4 ms·

> I think many users agree MS has been on a downward slope since XP and 7. =) I think it is worth discussing the counter arguement. My team supported Windows

> I think many users agree MS has been on a downward slope since XP and 7. =) I think it is worth discussing the counter arguement. My team supported Windows from XP to Windows 10. I continued to be staggered at the backwards compatibility of it. I remember having an ERP client that was written in VB6, and nobody thought it would run on 7, but it did. Everyone assumed it was obvious it wouldn't run on 10...but it did... with less RAM usage and it was a bit snappier. Same with the ancient copies of WordPerfect and Photoshop (old enough that they came in a box). I had a mixed fleet of machines from very old to very new and Windows 10 ran on all of them. I bet it would run on this guys P4 just fine. That is extraordinary isn't it? MS have a current commercial OS that will run on 30 year old hardware! Before we criticise MS too much, let us compare that to other commercial providers...like Apple for instance. How much of your 1990's software runs on the last gen Intel Macs even? Answer is...none, isn't it?

thfuran 3y ago
>That is extraordinary isn't it? MS have a current commercial OS that will run on 30 year old hardware! Not anymore. Windows 11 won't run on my ~4 year old laptop.
- jimnotgym 3y ago
  Windows 10 is still current in any real sense of the word. You can 'downgrade' anything to Windows 10 if you want.
- Joel_Mckay 3y ago
  Yeah, a lot of users installed the early Win11 fine, than lost legacy desktop registry flag support, and the missing TPM overlay screen spam this year. If you game, than YMMV on the current MS OS. Now I have to figure out how to get Steams Cuphead to run under Linux. =)
  - wolletd 3y ago
    According to ProtonDB, you just launch it: https://www.protondb.com/app/268910 https://www.protondb.com/app/268910 I haven't had a Windows for Gaming in 10 years. The first seven years of that, I haven't played many games. However, CS:GO, Factorio, Civilization and Stardew Valley, among others, all had native Linux support and I wasn't bored. Then the Steam Deck and Proton came. I ticked a box in Steam settings to not restrict "Steam Play" to verified games, installed a Windows game and started it. It just worked. When Cyberpunk 2077 came out, Proton was updated in time and I launched Cyberpunk 2077, a demanding modern game, in my Linux Steam Client as if it was nothing special. It's three years later and I'm still thrilled. You bascially don't have to care anymore. I still take a look into ProtonDB before buying a game, but I can't remember the last time it wasn't working (excluding Anti Cheat-Stuff for Multiplayer, but even that is being worked on).
    - Joel_Mckay 3y ago
      Thanks, I agree Steam has seen the light, and I hope they keep focused on improving fun stuff. Also, Classic FreeCIV on the web looks like fun too, definitely have to find a weekend for a round. The Anti-cheat stuff is unfortunately a necessity for multiplayer games, as even Pokemon GO PvP cheats lamed up the game. lol Cheers =)
      - wolletd 3y ago
        Oh, I didn't want to critique Anti-cheat for existing and not properly working (yet) in Proton. It's software that tries to validate the environment the game is running in and is suddenly confronted with "wait, thats not a Windows system at all". And as you already argued, just ditching Anti-cheat is not an option. So they either ignore Linux/Proton altogether or have to start actually implementing anti-cheat for a Linux/Proton environment. Even if they go with the second option (as e.g. EAC is, iirc), it simply takes time to implement.
        Joel_Mckay 3y ago
        Someone needs to add a lag-switcher Nerf feature on all platforms. They would make serious coin. =)
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  Windows 11 will run on the same hardware as Windows 10 if the hardware checks in the installer are worked around.
  - Joel_Mckay 3y ago
    Sure, but most users don't know these tricks, and MS is actively neutering workarounds each update. =)
Joel_Mckay 3y ago
Nope, MS has the worst competitor imaginable... themselves. =) People are going to compare the new with the old... every release. Modern MS is getting well deserved criticism, because we all know they are better than a GUI concept 1990s Apple Steve Jobs was actually recorded ridiculing in an interview. Win10 SSD support was good, and is the last version of windows in my opinion. Win11 has done too many silly things to trust in production environments. =)
- jimnotgym 3y ago
  then don't trust it in production. Windows 10 is still current.
sambazi 3y ago
> MS have a current commercial OS that will run on 30 year old hardware! i586 support was dropped by major linux distros some time ago, i somewhat doubt that w10 will run on something pre-pentium and w11 won't even install on my ~5y old dell laptop
- jimnotgym 3y ago
  Pentium was launched 30 years ago according to Wikipedia. I know for sure I have run Windows 10 on a P4 (22 years old) and I think I have run it on P2 (27 years old), but it has been a while. Windows 11 I am bundling with Vista, Windows 8, etc. I'm skipping this one thanks.
bombcar 3y ago
You get a weird situation where very old software runs fine on the latest OS - and of course very new software works fine, but somewhere in the middle you get things that were removed (often software works fine, but the installer won't run because it's WIN16).

thfuran 3y ago

>That is extraordinary isn't it? MS have a current commercial OS that will run on 30 year old hardware! Not anymore. Windows 11 won't run on my ~4 year old laptop.

jimnotgym 3y ago
Windows 10 is still current in any real sense of the word. You can 'downgrade' anything to Windows 10 if you want.
Joel_Mckay 3y ago
Yeah, a lot of users installed the early Win11 fine, than lost legacy desktop registry flag support, and the missing TPM overlay screen spam this year. If you game, than YMMV on the current MS OS. Now I have to figure out how to get Steams Cuphead to run under Linux. =)
- wolletd 3y ago
  According to ProtonDB, you just launch it: https://www.protondb.com/app/268910 https://www.protondb.com/app/268910 I haven't had a Windows for Gaming in 10 years. The first seven years of that, I haven't played many games. However, CS:GO, Factorio, Civilization and Stardew Valley, among others, all had native Linux support and I wasn't bored. Then the Steam Deck and Proton came. I ticked a box in Steam settings to not restrict "Steam Play" to verified games, installed a Windows game and started it. It just worked. When Cyberpunk 2077 came out, Proton was updated in time and I launched Cyberpunk 2077, a demanding modern game, in my Linux Steam Client as if it was nothing special. It's three years later and I'm still thrilled. You bascially don't have to care anymore. I still take a look into ProtonDB before buying a game, but I can't remember the last time it wasn't working (excluding Anti Cheat-Stuff for Multiplayer, but even that is being worked on).
  - Joel_Mckay 3y ago
    Thanks, I agree Steam has seen the light, and I hope they keep focused on improving fun stuff. Also, Classic FreeCIV on the web looks like fun too, definitely have to find a weekend for a round. The Anti-cheat stuff is unfortunately a necessity for multiplayer games, as even Pokemon GO PvP cheats lamed up the game. lol Cheers =)
    - wolletd 3y ago
      Oh, I didn't want to critique Anti-cheat for existing and not properly working (yet) in Proton. It's software that tries to validate the environment the game is running in and is suddenly confronted with "wait, thats not a Windows system at all". And as you already argued, just ditching Anti-cheat is not an option. So they either ignore Linux/Proton altogether or have to start actually implementing anti-cheat for a Linux/Proton environment. Even if they go with the second option (as e.g. EAC is, iirc), it simply takes time to implement.
      - Joel_Mckay 3y ago
        Someone needs to add a lag-switcher Nerf feature on all platforms. They would make serious coin. =)
Dalewyn 3y ago
Windows 11 will run on the same hardware as Windows 10 if the hardware checks in the installer are worked around.
- Joel_Mckay 3y ago
  Sure, but most users don't know these tricks, and MS is actively neutering workarounds each update. =)

Joel_Mckay 3y ago

Nope, MS has the worst competitor imaginable... themselves. =) People are going to compare the new with the old... every release. Modern MS is getting well deserved criticism, because we all know they are better than a GUI concept 1990s Apple Steve Jobs was actually recorded ridiculing in an interview. Win10 SSD support was good, and is the last version of windows in my opinion. Win11 has done too many silly things to trust in production environments. =)

jimnotgym 3y ago
then don't trust it in production. Windows 10 is still current.

sambazi 3y ago

> MS have a current commercial OS that will run on 30 year old hardware! i586 support was dropped by major linux distros some time ago, i somewhat doubt that w10 will run on something pre-pentium and w11 won't even install on my ~5y old dell laptop

jimnotgym 3y ago
Pentium was launched 30 years ago according to Wikipedia. I know for sure I have run Windows 10 on a P4 (22 years old) and I think I have run it on P2 (27 years old), but it has been a while. Windows 11 I am bundling with Vista, Windows 8, etc. I'm skipping this one thanks.

bombcar 3y ago

You get a weird situation where very old software runs fine on the latest OS - and of course very new software works fine, but somewhere in the middle you get things that were removed (often software works fine, but the installer won't run because it's WIN16).