6 ms·

Labelling soya foods as ultra-processed is unhelpful

20 points by edward 3y ago

throwaway2990 3y ago
Unsure why it’s unhelpful. Soy milk so heavily processed and is so disgusting by itself they add so much shit to make it taste semi decent that it literally becomes bad for you. Just like skim/low fat milk is bad.
- vostok 3y ago
  I highly recommend store brand soy milk, and tofu for that matter, if it's available in your area. It shouldn't require any additional ingredients to tatse good.
  - throwaway2990 3y ago
    Doesn’t matter where you buy soy milk. If it’s 100% national it’s disgusting. Most of what you buy in the super markets have added sugar. Tofu has flavour. You have to remember soy milk is basically the left over shit from making tofu. All the healthy shit is left in the pulp including the flavour.
    - myshpa 3y ago
      > You have to remember soy milk is basically the left over shit from making tofu. All the healthy shit is left in the pulp including the flavour. Not true. First, you make soy milk by rehydrating soybeans, blending them with water, cooking the mixture, and then straining it. The remains are called okara. If you add a coagulant to the milk and cook it further, you'll get tofu curds, from which tofu is made. The remaining liquid is whey. > Tofu has flavour Flavour of raw tofu depends on the type of coagulant used. > If it’s 100% national it’s disgusting. Most of what you buy in the super markets have added sugar. Not all 100% natural soy milk is considered distasteful by everyone; taste is subjective. Sugar is added for people who don't like the taste of a natural plant based milk - as a taste enhancement to make these milks taste sweeter and more palatable, akin to the naturally occurring lactose (sugar) in cow's milk. Sugar can improve the body, texture, and mouthfeel of plant-based milks, making them feel richer or creamier. Not all plant-based milks contain added sugars. Many brands offer "unsweetened" versions for those who prefer no added sugar or are monitoring their sugar intake.
      - throwaway2990 3y ago
        > Not all 100% natural soy milk is considered distasteful by everyone; taste is subjective. Obviously or they wouldn’t sell it. Doesn’t change the fact majority of it has added sugar and is unhealthy and worse than full cream milk.
        myshpa 3y ago
        > and is unhealthy and worse than full cream milk Dairy is scary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI Derived from a bovine's udder, cow milk is essentially a white, viscous secretion containing fats, hormones, bioaccumulated pesticides and herbicides, and sometimes pus and blood from infected teats, all filtered through a mammary gland that often comes into contact with dirt and feces during the extraction process. Cow milk, routinely touted as a wholesome beverage, can legally contain up to 400 million somatic cells (often referred to as pus) per milliliter in the U.S., and traces of blood, all originating from inflamed and possibly infected bovine udders, making one wonder about the purity of the seemingly innocent white liquid. Cow's milk also naturally contains hormones, including Insulin-like Growth Factor-1, estrogens, progesterone, prolactin, and oxytocin; also some cows receive artificial hormones like rBST to enhance production; when consumed regularly, those hormones may impact the growth and reproductive functions of consumers. In the relentless cycle of dairy production, cows endure forced impregnation and a shortened lifespan — typically 5 years instead of the potential 25+. The record lifespan for a cow is 48 years. Newborn males are typically culled immediately, while females are separated from their mothers shortly after birth, crying for each other usually for weeks. And we haven't addressed the land needs and environmental impact of dairy production. This includes deforestation for pastures, high water use, greenhouse gas emissions from cows, runoff of pesticides and fertilizers polluting water, and contributions to soil degradation and biodiversity loss. But sure, soy mik is worse ;)
        throwaway2990 3y ago
        lol in the US. The 2 places to avoid food from is the US and China. I would never drink milk from America. I mean this is the same country that makes all its bread with sugar! LOL.
A_Duck 3y ago
Context: Alpro is the soy products arm of a $17bn food corporation
_jplc 3y ago
Unhelpful for Alpro for sure
DarkNova6 3y ago
This article is a big nothing burger. Of course a foundation with the goal to "drive the transition to more healthful plant-based diets for human and planetary health. "[0] is against labeling highly-processed plant based food as "highly processed". Quote: > In an era of urgency to move populations towards more environmentally and nutritionally beneficial plant-based diets, making a simple switch to soya meat replacements and milk alternatives is a realistic and easy dietary change for most consumers to achieve As far as I'm concerned, almost all highly-processed food "alternatives" consist of abundantly cheap ingredients (mostly based on soy, rice or corn), sold at a price of labor intense organic products. I think this is just profit driven greenwashing, nothing more. [0] https://www.alprofoundation.org/about https://www.alprofoundation.org/about
- kar1181 3y ago
  Ultra processed is the end result of mckinsification of our food chain.
  - olalonde 3y ago
    What is mckinsification?
    - uoaei 3y ago
      Is it so hard to infer? McKinsey, consulting firm famous worldwide for its ruthless "optimization" of all industries often at the expense of consumers in favor of realizing short-term gains that look good to C-suite and shareholders, causes shifts in business practices both directly in its involvement as well as indirectly by inspiring copycat competitive tactics.
      - xenocratus 3y ago
        Yes, it is hard to infer for someone who's never heard of McKinsey. Assuming everyone MUST've heard is in poor taste. As far as I'm aware, there's no curriculum necessary for users of this site.
kar1181 3y ago
My son is allergic to soya - that was a catalyst for us looking into the supply chain of what we buy and eat and if there is one profound change above all is the fact soy is in -everything- and if not in the product itself then certain in the bulk of the food stuffs own food chain. Can’t even buy bread now without it being bulked out with soya flour …
- ldng 3y ago
  I'm guessing american. Move out from US ? (Only half joking)
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    It may not be the case for bread, but here in France there’s soy in many products, even those where you wouldn’t expect it.
  - kar1181 3y ago
    We did move out of the US and funnily enough food (bread especially - we lived in the south) was part of the reason. However since our return to the UK the over processing of what were simple foods has occurred also. It seems to have dramatically accelerated post pandemic/brexit. We eventually moved somewhere where there’s a traditional baker walking distance away but if we have to go to a supermarket Sainsbury’s carry just two specialty brands soy free now the major brands hocks and warburtons and Sainsbury’s own branded bread all have soya flour. I think in breads case it does improve the softness and protein content but it’s really unnecessary and mainly in there as it shaves cost.
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  > Can’t even buy bread now without it being bulked out with soya flour … I found this somewhat disturbing and you appear to be mostly correct. I did find a few breads that don't list soy flour as an ingredient, mostly breads that specifically advertise a certain material like "100% whole wheat" or "Jewish Rye". (Oddly, the Jewish Rye didn't have soy flour, but it also didn't seem especially concerned about being a rye bread - it was made primarily of wheat.) Thinking it over, I find it pretty unlikely that the soy flour is really hurting anything (people allergic to soy excepted), but it still feels wrong and I don't get the reasoning. The soy flour is always in the "2% or less" section of the ingredients, and even if it's cheaper than wheat flour, you could save even more money by just not including it at all. Boudin Sourdough contains no soy while also not emphasizing that it's made from a weird material. It appears to be a mixture of wheat and barley: https://richmedia.ca-richimage.com/ImageDelivery/imageService?profileId=12028466&id=1346460&recipeId=715 https://richmedia.ca-richimage.com/ImageDelivery/imageServic...
nemo44x 3y ago
Not enough people want to buy their food so they’ve blamed the truthful labeling of their food and want to be able to lie by omission on their labeling. They believe they should be allowed to lie because of a smaller energy cost. It takes less energy for me to not pay my mortgage. Let’s see how that works out.
axioms_End 3y ago
They mention that "nearly all" alternatives are marked as ultraprocessed, which is kinda meaningful. Tofu and tempeh can be easily made in home environment, basic soy milk (water + soy) also, so alternatives that stay ultraprocessed are either modified in other ways (added sweeteners, etc) or are ready meals (like burgers and breaded cutlets). And difference in nutritional values between those categories is rather stark.
- isodev 3y ago
  What I don’t get though is why ultra-processed means bad even if the ingredients are what you expect to find inside. In case of tofu, even if you manage to invest the time to make it at home, you still need to marinate it so it tastes like something (adding all kinds of things here)… and then fry/cook it into a meal. Maybe you control everything that goes into it (“ultra processed by hand”?), but not in a very sustainable approach in terms of water and energy that goes into it.
Schattenbaer 3y ago
Not soya related, so maybe off topic, but what is the purpose of the "This website is for healthcare professionals only" popup that is displayed on first visit? I can't figure out whether they are trying to adjust how credible the site appears / keep the broad public from looking at the site, or something else.
- joeframbach 3y ago
  I assumed it translated to something like, "this site makes dubious health claims that we legally are not allowed to say to consumers, but we can skirt the law by saying it's not for consumers."
malfist 3y ago
Maker of ultra processed food complains about being labeled as a maker of ultra processed food. News at 11. But seriously thinking of more adulterated food than plant based meat and dairy substances is hard. And it's not like they're healthier than the unprocessed version. Tofu is not better for you than chicken breast
- sgt 3y ago
  News at 11 won't mean anything to the generations used to streaming only.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    News at 11 means nothing outside of the US of A anyway, it's one of those phrases you pick up hanging out on the Internet...
Ekaros 3y ago
I think this is great example that all big industries do marketing. It is just not the "evil" big tobacco, meat, dairy, oil and so on... Clearly also the alternatives go for it. Maybe the whole processed food labelling is unhelpful also in other products? Or maybe there is point in targeting some use of things like soya in certain ways...
- uoaei 3y ago
  I mean, obviously. Narratives are how markets work. Money itself is a simple narrative with complex dynamics. I rather like https://www.epsilontheory.com/ https://www.epsilontheory.com/ for exploring markets from this perspective.
MrThoughtful 3y ago
As a vegan who also does weightlifting, I am happy that all studies I found so far came to the conclusion that soy based protein intake provides the same benefits to muscle growth as meat based protein intake. Here is one of the more recent meta studies: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2161831322000370 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S216183132... There often seems to be some confusion about this. People often expect that vegan diet makes it harder to grow muscles. While all studies I found show the opposite.
- Ensorceled 3y ago
  Do you have links to studies that show “the opposite”?
jw14 3y ago
I've always felt worrying whether foods are "processed" was to focus on the wrong metric. It also sounds like some kind of Luddite moral judgment when I hear people talk about it.
- Ensorceled 3y ago
  It’s a pretty good rule of thumb, which is why this paper is tackling “we shouldn’t be in the category” rather than “this isn’t a useful metric”.
sgu999 3y ago
Dairy milk straight of a cow doesn't look at all like what we can buy in a supermarket, and home made soya milk is very easy to do. I wouldn't bet on which one is the most "processed" by the industry. Alpro is obviously doing its share of lobbying, but here in France a law was passed to forbid the term "milk" for plant based milk. Soya "milk" isn't allowed on labels for instance. All across Asia everyone knows what it is, us French are apparently too dumb and would be confused. Almond "milk" is ok but only for cosmetics, so is coconut milk I believe. All this is just the result of intense lobbying and, likely, corruption.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  > but here in France a law was passed to forbid the term "milk" for plant based milk. Soya "milk" isn't allowed on labels anymore for instance. Even though all across Asia everyone knows what it is, us French are apparently too dumb and would be confused. Good. I'm all for such laws. Soya "milk" isn't "milk" as the term has been culturally understood for millennia. It's not that people are dumb, but rather that words have connotations, and plenty of people, who don't happen to be nerds of fields adjacent to chemistry or dietetics, will assume that "soy milk" is like normal milk because it's called "soy milk". Same stuff with juices and other foodstuff types. And this stuff has consequences, often health consequences, especially for innocent people like children being fed wrong stuff by confused parents and grandparents (the latter you should excuse for not being able to keep up with the fast-changing landscape of marketing bullshit). Or, looking from the opposite end - the companies introducing soy "milk" could've named it any way they wanted. They chose to call it "milk" to confuse customers. Well, fuck those companies if you ask me.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    > It's not that people are dumb Are you sure? - Almond Milk - Over 1,000 years (Middle Ages) - Soy Milk - Over 2,000 years (China) - Rice Milk - Centuries (Asia) - Coconut Milk - Millennia (Southeast Asia) - Oat Milk - Centuries (Nordic countries) - Hemp Milk - Late 20th and 21st century - Cashew Milk - Late 20th century onwards - Poppy Seed Milk - Centuries (Eastern Europe) - Tigernut Milk - Ancient Egypt to present (Spain) - Walnut Milk - Consumed for centuries
isodev 3y ago
I think the transition to plant based and artificially grown food sources will take some time and just labelling on the level of processing doesn’t seem very informative. Just because some food is organic, doesn’t mean it’s healthy, sufficient and sustainable to grow and eat. These “NOVA” labels feel like a response from meat/farmer organisations to try and keep the status quo for a while longer. Of course plant based food requires processing because we want snacks to come looking as cheese, yoghurt, ham and steaks - it takes some doing to make soya beans look and taste the same way. So maybe there are degrees of processing (within plant based foods) that also create a range of what’s ok to eat and what’s been prepared in a way that’s unhealthy or unsustainable.
rgrieselhuber 3y ago
Basically a whine-fest. A great book to read is Deep Nutrition.

20 points by edward 3y ago

Unsure why it’s unhelpful. Soy milk so heavily processed and is so disgusting by itself they add so much shit to make it taste semi decent that it literally becomes bad for you. Just like skim/low fat milk is bad.

vostok 3y ago
I highly recommend store brand soy milk, and tofu for that matter, if it's available in your area. It shouldn't require any additional ingredients to tatse good.
- throwaway2990 3y ago
  Doesn’t matter where you buy soy milk. If it’s 100% national it’s disgusting. Most of what you buy in the super markets have added sugar. Tofu has flavour. You have to remember soy milk is basically the left over shit from making tofu. All the healthy shit is left in the pulp including the flavour.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    > You have to remember soy milk is basically the left over shit from making tofu. All the healthy shit is left in the pulp including the flavour. Not true. First, you make soy milk by rehydrating soybeans, blending them with water, cooking the mixture, and then straining it. The remains are called okara. If you add a coagulant to the milk and cook it further, you'll get tofu curds, from which tofu is made. The remaining liquid is whey. > Tofu has flavour Flavour of raw tofu depends on the type of coagulant used. > If it’s 100% national it’s disgusting. Most of what you buy in the super markets have added sugar. Not all 100% natural soy milk is considered distasteful by everyone; taste is subjective. Sugar is added for people who don't like the taste of a natural plant based milk - as a taste enhancement to make these milks taste sweeter and more palatable, akin to the naturally occurring lactose (sugar) in cow's milk. Sugar can improve the body, texture, and mouthfeel of plant-based milks, making them feel richer or creamier. Not all plant-based milks contain added sugars. Many brands offer "unsweetened" versions for those who prefer no added sugar or are monitoring their sugar intake.
    - throwaway2990 3y ago
      > Not all 100% natural soy milk is considered distasteful by everyone; taste is subjective. Obviously or they wouldn’t sell it. Doesn’t change the fact majority of it has added sugar and is unhealthy and worse than full cream milk.
      - myshpa 3y ago
        > and is unhealthy and worse than full cream milk Dairy is scary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI Derived from a bovine's udder, cow milk is essentially a white, viscous secretion containing fats, hormones, bioaccumulated pesticides and herbicides, and sometimes pus and blood from infected teats, all filtered through a mammary gland that often comes into contact with dirt and feces during the extraction process. Cow milk, routinely touted as a wholesome beverage, can legally contain up to 400 million somatic cells (often referred to as pus) per milliliter in the U.S., and traces of blood, all originating from inflamed and possibly infected bovine udders, making one wonder about the purity of the seemingly innocent white liquid. Cow's milk also naturally contains hormones, including Insulin-like Growth Factor-1, estrogens, progesterone, prolactin, and oxytocin; also some cows receive artificial hormones like rBST to enhance production; when consumed regularly, those hormones may impact the growth and reproductive functions of consumers. In the relentless cycle of dairy production, cows endure forced impregnation and a shortened lifespan — typically 5 years instead of the potential 25+. The record lifespan for a cow is 48 years. Newborn males are typically culled immediately, while females are separated from their mothers shortly after birth, crying for each other usually for weeks. And we haven't addressed the land needs and environmental impact of dairy production. This includes deforestation for pastures, high water use, greenhouse gas emissions from cows, runoff of pesticides and fertilizers polluting water, and contributions to soil degradation and biodiversity loss. But sure, soy mik is worse ;)
        throwaway2990 3y ago
        lol in the US. The 2 places to avoid food from is the US and China. I would never drink milk from America. I mean this is the same country that makes all its bread with sugar! LOL.

A_Duck 3y ago

Context: Alpro is the soy products arm of a $17bn food corporation

_jplc 3y ago

Unhelpful for Alpro for sure

DarkNova6 3y ago

This article is a big nothing burger. Of course a foundation with the goal to "drive the transition to more healthful plant-based diets for human and planetary health. "[0] is against labeling highly-processed plant based food as "highly processed". Quote: > In an era of urgency to move populations towards more environmentally and nutritionally beneficial plant-based diets, making a simple switch to soya meat replacements and milk alternatives is a realistic and easy dietary change for most consumers to achieve As far as I'm concerned, almost all highly-processed food "alternatives" consist of abundantly cheap ingredients (mostly based on soy, rice or corn), sold at a price of labor intense organic products. I think this is just profit driven greenwashing, nothing more. [0] https://www.alprofoundation.org/about https://www.alprofoundation.org/about

kar1181 3y ago
Ultra processed is the end result of mckinsification of our food chain.
- olalonde 3y ago
  What is mckinsification?
  - uoaei 3y ago
    Is it so hard to infer? McKinsey, consulting firm famous worldwide for its ruthless "optimization" of all industries often at the expense of consumers in favor of realizing short-term gains that look good to C-suite and shareholders, causes shifts in business practices both directly in its involvement as well as indirectly by inspiring copycat competitive tactics.
    - xenocratus 3y ago
      Yes, it is hard to infer for someone who's never heard of McKinsey. Assuming everyone MUST've heard is in poor taste. As far as I'm aware, there's no curriculum necessary for users of this site.

kar1181 3y ago

My son is allergic to soya - that was a catalyst for us looking into the supply chain of what we buy and eat and if there is one profound change above all is the fact soy is in -everything- and if not in the product itself then certain in the bulk of the food stuffs own food chain. Can’t even buy bread now without it being bulked out with soya flour …

ldng 3y ago
I'm guessing american. Move out from US ? (Only half joking)
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  It may not be the case for bread, but here in France there’s soy in many products, even those where you wouldn’t expect it.
- kar1181 3y ago
  We did move out of the US and funnily enough food (bread especially - we lived in the south) was part of the reason. However since our return to the UK the over processing of what were simple foods has occurred also. It seems to have dramatically accelerated post pandemic/brexit. We eventually moved somewhere where there’s a traditional baker walking distance away but if we have to go to a supermarket Sainsbury’s carry just two specialty brands soy free now the major brands hocks and warburtons and Sainsbury’s own branded bread all have soya flour. I think in breads case it does improve the softness and protein content but it’s really unnecessary and mainly in there as it shaves cost.
thaumasiotes 3y ago
> Can’t even buy bread now without it being bulked out with soya flour … I found this somewhat disturbing and you appear to be mostly correct. I did find a few breads that don't list soy flour as an ingredient, mostly breads that specifically advertise a certain material like "100% whole wheat" or "Jewish Rye". (Oddly, the Jewish Rye didn't have soy flour, but it also didn't seem especially concerned about being a rye bread - it was made primarily of wheat.) Thinking it over, I find it pretty unlikely that the soy flour is really hurting anything (people allergic to soy excepted), but it still feels wrong and I don't get the reasoning. The soy flour is always in the "2% or less" section of the ingredients, and even if it's cheaper than wheat flour, you could save even more money by just not including it at all. Boudin Sourdough contains no soy while also not emphasizing that it's made from a weird material. It appears to be a mixture of wheat and barley: https://richmedia.ca-richimage.com/ImageDelivery/imageService?profileId=12028466&id=1346460&recipeId=715 https://richmedia.ca-richimage.com/ImageDelivery/imageServic...

nemo44x 3y ago

Not enough people want to buy their food so they’ve blamed the truthful labeling of their food and want to be able to lie by omission on their labeling. They believe they should be allowed to lie because of a smaller energy cost. It takes less energy for me to not pay my mortgage. Let’s see how that works out.

axioms_End 3y ago

They mention that "nearly all" alternatives are marked as ultraprocessed, which is kinda meaningful. Tofu and tempeh can be easily made in home environment, basic soy milk (water + soy) also, so alternatives that stay ultraprocessed are either modified in other ways (added sweeteners, etc) or are ready meals (like burgers and breaded cutlets). And difference in nutritional values between those categories is rather stark.

isodev 3y ago
What I don’t get though is why ultra-processed means bad even if the ingredients are what you expect to find inside. In case of tofu, even if you manage to invest the time to make it at home, you still need to marinate it so it tastes like something (adding all kinds of things here)… and then fry/cook it into a meal. Maybe you control everything that goes into it (“ultra processed by hand”?), but not in a very sustainable approach in terms of water and energy that goes into it.

Schattenbaer 3y ago

Not soya related, so maybe off topic, but what is the purpose of the "This website is for healthcare professionals only" popup that is displayed on first visit? I can't figure out whether they are trying to adjust how credible the site appears / keep the broad public from looking at the site, or something else.

joeframbach 3y ago
I assumed it translated to something like, "this site makes dubious health claims that we legally are not allowed to say to consumers, but we can skirt the law by saying it's not for consumers."

malfist 3y ago

Maker of ultra processed food complains about being labeled as a maker of ultra processed food. News at 11. But seriously thinking of more adulterated food than plant based meat and dairy substances is hard. And it's not like they're healthier than the unprocessed version. Tofu is not better for you than chicken breast

sgt 3y ago
News at 11 won't mean anything to the generations used to streaming only.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  News at 11 means nothing outside of the US of A anyway, it's one of those phrases you pick up hanging out on the Internet...

Ekaros 3y ago

I think this is great example that all big industries do marketing. It is just not the "evil" big tobacco, meat, dairy, oil and so on... Clearly also the alternatives go for it. Maybe the whole processed food labelling is unhelpful also in other products? Or maybe there is point in targeting some use of things like soya in certain ways...

uoaei 3y ago
I mean, obviously. Narratives are how markets work. Money itself is a simple narrative with complex dynamics. I rather like https://www.epsilontheory.com/ https://www.epsilontheory.com/ for exploring markets from this perspective.

MrThoughtful 3y ago

As a vegan who also does weightlifting, I am happy that all studies I found so far came to the conclusion that soy based protein intake provides the same benefits to muscle growth as meat based protein intake. Here is one of the more recent meta studies: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2161831322000370 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S216183132... There often seems to be some confusion about this. People often expect that vegan diet makes it harder to grow muscles. While all studies I found show the opposite.

Ensorceled 3y ago
Do you have links to studies that show “the opposite”?

jw14 3y ago

I've always felt worrying whether foods are "processed" was to focus on the wrong metric. It also sounds like some kind of Luddite moral judgment when I hear people talk about it.

Ensorceled 3y ago
It’s a pretty good rule of thumb, which is why this paper is tackling “we shouldn’t be in the category” rather than “this isn’t a useful metric”.

sgu999 3y ago

Dairy milk straight of a cow doesn't look at all like what we can buy in a supermarket, and home made soya milk is very easy to do. I wouldn't bet on which one is the most "processed" by the industry. Alpro is obviously doing its share of lobbying, but here in France a law was passed to forbid the term "milk" for plant based milk. Soya "milk" isn't allowed on labels for instance. All across Asia everyone knows what it is, us French are apparently too dumb and would be confused. Almond "milk" is ok but only for cosmetics, so is coconut milk I believe. All this is just the result of intense lobbying and, likely, corruption.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
> but here in France a law was passed to forbid the term "milk" for plant based milk. Soya "milk" isn't allowed on labels anymore for instance. Even though all across Asia everyone knows what it is, us French are apparently too dumb and would be confused. Good. I'm all for such laws. Soya "milk" isn't "milk" as the term has been culturally understood for millennia. It's not that people are dumb, but rather that words have connotations, and plenty of people, who don't happen to be nerds of fields adjacent to chemistry or dietetics, will assume that "soy milk" is like normal milk because it's called "soy milk". Same stuff with juices and other foodstuff types. And this stuff has consequences, often health consequences, especially for innocent people like children being fed wrong stuff by confused parents and grandparents (the latter you should excuse for not being able to keep up with the fast-changing landscape of marketing bullshit). Or, looking from the opposite end - the companies introducing soy "milk" could've named it any way they wanted. They chose to call it "milk" to confuse customers. Well, fuck those companies if you ask me.
- myshpa 3y ago
  > It's not that people are dumb Are you sure? - Almond Milk - Over 1,000 years (Middle Ages) - Soy Milk - Over 2,000 years (China) - Rice Milk - Centuries (Asia) - Coconut Milk - Millennia (Southeast Asia) - Oat Milk - Centuries (Nordic countries) - Hemp Milk - Late 20th and 21st century - Cashew Milk - Late 20th century onwards - Poppy Seed Milk - Centuries (Eastern Europe) - Tigernut Milk - Ancient Egypt to present (Spain) - Walnut Milk - Consumed for centuries

isodev 3y ago

I think the transition to plant based and artificially grown food sources will take some time and just labelling on the level of processing doesn’t seem very informative. Just because some food is organic, doesn’t mean it’s healthy, sufficient and sustainable to grow and eat. These “NOVA” labels feel like a response from meat/farmer organisations to try and keep the status quo for a while longer. Of course plant based food requires processing because we want snacks to come looking as cheese, yoghurt, ham and steaks - it takes some doing to make soya beans look and taste the same way. So maybe there are degrees of processing (within plant based foods) that also create a range of what’s ok to eat and what’s been prepared in a way that’s unhealthy or unsustainable.

rgrieselhuber 3y ago

Basically a whine-fest. A great book to read is Deep Nutrition.