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I paid for & use one of Tony's products (Xnapper for screenshots). It's good, but I reported a cropping bug, along with a replication bullet list and .gif scree

I paid for & use one of Tony's products (Xnapper for screenshots). It's good, but I reported a cropping bug, along with a replication bullet list and .gif screencast of me replicating the bug. I got a response from a support person telling me to increase border padding beyond any reasonable aesthetic level. Aesthetics is the purpose of buying the product, otherwise non-aesthetic screenshots are built into macOS. The support person asked if this error happens regularly... well replicate it for yourself using my screencast and that's your answer. There was no bug fix. No point version update in the works. The last software update was 9 months ago on 15 Jan, 2023. I feel like Tony's able to be a profitable solopreneur because he outsources all support to people who don't really care about the quality of the output.

sokoloff 3y ago
You got an unsatisfactory reply to a support ticket. What's the realistic alternative with other software vendors of $20-50 products? IMO, the most common is not "a satisfactory reply" but rather "no [edit to add: human-generated] reply".
- antisthenes 3y ago
  The solution to receiving an unsatisfactory reply on a support ticket is not "lower your expectations", regardless of how that business may be structured. If we lower our expectations of software, we'll get exactly that, shitty software.
  - cellis 3y ago
    If you don’t like it you can always stop paying, or better yet build your own. That’s how things get better.
    - Capricorn2481 3y ago
      I stopped paying for Youtube Premium. Did that make Youtube better? Maybe I'll find time to build that when I'm not building API integrations with Youtube.
      - ipaddr 3y ago
        If enough people stopped it might influence Youtube to change. Youtube is in the drivers seat. Some products change rapidly based on feedback and others never change. Youtube has the right to not make changes and not get your business back. If they make too many of these decisions and run out of money the will close. This is indirect. You save by not paying for youtube. You paying someone else for similar services has a better return because your money endorses someone elses vision. When you buy a product you give a thumbs up. When you don't you don't give a thumbs down..
      - cellis 3y ago
        If everyone thinks like this then no, it won't get better. But I stand by my statement, no matter how many downvotes I get. If you don't like a product, stop paying for it, and either find alternatives or build your own. Its quite rare that you're going to influence their roadmap by getting a ticket filed.
        Capricorn2481 3y ago
        Don't you think it'd be a lot quicker if multiple people were filing a ticket for the same issue then to build the entire product yourself?
        cellis 3y ago
        I could write many Series A angel checks if I only had a penny for all the tickets on product issues I've had that were never resolved. It's for this reason if I find an NPM library that doesn't meet my needs and I have the time, I'll write a new one that solves only my use case.
  - johntiger1 3y ago
    Alternatively, you can speak their language so to speak, and request a refund/issue a chargeback. Sometimes that's the only way they'll understand
- 38 3y ago
  > IMO, the most common is not "a satisfactory reply" but rather "no reply". what point are you trying to make here? that he should shut up and be a good consumer? how dare he expect support from a product he paid for, from a guy making 500k a year, am I right?
- riddley 3y ago
  Responses like yours are always so strange to me. Perhaps I misunderstood your response but it feels very much like a defense of the status quo. As if the PC was expecting too much to get support for software they paid for and that their raising of the issue in the comment was unwarranted. How do things ever get better if everyone just accepts everything that ever happens without complaint?
  - 1shooner 3y ago
    >How do things ever get better if everyone just accepts everything that ever happens without complaint? I don't think this post is about making things better, it's about making money quickly.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    It's not that it was unwarranted on the consumer's part, but rather that the common outcome of support (of no human reply) would have been not noteworthy, quickly forgotten, and probably not resulted in the upthread comment at all. Instead, the case of having human-staffed support for a low-priced product that happens to have given an unhelpful reply to GP (but likely gave helpful replies to >50% of support cases [because most support questions are user-error]) drives home a negative [rather than null] feeling in the upthread consumer and results in the negative response above. (For avoidance of doubt, GP/consumer did nothing at all wrong then nor now. I'm talking about the incentives a company has to offer support at all for a low priced software product.)
  - suzzer99 3y ago
    So many software devs seem to have this attitude that the customer (internal or external) should just shut up and be happy with whatever they've been given. I've often felt that many devs could benefit from a stint waiting tables — where the customer is always right and your income is dependent on being helpful and responsive.
- Lewton 3y ago
  > the most common is not "a satisfactory reply" but rather "no reply". No it isn't?
- fullstackchris 3y ago
  see, i just don't get this. one of my SaaS products is essentially 100% hands off (aside from occasional package upgrading, random refunds or upgrade issues every few weeks) but i still absolutely LOVE adding new features or fixing bug requests that customers bring into my view. it gives me the classic feeling of really helping someone, even if it is just a single individual out there. then the bug reports start to get further and further apart... now i have had one in months :)
  - johntiger1 3y ago
    Yep, well it's clear how indexed on money Tony is in this post. Not passing judgment either way, but for some people software is just a means of making money. And that's okay.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  Isn't more of a bug report than a support ticket ? I'd hate silence to be the standard response to bug reports.
- thfuran 3y ago
  I was able to get prompt and effective support from VoIP.ms, a company I pay something like $1.50/month. I once contacted Aruba support regarding hardware I bought secondhand and they replaced it for me. That many software companies choose to (and for some reason are permitted to) operate at scale beyond which they can meaningfully support their products doesn't mean that it's fundamentally impossible to receive support without paying a lot.
- woadwarrior01 3y ago
  I sell a $10 app on the App Store and it sells quite well. My co-founder and I personally block time every evening to reply to support emails and interact with our users on discord. We could easily hire someone to handle support, but we derive a lot of pleasure and satisfaction from being able to deal with our users ourselves. Our users seem to like it too. And we couldn't care less about building in public. We build for ourselves and our users.
- bdlowery 3y ago
  Clean shot is exactly like xnapper but better in every single aspect
  - anconam 3y ago
    True that Cleanshot works well and was there before but I feel like it should be mentioned that the background feature was copied 1:1 from Xnapper from Tony.
- tomaskafka 3y ago
  I run such a product, I try to create an expectation that I read every email (I do), but I may not able to answer it, and I much prefer spending time fixing the actual bug or updating the UI or docs (which scales) to responding (which doesn't scale).
Ozzie_osman 3y ago
> I feel like Tony's able to be a profitable solopreneur because he outsources all support to people who don't really care about the quality of the output. Replace Tony with the name of almost any company these days and the statement would still be true, unfortunately. This isn't a solopreneur issue at all.
- agumonkey 3y ago
  Seems like a cyclical systemic failure where confidence in the system makes people buying even though there's no real desire for high quality and it just coasts until it fails.
- ec109685 3y ago
  Slack still responds to every issue raised in detail.
bnt 3y ago
I see this with course creators as well. I reported dozens of errors in a particular corse and the creator was literally annoyed at me.
- MSFT_Edging 3y ago
  If you can't do, teach. If you can't teach, write an online course. If you can't write an online course, teach phys ed.
  - aryamaan 3y ago
    This kind of narrative stops aspiring teachers to go in the domain of education. Teachers play such an important rule. They have to swallow the pill that the common narrative is that cause they didn’t do whatever they are teaching hence they teach
    - unsupp0rted 3y ago
      > Teachers play such an important rule. Citation needed
    - barry-cotter 3y ago
      Anyone who is less than 100% confident that they can in fact “do” should not be teaching. If your ego is that fragile you’re not going to last, whether because students don’t worship you, or because management ask you to do something differently.
trungdq88 3y ago
Hi, it's Tony here. Sorry about the experience with support. I remember this issue, it's about making the screenshot background transparent without getting the drop shadow getting cut off, right? The app is not designed well for using with transparent background. So if you prefer transparent background, it's best to make the shadow smaller, or remove the shadow completely, or… increase the padding. I considered to supporting this but in the end I removed the ticket out of the backlog because I didn't want to turn Xnapper into a photo editor, sorry! If this isn't about the transparent background, can you send me another email to support? I’ll take a look, thanks for using Xnapper! :)
- unsupp0rted 3y ago
  It's not related to transparent backgrounds or drop shadows. After taking a rectangular screenshot that is longer in width but shorter in height (such as the dimensions of this HN comment input box on desktop)... then adding an annotation arrow, Xnapper suddenly cuts off the top n pixels, cutting off its own generated backdrop, and the arrow is placed not where the user selected, but n pixels below that point. I've given up on trying to resolve it and for shorter screenshots I now use the built-in macOS option again instead of Xnapper.
  - trungdq88 3y ago
    Ah got it. This is a known issue, usually I workaround this by first putting the arrow elsewhere in the middle of the pic and dragging it to where I want it later (not great, I know…). I haven't been putting a lot of time on Xnapper lately, sorry about that. I'll prioritize this and push out an update soon.
    - cj9 3y ago
      Still charging full price for it though aint ya
- tomthumb 3y ago
  [flagged]
boplicity 3y ago
Reminds me of a very similar "support" experience I had just yesterday, with a well funded and relatively popular SaaS. They have a problem with their css media queries that causes necessary navigation items to completely disappear as certain screen sizes, making the software unusable. Their answer, when I reported this, was to resize the browser window. The answer, I suspect, was from a low pay support worker. Outsourcing support isn't easy, even if you do care about quality, and have a decent budget.
- unsupp0rted 3y ago
  Have you tried clearing your web browser cache and resetting your cookies? Please log out and then back in again. That should resolve the issue in at least 1 case out of 50, but if it does not please contact us again and resubmit your issue from scratch with a different agent working a different shift.

sokoloff 3y ago

You got an unsatisfactory reply to a support ticket. What's the realistic alternative with other software vendors of $20-50 products? IMO, the most common is not "a satisfactory reply" but rather "no [edit to add: human-generated] reply".

antisthenes 3y ago
The solution to receiving an unsatisfactory reply on a support ticket is not "lower your expectations", regardless of how that business may be structured. If we lower our expectations of software, we'll get exactly that, shitty software.
- cellis 3y ago
  If you don’t like it you can always stop paying, or better yet build your own. That’s how things get better.
  - Capricorn2481 3y ago
    I stopped paying for Youtube Premium. Did that make Youtube better? Maybe I'll find time to build that when I'm not building API integrations with Youtube.
    - ipaddr 3y ago
      If enough people stopped it might influence Youtube to change. Youtube is in the drivers seat. Some products change rapidly based on feedback and others never change. Youtube has the right to not make changes and not get your business back. If they make too many of these decisions and run out of money the will close. This is indirect. You save by not paying for youtube. You paying someone else for similar services has a better return because your money endorses someone elses vision. When you buy a product you give a thumbs up. When you don't you don't give a thumbs down..
    - cellis 3y ago
      If everyone thinks like this then no, it won't get better. But I stand by my statement, no matter how many downvotes I get. If you don't like a product, stop paying for it, and either find alternatives or build your own. Its quite rare that you're going to influence their roadmap by getting a ticket filed.
      - Capricorn2481 3y ago
        Don't you think it'd be a lot quicker if multiple people were filing a ticket for the same issue then to build the entire product yourself?
        cellis 3y ago
        I could write many Series A angel checks if I only had a penny for all the tickets on product issues I've had that were never resolved. It's for this reason if I find an NPM library that doesn't meet my needs and I have the time, I'll write a new one that solves only my use case.
- johntiger1 3y ago
  Alternatively, you can speak their language so to speak, and request a refund/issue a chargeback. Sometimes that's the only way they'll understand
38 3y ago
> IMO, the most common is not "a satisfactory reply" but rather "no reply". what point are you trying to make here? that he should shut up and be a good consumer? how dare he expect support from a product he paid for, from a guy making 500k a year, am I right?
riddley 3y ago
Responses like yours are always so strange to me. Perhaps I misunderstood your response but it feels very much like a defense of the status quo. As if the PC was expecting too much to get support for software they paid for and that their raising of the issue in the comment was unwarranted. How do things ever get better if everyone just accepts everything that ever happens without complaint?
- 1shooner 3y ago
  >How do things ever get better if everyone just accepts everything that ever happens without complaint? I don't think this post is about making things better, it's about making money quickly.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  It's not that it was unwarranted on the consumer's part, but rather that the common outcome of support (of no human reply) would have been not noteworthy, quickly forgotten, and probably not resulted in the upthread comment at all. Instead, the case of having human-staffed support for a low-priced product that happens to have given an unhelpful reply to GP (but likely gave helpful replies to >50% of support cases [because most support questions are user-error]) drives home a negative [rather than null] feeling in the upthread consumer and results in the negative response above. (For avoidance of doubt, GP/consumer did nothing at all wrong then nor now. I'm talking about the incentives a company has to offer support at all for a low priced software product.)
- suzzer99 3y ago
  So many software devs seem to have this attitude that the customer (internal or external) should just shut up and be happy with whatever they've been given. I've often felt that many devs could benefit from a stint waiting tables — where the customer is always right and your income is dependent on being helpful and responsive.
Lewton 3y ago
> the most common is not "a satisfactory reply" but rather "no reply". No it isn't?
fullstackchris 3y ago
see, i just don't get this. one of my SaaS products is essentially 100% hands off (aside from occasional package upgrading, random refunds or upgrade issues every few weeks) but i still absolutely LOVE adding new features or fixing bug requests that customers bring into my view. it gives me the classic feeling of really helping someone, even if it is just a single individual out there. then the bug reports start to get further and further apart... now i have had one in months :)
- johntiger1 3y ago
  Yep, well it's clear how indexed on money Tony is in this post. Not passing judgment either way, but for some people software is just a means of making money. And that's okay.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
makeitdouble 3y ago
Isn't more of a bug report than a support ticket ? I'd hate silence to be the standard response to bug reports.
thfuran 3y ago
I was able to get prompt and effective support from VoIP.ms, a company I pay something like $1.50/month. I once contacted Aruba support regarding hardware I bought secondhand and they replaced it for me. That many software companies choose to (and for some reason are permitted to) operate at scale beyond which they can meaningfully support their products doesn't mean that it's fundamentally impossible to receive support without paying a lot.
woadwarrior01 3y ago
I sell a $10 app on the App Store and it sells quite well. My co-founder and I personally block time every evening to reply to support emails and interact with our users on discord. We could easily hire someone to handle support, but we derive a lot of pleasure and satisfaction from being able to deal with our users ourselves. Our users seem to like it too. And we couldn't care less about building in public. We build for ourselves and our users.
bdlowery 3y ago
Clean shot is exactly like xnapper but better in every single aspect
- anconam 3y ago
  True that Cleanshot works well and was there before but I feel like it should be mentioned that the background feature was copied 1:1 from Xnapper from Tony.
tomaskafka 3y ago
I run such a product, I try to create an expectation that I read every email (I do), but I may not able to answer it, and I much prefer spending time fixing the actual bug or updating the UI or docs (which scales) to responding (which doesn't scale).

Ozzie_osman 3y ago

> I feel like Tony's able to be a profitable solopreneur because he outsources all support to people who don't really care about the quality of the output. Replace Tony with the name of almost any company these days and the statement would still be true, unfortunately. This isn't a solopreneur issue at all.

agumonkey 3y ago
Seems like a cyclical systemic failure where confidence in the system makes people buying even though there's no real desire for high quality and it just coasts until it fails.
ec109685 3y ago
Slack still responds to every issue raised in detail.

bnt 3y ago

I see this with course creators as well. I reported dozens of errors in a particular corse and the creator was literally annoyed at me.

MSFT_Edging 3y ago
If you can't do, teach. If you can't teach, write an online course. If you can't write an online course, teach phys ed.
- aryamaan 3y ago
  This kind of narrative stops aspiring teachers to go in the domain of education. Teachers play such an important rule. They have to swallow the pill that the common narrative is that cause they didn’t do whatever they are teaching hence they teach
  - unsupp0rted 3y ago
    > Teachers play such an important rule. Citation needed
  - barry-cotter 3y ago
    Anyone who is less than 100% confident that they can in fact “do” should not be teaching. If your ego is that fragile you’re not going to last, whether because students don’t worship you, or because management ask you to do something differently.

trungdq88 3y ago

Hi, it's Tony here. Sorry about the experience with support. I remember this issue, it's about making the screenshot background transparent without getting the drop shadow getting cut off, right? The app is not designed well for using with transparent background. So if you prefer transparent background, it's best to make the shadow smaller, or remove the shadow completely, or… increase the padding. I considered to supporting this but in the end I removed the ticket out of the backlog because I didn't want to turn Xnapper into a photo editor, sorry! If this isn't about the transparent background, can you send me another email to support? I’ll take a look, thanks for using Xnapper! :)

unsupp0rted 3y ago
It's not related to transparent backgrounds or drop shadows. After taking a rectangular screenshot that is longer in width but shorter in height (such as the dimensions of this HN comment input box on desktop)... then adding an annotation arrow, Xnapper suddenly cuts off the top n pixels, cutting off its own generated backdrop, and the arrow is placed not where the user selected, but n pixels below that point. I've given up on trying to resolve it and for shorter screenshots I now use the built-in macOS option again instead of Xnapper.
- trungdq88 3y ago
  Ah got it. This is a known issue, usually I workaround this by first putting the arrow elsewhere in the middle of the pic and dragging it to where I want it later (not great, I know…). I haven't been putting a lot of time on Xnapper lately, sorry about that. I'll prioritize this and push out an update soon.
  - cj9 3y ago
    Still charging full price for it though aint ya
tomthumb 3y ago
[flagged]

boplicity 3y ago

Reminds me of a very similar "support" experience I had just yesterday, with a well funded and relatively popular SaaS. They have a problem with their css media queries that causes necessary navigation items to completely disappear as certain screen sizes, making the software unusable. Their answer, when I reported this, was to resize the browser window. The answer, I suspect, was from a low pay support worker. Outsourcing support isn't easy, even if you do care about quality, and have a decent budget.

unsupp0rted 3y ago
Have you tried clearing your web browser cache and resetting your cookies? Please log out and then back in again. That should resolve the issue in at least 1 case out of 50, but if it does not please contact us again and resubmit your issue from scratch with a different agent working a different shift.