4 ms·

How can they reasonably expect you to pay in these circumstances? They were clear about wanting payment upfront, you agreed to the price, (presumably) paid them

How can they reasonably expect you to pay in these circumstances? They were clear about wanting payment upfront, you agreed to the price, (presumably) paid them, received the service/treatment. That should be the end of the story. What legal basis do they possibly have to send a bill months later? "We felt like we needed more money because we had a bad quarter" is not going to cut it.

nradov 3y ago
In many cases the patient has insurance with set co-pays so providers collect only the co-pay at time of service based on a good faith assumption that the insurer will pay the rest of the claim at an agreed rate. But if the insurer doesn't pay by a certain deadline then the provider might bill the patient for the balance. Then the patient has to argue with their insurer over the claim. This is a screwed up system that leaves patients caught in the middle of commercial disputes. But providers do deserve be paid for services rendered and it would be unfair to just stiff them.
- bb88 3y ago
  But also, the patient paid for health insurance for the explicit reason that insurance provides protection against surprise costs, often paying thousands of dollars per year for it. So fuck the patient? That's the current regime.
  - nradov 3y ago
    You may have a misunderstanding of medical insurance. Such policies are very specific and never promised blanket protection against surprise costs. Let's say you crash your car and take it to an auto body shop for repair. If for some reason your auto insurance doesn't pay for the repairs would you tell the mechanic to fuck off and eat the cost? I understand there are issues in healthcare with price transparency and estimates, but the basic principle is the same. Regardless of insurance or lack thereof, customers are obligated to pay for services they receive.
    - bb88 3y ago
      You must be confused about how health insurance works in the US, as well as the effectiveness of a bad analogy. Also people who disagree with your must certainly be ignorant -- particularly on HN. > If for some reason your auto insurance doesn't pay for the repairs would you tell the mechanic to fuck off and eat the cost? I have a free choice of both auto insurance and car mechanic. On the other hand I may not have a choice about health insurance company (usually from the employer) or the emergency room I'm sent in the ambulance to -- particularly if I'm unconscious.
      - nradov 3y ago
        Actually I am quite familiar with how health insurance works in the US. If you don't like the plans available through your employer you are welcome to buy another policy elsewhere. You have free choice, although you might lose your employer's subsidy.
        supertrope 3y ago
        That employer subsidy is a massive difference! e.g. Your payroll deduction is $50 per pay period. The deductible is $2000 per year. Out of pocket max $4000. The network is wide. This is because your employer is paying for the other 85% of this plan and employed people need less medical services on average than the public as a whole. You switch to a plan off Healthcare.gov. It costs $500/mo. Deductible is $8000/year and out of pocket max is $15000. The network of providers is only in one state and only at one brand. I don't think anyone would actually reject a cushy employer plan for an exchange plan.
- SilasX 3y ago
  I’ve had this happen to me as a cash/self-pay/no insurance involved patient before. They’re shameless.
callalex 3y ago
Because what are you gonna do about it? They have the ability (unless this goes through) to prevent you from seeking employment, renting, or buying a roof over your head if you don’t bend over and do whatever they tell you to do.

nradov 3y ago

In many cases the patient has insurance with set co-pays so providers collect only the co-pay at time of service based on a good faith assumption that the insurer will pay the rest of the claim at an agreed rate. But if the insurer doesn't pay by a certain deadline then the provider might bill the patient for the balance. Then the patient has to argue with their insurer over the claim. This is a screwed up system that leaves patients caught in the middle of commercial disputes. But providers do deserve be paid for services rendered and it would be unfair to just stiff them.

bb88 3y ago
But also, the patient paid for health insurance for the explicit reason that insurance provides protection against surprise costs, often paying thousands of dollars per year for it. So fuck the patient? That's the current regime.
- nradov 3y ago
  You may have a misunderstanding of medical insurance. Such policies are very specific and never promised blanket protection against surprise costs. Let's say you crash your car and take it to an auto body shop for repair. If for some reason your auto insurance doesn't pay for the repairs would you tell the mechanic to fuck off and eat the cost? I understand there are issues in healthcare with price transparency and estimates, but the basic principle is the same. Regardless of insurance or lack thereof, customers are obligated to pay for services they receive.
  - bb88 3y ago
    You must be confused about how health insurance works in the US, as well as the effectiveness of a bad analogy. Also people who disagree with your must certainly be ignorant -- particularly on HN. > If for some reason your auto insurance doesn't pay for the repairs would you tell the mechanic to fuck off and eat the cost? I have a free choice of both auto insurance and car mechanic. On the other hand I may not have a choice about health insurance company (usually from the employer) or the emergency room I'm sent in the ambulance to -- particularly if I'm unconscious.
    - nradov 3y ago
      Actually I am quite familiar with how health insurance works in the US. If you don't like the plans available through your employer you are welcome to buy another policy elsewhere. You have free choice, although you might lose your employer's subsidy.
      - supertrope 3y ago
        That employer subsidy is a massive difference! e.g. Your payroll deduction is $50 per pay period. The deductible is $2000 per year. Out of pocket max $4000. The network is wide. This is because your employer is paying for the other 85% of this plan and employed people need less medical services on average than the public as a whole. You switch to a plan off Healthcare.gov. It costs $500/mo. Deductible is $8000/year and out of pocket max is $15000. The network of providers is only in one state and only at one brand. I don't think anyone would actually reject a cushy employer plan for an exchange plan.
SilasX 3y ago
I’ve had this happen to me as a cash/self-pay/no insurance involved patient before. They’re shameless.

callalex 3y ago

Because what are you gonna do about it? They have the ability (unless this goes through) to prevent you from seeking employment, renting, or buying a roof over your head if you don’t bend over and do whatever they tell you to do.