11 ms·
The situation is still the same, happening as we speak. This court case is from a long time ago, but look at the market since the Ryzen inception, the last five
by 8jef 3y ago
The situation is still the same, happening as we speak. This court case is from a long time ago, but look at the market since the Ryzen inception, the last five years, and you'll find it hard to purchase worthwhile AMD stuff outside of some niches (desktop CPUs, low quality plastic gaming laptops with TN screens, or super low quality budget laptops with sub-Ryzen apus). Just go to BestBuy, or browse Newegg, or else, and good luck finding a great Ryzen product in stock that you can purchase. All the interesting stuff, for creators, or graphic designers, or anything high end, they only have Intel products for sale.
Try this: find me an in-stock 2-in-1 Ryzen 7 or 9 metal case laptop with high nits 2k+ touchscreen, no discrete GPU, great backlit keyboard, a large battery, and a spare M.2 slot.
Or try to find anything bizarre or exotic (like those laptop with 2 screens instead of 1 + keyboard). Nothing with AMD, ever.
Almost all are / were easy to find in Intel flavor. Have fun trying to put your hands on any worthwile AMD product.
- tehlike 3y agoYes, i did this exercise few years ago, I wanted 4K screen with ryzen, and there was none. Ended up going with intel.
- clouddrover 3y ago> Or try to find anything bizarre or exotic Here's something exotic soon to be released with AMD: https://frame.work https://frame.work
- rgreekguy 3y ago"Soon to be released" is a big thing to say. Their shipping countries list is small.
- theodric 3y agoI ordered one for my wife so I've been treated to the stream of e-mails from Framework pushing back the definition of 'soon’ now into Q4 due to firmware issues. And it looks like they're just shipping anyway despite not being able to use USB-A modules in the rear 2 slots without "high power consumption."Appears they're assuming they'll find a solution down the road to make the system fit for purpose. Really making me question my choices here. Should have just bought her a Lenovo.
- clouddrover 3y agoYou chose to pre-order a first generation product (their first AMD release) from a small company. There were always going to be problems and delays because there always are. The error you made was pre-ordering it a long way out. You could always cancel your pre-order, get your deposit refunded, and just buy the Lenovo. You could also get a 13th gen Intel Framework 13 right now. I've pre-ordered a Framework 13 AMD. I'm not as worried about it because I only placed the order recently and I'm across all of the issues.
- clouddrover 3y ago> "Soon to be released" is a big thing to say. Not really. They've shipped three iterations of their Intel laptop (11th, 12th, and 13th gen Intels). The Framework 13 AMD and Framework 16 AMD laptops are their first AMD products. The Framework 13 AMD started production a couple of weeks ago: https://frame.work/blog/now-available-in-taiwan https://frame.work/blog/now-available-in-taiwan They'll start shipping them soon. > Their shipping countries list is small. Framework is still a small company. They'll add more countries as they grow. The brief was "exotic". I delivered exotic.
- NikkiA 3y ago> newegg This is about the EU, it's no surprise that Intel continue to be monopolistic and abuse the market in a market that makes no attempts to control abusive companies.
- rcbdev 3y agoYes. I feel like AMD consumer laptops are much more the norm in EU compared to US - Funny how that works out.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dietr1ch 3y agoIt was easy to see there was something wrong. I've been trying to find a similar machine and couldn't find one, the closest was an asus zephyrus, but I didn't really wanted to pay for an nvidia discrete GPU just to disable to due to shitty drivers, nor wanted its plastic case. I ended up just replacing the battery on my old laptop in the meantime. TBH the only reason to upgrade would be the screen
- winter_blue 3y agoThe Asus Zephyrus G14 and G15 series, which were almost universally hailed as being one of the finest laptops in terms of build quality[1], come with Ryzen CPUs. [1] during the covid era; here's one example from Feb '21: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuoHW5EiJdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuoHW5EiJdQ
- baz00 3y agoI think it’s more complicated than that. It’s not just incentivised stuff from intel. There is little to no market for high end stuff from AMD. Some vendors tried and it didn’t sell. Most of the workstation consumers I know won’t touch AMD after a couple of bad experiences. Even had one myself where I had to dump an AMD desktop because of reliability issues which went on for months.
- tjoff 3y agoWhat do you mean there is no market for high end stuff from AMD? That's like saying "there is no market for high end PCs". I know people are confused, but they are not buying "an Intel", they are buying "a Dell". If that happened to have an AMD CPU inside 98% of people would never now - unless Dell made a point to tell them. Yes, some vendors tried to put a good CPU in a budget chassi, worst screen you could find, no battery life, terrible build quality etc. No shit it didn't sell. And not sure what "bad experiences" here amount to, has nothing to do with what CPU was inside but most probably the brand of the device. And that might partly because the vendor had no experience in that ecosystem and had to do much from scratch or whatever. But most likely they just didn't put in the effort (if the poor build quality and components didn't already tell you that), which kind of makes sense given the weird situation we are in. How much of that can be attributed to intel, and how much can be attributed to vendors having absolutely no vision and no desire to make anything but literal safe crap, I have no idea. But, even if intel didn't do anything wrong I wouldn't be surprised with the outcome. It is not like the ecosystem for intel hardware is great either. It took decades before microsoft gave up and launched their own Surface-line of computers simply because all the combined efforts of all manufacturers could barely produce anything of value. Just as google had to launch their own Pixel line because all other vendors would just produce crap that people then associated with android.
- baz00 3y agoCompletely wrong. Purchasers buy Intel if there is a choice. A huge amount of people got burned by shitty AMD hardware. Right into Ryzen era. Intel stuff tends to just work. As for problems it’s usually reliability issues with power management, network and occasional crashes. And that’s from big brand integrators like Lenovo. You just don’t get the same poor experience with their Intel parts. I mean when we bought a huge chunk of T14s recently, an actual factor in the decision analysis was “not the AMD variety”. It might be hardware, it might be software but no one has the time or energy to dig through that. Anecdotally I built a Ryzen 3700X workstation from scratch a couple of years ago. Nothing but trouble. Some days it wouldn’t even boot until the third attempt. And that gets to decision makers and they make decisions.
- INTPenis 3y agoI can attest to this. I've been hunting like a mad man for a good Ryzen laptop ever since Zen 3 first came out. It was eventually OK for Windows users but for Linux users you had to settle for a cheap wifi chipset in any AMD laptop. I finally managed to at least find a mediatek chipset instead of qualcomm, but I really would like an intel wifi chipset with a Ryzen CPU. And don't even get me started on high resolution, or touchscreen monitors.
- codedokode 3y agoWhat's good in Intel WiFi chips? They don't work in access point mode.
- INTPenis 3y agoThe driver. With qualcomm I had signal issues, connectivity issues. With mediatek it works well so far at least but I think the intel Linux driver is the most mature one. Unless you want to run an access point of course, I have no idea abou that.
- noelwelsh 3y agoFramework laptop?
- theodric 3y agoI recently picked up a ThinkPad E14 gen 2 with a Ryzen 7 4700U for €200. The gen 3 version has Zen 3 CPUs. The Wi-Fi card is M.2 A+E compatible, and although it shipped with Intel Wi-Fi 6, I upgraded it to a 6E card for €20. It is a cheap but nice-cheap laptop that seems like it matches what you're looking for.
- jiofj 3y agoOr it is consumer choice. For decades, AMD/ATI have been sold to me as "like Intel/nVidia, but cheaper". I've fallen for that trick several times and I have always regretted my purchase. AMD will never get any money from me ever again. Perhaps I'm not the only one.
- wasyl 3y agoCan you elaborate on some of the reasons why you regretted the purchases?
- jiofj 3y agoCPUs: thermal issues, sometimes performance. GPUs: terrible, awful drivers and compatibility.
- dharmab 3y agoThe people downvoting you haven't used the older AMD Windows GPU drivers, or run heavy VR workloads on modern AMD GPUs. I say this as an AMD fan who is very happy with my 5900X/6900XT system.
- ChoGGi 3y ago> The people downvoting you haven't used the older AMD Windows GPU drivers The exact reason why I stuck with Nvidia since buying a 1080. I got it for the perf, but I stayed with Nvidia for the drivers.
- runeks 3y agoDevil’s advocate: where’s the evidence that this is caused by anti-competitive practices by Intel? Most people have no idea what AMD or Intel — let alone a CPU — is. It seems plausible that AMD isn’t popular because the average consumer isn’t demanding it.
- eatyourglory 3y agoI know for sure most people don't know either of them. But, more people know the name Intel from those Intel stickers on those old laptops people used back in the day. So because those worked fine for them, they just choose to ask for the same name, making Intel over AMD. I'm sure there are more factors than just these that make Intel the most popular CPU brand, but this is the best one I could think.
- bayindirh 3y agoWhile I can’t give the specifics, I can say that I have experienced this in the server space repeatedly. Manufacturers were not able to design equivalent servers due to pressure from Intel, or need to delay equivalent or more powerful AMD platforms. AMD is still has more PCIe lanes and better for high bandwidth requiring tasks like dense GPU computing.
- wildrhythms 3y ago>where’s the evidence that this is caused by anti-competitive practices by Intel? The examples cited in the article: >Specifically, the Commission cited examples where Intel paid HP not to sell AMD-powered business PCs to small and medium businesses through direct channels from 2002-2005. It also paid Acer to delay the launch of an AMD-based notebook from late 2003 to early 2004. Intel also paid Lenovo to push back the launch of AMD notebooks by six months.
- machinekob 3y agoPeople are just not buying AMD stuff and AMD wasn't able to provide enough chips when they want (last year case when they just "paper" launch chips 4fun with big hype) it's not some hidden conspiracy.
- cedilla 3y agoIt is a conspiracy. Intel was repeatedly found guilty. Not only with AMD but also with other competitors.
- machinekob 3y agoNot in 2022-2023 wtf are you talking about.
- automatic6131 3y agoI own a Ryzen gaming laptop with an aluminum/magnesium chassis (although, yes, plastic top). Yes, it has a discrete GPU, but it also has an FHD IPS panel. I deliberately chose against the 4k option I think existed, because a 4k 15" panel is like fitting wheels to a tomato
- rjh29 3y agoAsking for a M.2 slot idk but you're ignoring the entire thinkpad line here.
- panick21_ 3y agoI think its far more about how Intel has its own fabs and has far larger capacity in production. AMD is production limited and depends on TSMC and shares new nodes with Apple and others. I don't really see the issue, there are Ryzen think pads I could order right now. > Try this: find me an in-stock 2-in-1 Ryzen 7 or 9 metal case laptop with high nits 2k+ touchscreen, no discrete GPU, great backlit keyboard, a large battery, and a spare M.2 slot. Maybe it just that your tastes are not that common.
- jdblair 3y agoI pre-ordered the latest Framework 13 with a Ryzen 7840U, an exception that admittedly proves your point.
- rat9988 3y agoI feel like the exception doesn't prove his point at all.
- jdblair 3y agoits not mainstream
- machinekob 3y agoIt is considering its partially owned by few YouTubers and you hear about them everywhere, they are not as big as Dell or Asus but they are on the market only for few years so.
- mschuster91 3y ago> This court case is from a long time ago, but look at the market since the Ryzen inception, the last five years, and you'll find it hard to purchase worthwhile AMD stuff outside of some niches (desktop CPUs, low quality plastic gaming laptops with TN screens, or super low quality budget laptops with sub-Ryzen apus). cough Acer Swift X
- Kuinox 3y agoFramework have AMD laptop in stocks.