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I suppose it wouldn't be that surprising. Mindfulness for instance teaches you to "let go" of thoughts - which is really just a gentle form of suppression. CBT

I suppose it wouldn't be that surprising. Mindfulness for instance teaches you to "let go" of thoughts - which is really just a gentle form of suppression. CBT encourages you to redirect existing negative thoughts in a positive/constructive direction - ultimately steering you away from or undermining the original negative thought - but does not encourage you to do a deep dive on it. Not to mention that Freud was a quack who was more prone to speculation than to science, so if traditional psychotherapy is based on his work then it is likely built on sand. Taken to the opposite extreme, I think it's in some sense obvious that some degree of suppression is actually good for you, precisely because ruminating for long periods of time is clearly bad for you. From a neurological point of view, why should we see reiterating negative thoughts as any different from reinforcement learning? If we revisit these negative topics, are we not strengthening their presence in our minds? That said this study does not sound like it proves that suppressing negative thoughts works over a long period of time. The original theory posits that these suppressed thoughts might cause problems even years later when the latest this was followed up was a period of three months. So grains of salt etc.

jongjong 3y ago
The trouble with suppressing negative thoughts in the long run is that, eventually, reality may force you to confront them all at once and under far more difficult conditions. I'm a strong believer that you have to confront negative thoughts and resolve underlying issues as soon as they arise and not neglect them and tell yourself that everything is going to be OK. It's not going to be OK. Murphy's law; what can go wrong WILL go wrong. This has been shown to me over and over again. You cannot leave anything to chance. I'd rather have a few negative thoughts from time to time and resolve them as they come than fool myself into thinking that I'm living in la-la land and then after a few years find out that it has become hell on earth due to my neglect. It's like a garden; you need to maintain it. If you ignore the weeds, they'll eventually take over your garden. You can tell yourself that the weeds add charm and make your garden look more natural; that you're going for a "wild tropical look" or whatever, all part of the plan, but with that attitude, you're bound to fail. You'll just keep getting more of whatever it is that you neglect until it becomes unbearable.
- chmod600 3y ago
  Well, maybe or maybe not. A lot of the negative thoughts I have are somewhat fleeting, and if I revisit them the next day they seem pretty trivial and I could probably dismiss them sooner. Others might be more meaningful, perhaps a character flaw that you don't want to think about, but without really processing it it will never get fixed and keep causing more problems.
  - manuelmoreale 3y ago
    The fleeting part is essentially what certain types of meditation are all about. Negative thoughts and emotions have to actively be fueled by something in order to persist. And if you spend some time by simply observing those thoughts from a non judgmental stand point they’ll quickly disappear.
    - soared 3y ago
      > Negative thoughts and emotions have to actively be fueled by something in order to persist. I don’t think that’s true right? Negative thoughts and emotions occur naturally. If you’re statement we’re true then positive thoughts have to be fueled by something to persist. So then what is fuel - any stimulus at all?
- ipaddr 3y ago
  The underlying issue is the thoughts. Once you have done all you can do many start worrying the future won't unfold as they predicted. Fool yourself into thinking you live in some hell on earth is worse than thinking you might be happy with your current situation.
  - jongjong 3y ago
    I feel like happiness itself is also like a garden and needs to be maintained. You need to take intermittent breaks to look for weeds.
    - 3y ago
phnofive 3y ago
This study was measuring the effectiveness of trained suppression - not distraction or letting go, but specifically not imagining the event. I found it surprising, but at the same time avoidance might just have weakened the mental strength for doing exactly that.
camillomiller 3y ago
> Not to mention that Freud was a quack who was more prone to speculation than to science, so if traditional psychotherapy is based on his work then it is likely built on sand. Wow, that’s rich. Dismissing Freud like this is the most egregious way of conducting a discussion about these topics. Have you also ever thought that Mindfulness and CBT, while effective, are successful in a capitalistic society because ultimately convince us we can change to accept the fundamentals shortcomings and toxicities and inhumane dysfunctions of capitalism? Freud’s take on the mind was revolutionary, Mindfulness and CBT have a solid ground but have become a strong weapon in favor of the preservation of the status quo by convincing us we are just wrong in a perfectly fine environment (which in reality is not fine at all).
- scns 3y ago
  > Mindfulness and CBT have a solid ground but have become a strong weapon Have to disagree. A weapon is for fighting, and as Siddhartha Gautama said: "What you fight becomes stronger." They are tools IMHO that can help you, if you invest time and effort.
  - camillomiller 3y ago
    Ok then let's put it this way. They became weaponized, because they have a great ability in convincing people they're in need of fixing, instead of questioning the dysfunctional and fundamentally unequal society we live in.
    - scns 3y ago
      I think you may be in fight mode and your perception is strongly coloured by it. > convincing people they're in need of fixing Holy smokes Siegmund! I think we all carry some form of trauma that is more than worth healing. I invested 21 years into it and am more than glad i did. Equality is a lovely ideal to strive towards. [Edit] add missing word
- orwin 3y ago
  I think I said it enough on this website, but my personal experience with 4 psychanalyst led me to believe this is a quackery, a pseudoscience, and actually harmful for people who have real mental issues. And I'm not talking about those weird ideas about autism, that anybody with a brain who worked with autistic children or adults would know to dismiss, or that dumb dream analysis, I'm talking about clinical psychoanalysis and it's 'practical' application. The fact is, solving bipolarity or schizophrenia with psychoanalysis is like solving cancer with homeopathy, except in the second case the practionners have a smudge of ethics and led their patient towards real medical praticiens once the issue is to big for them. Whereas psychanalyst try to extract the most money they can for 15 years, pass the patients between themselves to make the con last longer, and if they're lucky the patient miss their TS, go see a real doctor that in 5 (5!) minutes diagnose bipolarity, then in a day make a bloodtest to be certain, and prescribe lithium. Without mood crisis, the patient can live without pissing of friends and family, and has only lost 15 years and a dozen relationships. In other case, the patient kill themselves.
scns 3y ago
> Mindfulness for instance teaches you to "let go" of thoughts - which is really just a gentle form of suppression Have to disagree. To let go you have to acknowledge/accept the subject. Suppression misses this IMHO.

jongjong 3y ago

The trouble with suppressing negative thoughts in the long run is that, eventually, reality may force you to confront them all at once and under far more difficult conditions. I'm a strong believer that you have to confront negative thoughts and resolve underlying issues as soon as they arise and not neglect them and tell yourself that everything is going to be OK. It's not going to be OK. Murphy's law; what can go wrong WILL go wrong. This has been shown to me over and over again. You cannot leave anything to chance. I'd rather have a few negative thoughts from time to time and resolve them as they come than fool myself into thinking that I'm living in la-la land and then after a few years find out that it has become hell on earth due to my neglect. It's like a garden; you need to maintain it. If you ignore the weeds, they'll eventually take over your garden. You can tell yourself that the weeds add charm and make your garden look more natural; that you're going for a "wild tropical look" or whatever, all part of the plan, but with that attitude, you're bound to fail. You'll just keep getting more of whatever it is that you neglect until it becomes unbearable.

chmod600 3y ago
Well, maybe or maybe not. A lot of the negative thoughts I have are somewhat fleeting, and if I revisit them the next day they seem pretty trivial and I could probably dismiss them sooner. Others might be more meaningful, perhaps a character flaw that you don't want to think about, but without really processing it it will never get fixed and keep causing more problems.
- manuelmoreale 3y ago
  The fleeting part is essentially what certain types of meditation are all about. Negative thoughts and emotions have to actively be fueled by something in order to persist. And if you spend some time by simply observing those thoughts from a non judgmental stand point they’ll quickly disappear.
  - soared 3y ago
    > Negative thoughts and emotions have to actively be fueled by something in order to persist. I don’t think that’s true right? Negative thoughts and emotions occur naturally. If you’re statement we’re true then positive thoughts have to be fueled by something to persist. So then what is fuel - any stimulus at all?
ipaddr 3y ago
The underlying issue is the thoughts. Once you have done all you can do many start worrying the future won't unfold as they predicted. Fool yourself into thinking you live in some hell on earth is worse than thinking you might be happy with your current situation.
- jongjong 3y ago
  I feel like happiness itself is also like a garden and needs to be maintained. You need to take intermittent breaks to look for weeds.
  - 3y ago

phnofive 3y ago

This study was measuring the effectiveness of trained suppression - not distraction or letting go, but specifically not imagining the event. I found it surprising, but at the same time avoidance might just have weakened the mental strength for doing exactly that.

camillomiller 3y ago

> Not to mention that Freud was a quack who was more prone to speculation than to science, so if traditional psychotherapy is based on his work then it is likely built on sand. Wow, that’s rich. Dismissing Freud like this is the most egregious way of conducting a discussion about these topics. Have you also ever thought that Mindfulness and CBT, while effective, are successful in a capitalistic society because ultimately convince us we can change to accept the fundamentals shortcomings and toxicities and inhumane dysfunctions of capitalism? Freud’s take on the mind was revolutionary, Mindfulness and CBT have a solid ground but have become a strong weapon in favor of the preservation of the status quo by convincing us we are just wrong in a perfectly fine environment (which in reality is not fine at all).

scns 3y ago
> Mindfulness and CBT have a solid ground but have become a strong weapon Have to disagree. A weapon is for fighting, and as Siddhartha Gautama said: "What you fight becomes stronger." They are tools IMHO that can help you, if you invest time and effort.
- camillomiller 3y ago
  Ok then let's put it this way. They became weaponized, because they have a great ability in convincing people they're in need of fixing, instead of questioning the dysfunctional and fundamentally unequal society we live in.
  - scns 3y ago
    I think you may be in fight mode and your perception is strongly coloured by it. > convincing people they're in need of fixing Holy smokes Siegmund! I think we all carry some form of trauma that is more than worth healing. I invested 21 years into it and am more than glad i did. Equality is a lovely ideal to strive towards. [Edit] add missing word
orwin 3y ago
I think I said it enough on this website, but my personal experience with 4 psychanalyst led me to believe this is a quackery, a pseudoscience, and actually harmful for people who have real mental issues. And I'm not talking about those weird ideas about autism, that anybody with a brain who worked with autistic children or adults would know to dismiss, or that dumb dream analysis, I'm talking about clinical psychoanalysis and it's 'practical' application. The fact is, solving bipolarity or schizophrenia with psychoanalysis is like solving cancer with homeopathy, except in the second case the practionners have a smudge of ethics and led their patient towards real medical praticiens once the issue is to big for them. Whereas psychanalyst try to extract the most money they can for 15 years, pass the patients between themselves to make the con last longer, and if they're lucky the patient miss their TS, go see a real doctor that in 5 (5!) minutes diagnose bipolarity, then in a day make a bloodtest to be certain, and prescribe lithium. Without mood crisis, the patient can live without pissing of friends and family, and has only lost 15 years and a dozen relationships. In other case, the patient kill themselves.

scns 3y ago

> Mindfulness for instance teaches you to "let go" of thoughts - which is really just a gentle form of suppression Have to disagree. To let go you have to acknowledge/accept the subject. Suppression misses this IMHO.