4 ms·

What's would be the purpose of such liberal experiment? I don't see what is there to learn about it. Allowing some entity to establish a government in your land

What's would be the purpose of such liberal experiment? I don't see what is there to learn about it. Allowing some entity to establish a government in your lands just to see what happens doesn't seem like a wise move to me. This would only legitimize their claims to the land and legitimize them as a sovereign state. It's a good way to end up losing this land and creating yet another microstate.

logicalmonster 3y ago
> What's would be the purpose of such liberal experiment? I don't see what is there to learn about it. Not that the only group of people who want to bother nobody else need any justification for living their lives as they see fit, but how else is humanity going to learn about the different ways we can organize society if we don't try them out? It would be phenomenal for humanity if people with ideas outside of the box organized as they saw fit without outside interference and we all get to see what works and what doesn't.
- tail_exchange 3y ago
  Isn't that why we don't have just a single country with a single set of laws? What experiment is being performed in Liberland that cannot be done in other countries that already exist?
  - chromoblob 3y ago
    It is indeed like you say. You are making a hyperbole, but essentially we have a single type of country.
  - fauigerzigerk 3y ago
    >Isn't that why we don't have just a single country with a single set of laws? Historically this is not the reason. And as a justification for continuing to have many countries it would only be convincing if people were free to choose which "experiment" to join or start. The reality is, we are all guinea pigs that get thrown into some random country where some experiment has already started and we have no right opt out. If this is indeed someone's experiment, I would say it's highly unethical :)
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    > What experiment is being performed in Liberland that cannot be done in other countries that already exist? Existing countries are captured by various interest groups who use their control over the government to their benefit. In a democracy this is generally various industries or government factions that control a large voting bloc or resources politicians need like campaign contributions. In a non-democracy the existing rulers want to remain in power and continue to rule as they see fit. If the experiment you want to run is a country with an extremely limited government, you would either need a stable country where that is already the case (not currently available), or a way to overcome the entrenched interests in some existing country (good luck), or you need a new country not already beleaguered by entrenched interests.
- LAC-Tech 3y ago
  [flagged]
- Daishiman 3y ago
  People relearning Hobbes and the fact that sovereign claims need power to be enforced, news at 11.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
wodenokoto 3y ago
> Allowing some entity to establish a government in your lands just to see what happens doesn't seem like a wise move to me. It is land that Croatia very actively considers someone elses land. That is why Liberland was established there in the first place. Two countries are arguing "not mine, its yours" about a plot of land. If anything, this can be used against Croatia to argue that it is in fact Croatian territory
- lolinder 3y ago
  The reason why both countries refuse to claim ownership is actually really interesting: both sides agree that the Danube should be considered the border, but the Danube has changed course over the centuries in a way that left a lot more land on the east than was there before. Naturally, that means that Croatia insists on using the historical path of the Danube, while Serbia insists on the modern one. For either side to claim the land on the west of the current Danube would be to cede the larger quantity of land to the east.
- josefx 3y ago
  > It is land that Croatia very actively considers someone elses land. It doesn't consider the land to be "someone elses land" it considers the Serbian definition of the shared border faulty. Letting people that cite the Serbian definition of the border settle there is the last thing they want, since it actively undermines their own definition of where the border between it and Serbia should be over its entire length.
  - lolinder 3y ago
    Liberland doesn't cite the Serbian definition of the border, they accept both definitions at once. If either definition were given preference there would be no terra nullius. If Croatia were serious about their border claims then they should see Liberland as strictly Serbia's problem. Edit: I suppose that actually allowing an independent state to settle there would ruin their chances of ever trading it with Serbia for the eastern land, but the chances of that are slim to none anyway.
    - 3y ago
helpfulContrib 3y ago
There are great artistic and cultural reasons to let this happen. After all, look what happened with Kugelmugel - another of these liberal experiments: https://theculturetrip.com/europe/austria/articles/kugelmugel-the-micronation-in-viennas-prater-park https://theculturetrip.com/europe/austria/articles/kugelmuge... Spoiler: the bigger states always win.
- acadapter 3y ago
  Denmark's Christiania had quite a long time of "hippie semi-anarchy", but it was formally reintegrated into society about 10 years ago. However, this was a product of the Boomer generation, when they were young. It might not be possible in today's more authoritarian world.

logicalmonster 3y ago

> What's would be the purpose of such liberal experiment? I don't see what is there to learn about it. Not that the only group of people who want to bother nobody else need any justification for living their lives as they see fit, but how else is humanity going to learn about the different ways we can organize society if we don't try them out? It would be phenomenal for humanity if people with ideas outside of the box organized as they saw fit without outside interference and we all get to see what works and what doesn't.

tail_exchange 3y ago
Isn't that why we don't have just a single country with a single set of laws? What experiment is being performed in Liberland that cannot be done in other countries that already exist?
- chromoblob 3y ago
  It is indeed like you say. You are making a hyperbole, but essentially we have a single type of country.
- fauigerzigerk 3y ago
  >Isn't that why we don't have just a single country with a single set of laws? Historically this is not the reason. And as a justification for continuing to have many countries it would only be convincing if people were free to choose which "experiment" to join or start. The reality is, we are all guinea pigs that get thrown into some random country where some experiment has already started and we have no right opt out. If this is indeed someone's experiment, I would say it's highly unethical :)
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  > What experiment is being performed in Liberland that cannot be done in other countries that already exist? Existing countries are captured by various interest groups who use their control over the government to their benefit. In a democracy this is generally various industries or government factions that control a large voting bloc or resources politicians need like campaign contributions. In a non-democracy the existing rulers want to remain in power and continue to rule as they see fit. If the experiment you want to run is a country with an extremely limited government, you would either need a stable country where that is already the case (not currently available), or a way to overcome the entrenched interests in some existing country (good luck), or you need a new country not already beleaguered by entrenched interests.
LAC-Tech 3y ago
[flagged]
Daishiman 3y ago
People relearning Hobbes and the fact that sovereign claims need power to be enforced, news at 11.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

wodenokoto 3y ago

> Allowing some entity to establish a government in your lands just to see what happens doesn't seem like a wise move to me. It is land that Croatia very actively considers someone elses land. That is why Liberland was established there in the first place. Two countries are arguing "not mine, its yours" about a plot of land. If anything, this can be used against Croatia to argue that it is in fact Croatian territory

lolinder 3y ago
The reason why both countries refuse to claim ownership is actually really interesting: both sides agree that the Danube should be considered the border, but the Danube has changed course over the centuries in a way that left a lot more land on the east than was there before. Naturally, that means that Croatia insists on using the historical path of the Danube, while Serbia insists on the modern one. For either side to claim the land on the west of the current Danube would be to cede the larger quantity of land to the east.
josefx 3y ago
> It is land that Croatia very actively considers someone elses land. It doesn't consider the land to be "someone elses land" it considers the Serbian definition of the shared border faulty. Letting people that cite the Serbian definition of the border settle there is the last thing they want, since it actively undermines their own definition of where the border between it and Serbia should be over its entire length.
- lolinder 3y ago
  Liberland doesn't cite the Serbian definition of the border, they accept both definitions at once. If either definition were given preference there would be no terra nullius. If Croatia were serious about their border claims then they should see Liberland as strictly Serbia's problem. Edit: I suppose that actually allowing an independent state to settle there would ruin their chances of ever trading it with Serbia for the eastern land, but the chances of that are slim to none anyway.
  - 3y ago

helpfulContrib 3y ago

There are great artistic and cultural reasons to let this happen. After all, look what happened with Kugelmugel - another of these liberal experiments: https://theculturetrip.com/europe/austria/articles/kugelmugel-the-micronation-in-viennas-prater-park https://theculturetrip.com/europe/austria/articles/kugelmuge... Spoiler: the bigger states always win.

acadapter 3y ago
Denmark's Christiania had quite a long time of "hippie semi-anarchy", but it was formally reintegrated into society about 10 years ago. However, this was a product of the Boomer generation, when they were young. It might not be possible in today's more authoritarian world.