known as Killer or Assassin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin_(game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin_(game)). It’s a multiplayer game in which players LARP as assassins out to kill targets that they receive secretly at the start of the game. The game has rules that describe how to simulate various forms of weapons and tactics (e.g. using a rolled-up sheet of paper as a dagger), and the rules are intended to help make it clear to observers that it’s just a game in which no actual crimes are intended, but it still involves people behaving in ways that could be misinterpreted. I played it some at VCU in the late 1970s. It was fun.

Jensson 3y ago

> I really don't think that the police are going to be a problem for people in fantasy gear, cosplaying, or re-enacting a historical battle. I have never heard of it. But now with these guidelines police has a reason to go after them. Something like: "I just followed these guidelines, it says you are showing terrorist signs and aren't real LARPers". They didn't do that before, but guidelines like these changes behavior and can easily make things worse.

jstarfish 3y ago
You're being histrionic. Nobody is coming for your LotR LARP group. These guidelines are literally an attempt to distinguish actual terrorists from people who insist on pretending to be terrorists. It's as much good faith as you can hope for from the government, considering the domain. None of this applies to you even if you're in the park wearing full Orc battlegear, are belligerent, drunk in public, and urinate on the arresting officer. Here's how low the bar is: > Among violent extremists, there may be online discussions about and guidance in using LARP as an excuse during encounters with law enforcement, Actual LARPers don't need to be reminded to tell cops that they're LARPing. The bar is that fucking low. They'll even accept lorebooks and stats sheets as proof.
text0404 3y ago
What motivation do they have to do this? Are you talking about, like, Civil War re-enactors? Pretty sure the police aren't going to roll up on some dudes in wigs and toy bayonets in a park. Those people usually get permits for that kind of thing anyways. If you're part of a group with a manifesto, ordering weapons and explosives and doing practice drills to take down the US government, then yeah... it's highly likely that the feds are going to pay attention.
- Jensson 3y ago
  > If you're part of a group with a manifesto, ordering weapons and explosives and doing practice drills to take down the US government, then yeah... it's highly likely that the feds are going to pay attention. And in those cases the "I was just LARPing" defense already doesn't work. This document will not help catch criminals since in clear cases they are already caught, all it does is raise more suspicion against genuine LARPing.
  - pixl97 3y ago
    >: will not help catch criminals since in clear cases they are already caught ??? Yea, I can tell you've never actually worked around any real life investigations before. The difficulty with any real life situation is in a large enough group there will be some portion of the 'fakers' that are actually really motivated to commit illegal actions. Even online this issue occurs with forms that mock the stupidity of other groups, flat earthers being a great example. If left unchecked a forum can turn from satire to true believers.

falcolas 3y ago

> But LARPing shouldn't be an excuse for people who want to don real tactical gear and weapons and plan mayhem. Just saw a video talking a bit facetiously about this. The question is, "What's the difference between Paintball and LARPing?" Dressing up and using made-up names and speaking specialized terminology and engaging in make-believe combat... They decided there is no difference. (This could just as easily be airsoft or paint markers for regular guns, to be clear.)

jjk166 3y ago
At the end of the day there is no clear boundary between simulation for fun and for practice, the real question is what are you simulating. If some people were playing paintball in an accurate mockup of a government building, with one team taking up the positions of government guards and persons of interest, I don't think it's absurd to view that with some suspicion, particularly if there are other reasons to suspect it is more than just a game.
leereeves 3y ago
I'd say paintball is like fencing. The actions are real, but the consequences are minimized by the equipment. I don't know much about LARPing but I have the impression that the actions there aren't real, just people saying things like "I strike at thee", "I parry and riposte" while pantomiming in slow motion. Wouldn't it be easy to tell a fencing duel from a LARP swordfight?
- defrost 3y ago
  Serious LARP'rs make their own swords and chainmail .. the difference between a fencing duel and a LARP swordfight is the shear size of the blades and the weight of the chainmail. * eg: https://greycompany.com.au/ https://greycompany.com.au/ Now billed as "Historical Re-enactment focusing on the Dark Ages and Medieval times" and has been swinging swords and building trebuchets since ~ 1980(ish) at least. * Varies, of course, by LARP groups
- falcolas 3y ago
  FWIW, compared to real sword fights, fencing (as practiced in the Olympics et.al.) isn’t generally considered to be “real”. Points scored from tapping toes, foils which bend unrealistically, artificially constrained movements, one winner when both stabbed each other milliseconds apart… But to your point, yes, most amateur sports could be boiled down to a form of LARPing given enough twisting.

dmurray 3y ago

The article acknowledges the possibility of people LARPing in a more contemporary context. I find this plausible, too: I can imagine groups of people getting together recreationally and fantasizing about how they're going to overthrow the fascist mayor, or kill all the Jews, or whatever else. With their real guns and tactical gear, because those look cool. With a badass logo, maybe with some skulls in it. But with no intention of ever actually acting out those fantasies.

defrost 3y ago
Up until the point when they do something that crosses a line. eg: see youtube's Flattened Earth - The Glorious LARP (2021) Conspiracy Theory Historic Reenactment Metal Band Flattened Earth is Satire
mikelevins 3y ago
See, for example, KAOS (Killing as an Organized Sport), also known as Killer or Assassin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin_(game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin_(game)). It’s a multiplayer game in which players LARP as assassins out to kill targets that they receive secretly at the start of the game. The game has rules that describe how to simulate various forms of weapons and tactics (e.g. using a rolled-up sheet of paper as a dagger), and the rules are intended to help make it clear to observers that it’s just a game in which no actual crimes are intended, but it still involves people behaving in ways that could be misinterpreted. I played it some at VCU in the late 1970s. It was fun.