8 ms·

There might be a link between the groups responsible in a 1985 terrorist attack, and 38y later someone related to the movement being (allegedly) assassinated by

There might be a link between the groups responsible in a 1985 terrorist attack, and 38y later someone related to the movement being (allegedly) assassinated by the Indian government on Canadian soil. But regardless of the allegations against the assassination victim, India would have no right to kill someone on Canadian soil, no matter the justifications it might have. Extraterritorial killings are not justifiable, and definitely not by events that occurred 38y ago. Hopefully this is all false and India wasn't involved in the murder of this person. But if true, it's inexcusable and paints India in a very bad light in term of international reputation.

itsoktocry 3y ago
>and 38y later someone related to the movement being (allegedly) assassinated by the Indian government on Canadian soil. There was another "suspicious" event this morning (quotes because I don't understand the politics enough to make a judgement): https://www.business-standard.com/india-news/sukha-duneke-who-featured-on-nia-s-list-shot-dead-in-canada-s-winnipeg-123092100295_1.html https://www.business-standard.com/india-news/sukha-duneke-wh... The source definitely has a view, but "one person's freedom fighter..." and all that.
- rhaway84773 3y ago
  It’s irrelevant if they’re a freedom fighter or a terrorist. Extra judicial killings are not justified. I’m not sure if this particular killing was done by India, but either way it’s not great timing.
  - mortureb 3y ago
    It is if the nation harboring the terrorist refuses to cooperate with an interpol order related to murder and the person is actively killing politicians in your country. What exactly was India supposed to do since Canada refused to work with them? Sit on their hands and watch their elected reps get assassinated?
    - jltsiren 3y ago
      The accepted response is escalating the situation on the diplomatical level. Imposing sanctions if necessary. Getting other countries impose them as well. And, in extreme cases, trying to get the UN Security Council authorize military action.
      - pseg134 3y ago
        Well they killed him and haven’t had any real consequences so I would say killing him was also an accepted response. It was accepted by everyone realistically able to do anything about the situation.
        jltsiren 3y ago
        Not facing real immediate consequences is not the same as acceptance. Especially when we are talking about acceptance in the moral/normative sense. Besides, you should wait at least a decade or two before talking about consequences. Things don't change that quickly in international relations, because the stakes are so big. But they do change, as you can see from the relations between Russia and the West.
eklavya 3y ago
[flagged]
- AYBABTME 3y ago
  This is whataboutism, and you imply that extraterritorial killing by India on Canadian soil is ok, because Ben Laden. And so what new status quo are you suggesting by this? Ben Laden was a well known terrorist and the US never hid the fact that they went there and did that. If the same is happening here, why isn't India coming up clean and saying "yes we killed this guy because he was responsible in XYZ grave crime and sorry not sorry". That would at least be comparable to the "US/Ben Laden" parallel you're trying to make.
  - cudgy 3y ago
    Perhaps, the poster is referring to assassinations by the West being overlooked and/or justified while those committed by other countries are vilified and even an excuse for the West starting another war, killing millions of people in the name of vengeance. By the way, many “intrajudicial” killings are not justified either.
    - AYBABTME 3y ago
      > Perhaps, the poster is referring to assassinations by the West being overlooked and/or justified while those committed by other countries are vilified and even an excuse for the West starting another war, killing millions of people in the name of vengeance. The situations are different because in the case of Ben Laden, the intent of the US was well known and publicized, and there was an international warrant for his arrest, and the US never denied responsibility. As such I don't think it makes sense to compare the situations as if they were equal and that it represents an application of dual standards. I'm not saying it was ok (or not ok) to go for Ben Laden. I'm saying it's not a comparable situation. > By the way, many “intrajudicial” killings are not justified either. That's a political position which is defensible and thoroughly debated.
  - tyrd 3y ago
    So you do agree extraterrestrial killing are justified if the country says so in advance. So only India needs to do say aloud we are going to kill xyz and that is ok. No reputation lost am I right.
unsupp0rted 3y ago
> Hopefully this is all false Not hopefully for Trudeau. If he has no incontrovertible proof that the international community would accept, then this move should be the end of his political career in Canada. It won't be, but it should be.
- dirtyid 3y ago
  The allegations is tied to FVEY credibility at this point.
- busterarm 3y ago
  There's been seven or eight major scandals that should have been the end of his political career, but because of certain uncomfortable political realities he is immovable. He would have to voluntarily retire from his party and politics altogether...and unfortunately it seems like he likes power.
- momirlan 3y ago
  [flagged]
tyrd 3y ago
"The death of Ayman al-Zawahiri is a step toward a safer world. Canada will keep working with our global partners to counter terrorist threats, promote peace and security, and keep people here at home and around the world safe" -Justin Trudeau So extraterrestrial killing are fine when certain countries do it?
- AYBABTME 3y ago
  Whataboutism.
  - thrway63245 3y ago
    Teaching the masses this word is really an amazing victory by American propagandists. It can be used to instantly shut down any discussion and win any argument (if only in the eyes of the person using it).
    - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
      it can only be used to shut down whataboutism if literally all your arguments and all your discussions depend on your use of whataboutism, the problem and solution lie within yourself: conceive of affirmative arguments supporting your position which aren't logical fallacies, like whataboutism is
  - capdiz 3y ago
    Define Whataboutism? It is my father having a love child with the neighbour's wife while I get a ass whopping for sleeping with the maid. All jokes aside; I believe the western world set a dangerous precedent with the war on terror and the chickens are coming home to roost. Am fearful of what is to come in the future. Russia's war on Ukraine may end up emboldening nations to act as they please with regards to dissidents wherever they might be and this is a scary world that we moving into.
    - AYBABTME 3y ago
      Distraction from the relevant point by bringing up cases where the accusee might be construed as having performed the same act as the accused. It's a distraction because it detracts from whether the accused did or didn't do the act. And the matter here is whether India did it; distractions away from this question are either implying that they did it ("so what if I did, you did too"), or an attempt to throw off and confuse the conversations about it.
alephnerd 3y ago
He was implicated in this murder in 2022 - https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/conspiracy-to-kill-hindu-priest-nia-files-chargesheet-against-four-in-mohali-special-court-409775 https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/conspiracy-to-kill-... And a Congress Party MLA was murdered 2 days ago and the person who called the hit was in Canada as well - https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/chandigarh/congress-leader-shot-dead-moga-canada-gangster-arsh-dalla-responsibility-8946049/ https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/chandigarh/congress... The guy who called the hit - Arsh Dalla - is a known associate of Nijjar - https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/arsh-dalla-funded-gangsters-through-hawala-469305 https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/arsh-dalla-funded-g... To be fair, most Indian commentators also assumed the hit was indirectly called by the Indian govt when this happened. Especially after this former Khalistani turned BJP supporter was offed near the same Gurdawara a year ago by some hired hitmen - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ripudaman-singh-malik-killing-charges-1.6533769 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ripudaman-si... It's very much a tit-for-tat gang war that's being further enabled by black money, Punjabi politics, and clan politics (Jatt versus Bishnoi). So happy I don't live in Surrey anymore.
- AYBABTME 3y ago
  So I would expect that warrants would be issued, India and Canada would cooperate in the investigation and sentences would be handed by cooperating judicial systems. There's precedent for cross country justice being served. If this isn't working between Canada and India, it should be fixed. If Canada isn't cooperating where it ought, Canada should improve. I don't know anything about that. But was there an interpol warrant on this person?
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    > But was there an interpol warrant on this person? Yes [0] > would cooperate in the investigation and sentences would be handed by cooperating judicial systems They don't really cooperate. A lot of this is due to mutual red tape, and also because of jurisdictional issues (eg. is transnational crime under the CSIS, the RCMP, the Vancouver PD? Which court does it go to?) because Canada is very similar to India structurally (weird hyper-federalism mixed with federal powers attempting to further gain control). Also the Indian equivalent of law enforcement isn't the greatest either due to federal-state conflicts along with like 6-8 different competing federal law enforcement agencies, plus a couple national security ones. [0] - https://torontosun.com/news/national/what-we-know-about-slain-b-c-sikh-leader-hardeep-singh-nijjar https://torontosun.com/news/national/what-we-know-about-slai...

itsoktocry 3y ago

>and 38y later someone related to the movement being (allegedly) assassinated by the Indian government on Canadian soil. There was another "suspicious" event this morning (quotes because I don't understand the politics enough to make a judgement): https://www.business-standard.com/india-news/sukha-duneke-who-featured-on-nia-s-list-shot-dead-in-canada-s-winnipeg-123092100295_1.html https://www.business-standard.com/india-news/sukha-duneke-wh... The source definitely has a view, but "one person's freedom fighter..." and all that.

rhaway84773 3y ago
It’s irrelevant if they’re a freedom fighter or a terrorist. Extra judicial killings are not justified. I’m not sure if this particular killing was done by India, but either way it’s not great timing.
- mortureb 3y ago
  It is if the nation harboring the terrorist refuses to cooperate with an interpol order related to murder and the person is actively killing politicians in your country. What exactly was India supposed to do since Canada refused to work with them? Sit on their hands and watch their elected reps get assassinated?
  - jltsiren 3y ago
    The accepted response is escalating the situation on the diplomatical level. Imposing sanctions if necessary. Getting other countries impose them as well. And, in extreme cases, trying to get the UN Security Council authorize military action.
    - pseg134 3y ago
      Well they killed him and haven’t had any real consequences so I would say killing him was also an accepted response. It was accepted by everyone realistically able to do anything about the situation.
      - jltsiren 3y ago
        Not facing real immediate consequences is not the same as acceptance. Especially when we are talking about acceptance in the moral/normative sense. Besides, you should wait at least a decade or two before talking about consequences. Things don't change that quickly in international relations, because the stakes are so big. But they do change, as you can see from the relations between Russia and the West.

eklavya 3y ago

[flagged]

AYBABTME 3y ago
This is whataboutism, and you imply that extraterritorial killing by India on Canadian soil is ok, because Ben Laden. And so what new status quo are you suggesting by this? Ben Laden was a well known terrorist and the US never hid the fact that they went there and did that. If the same is happening here, why isn't India coming up clean and saying "yes we killed this guy because he was responsible in XYZ grave crime and sorry not sorry". That would at least be comparable to the "US/Ben Laden" parallel you're trying to make.
- cudgy 3y ago
  Perhaps, the poster is referring to assassinations by the West being overlooked and/or justified while those committed by other countries are vilified and even an excuse for the West starting another war, killing millions of people in the name of vengeance. By the way, many “intrajudicial” killings are not justified either.
  - AYBABTME 3y ago
    > Perhaps, the poster is referring to assassinations by the West being overlooked and/or justified while those committed by other countries are vilified and even an excuse for the West starting another war, killing millions of people in the name of vengeance. The situations are different because in the case of Ben Laden, the intent of the US was well known and publicized, and there was an international warrant for his arrest, and the US never denied responsibility. As such I don't think it makes sense to compare the situations as if they were equal and that it represents an application of dual standards. I'm not saying it was ok (or not ok) to go for Ben Laden. I'm saying it's not a comparable situation. > By the way, many “intrajudicial” killings are not justified either. That's a political position which is defensible and thoroughly debated.
- tyrd 3y ago
  So you do agree extraterrestrial killing are justified if the country says so in advance. So only India needs to do say aloud we are going to kill xyz and that is ok. No reputation lost am I right.

unsupp0rted 3y ago

> Hopefully this is all false Not hopefully for Trudeau. If he has no incontrovertible proof that the international community would accept, then this move should be the end of his political career in Canada. It won't be, but it should be.

dirtyid 3y ago
The allegations is tied to FVEY credibility at this point.
busterarm 3y ago
There's been seven or eight major scandals that should have been the end of his political career, but because of certain uncomfortable political realities he is immovable. He would have to voluntarily retire from his party and politics altogether...and unfortunately it seems like he likes power.
momirlan 3y ago
[flagged]

tyrd 3y ago

"The death of Ayman al-Zawahiri is a step toward a safer world. Canada will keep working with our global partners to counter terrorist threats, promote peace and security, and keep people here at home and around the world safe" -Justin Trudeau So extraterrestrial killing are fine when certain countries do it?

AYBABTME 3y ago
Whataboutism.
- thrway63245 3y ago
  Teaching the masses this word is really an amazing victory by American propagandists. It can be used to instantly shut down any discussion and win any argument (if only in the eyes of the person using it).
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    it can only be used to shut down whataboutism if literally all your arguments and all your discussions depend on your use of whataboutism, the problem and solution lie within yourself: conceive of affirmative arguments supporting your position which aren't logical fallacies, like whataboutism is
- capdiz 3y ago
  Define Whataboutism? It is my father having a love child with the neighbour's wife while I get a ass whopping for sleeping with the maid. All jokes aside; I believe the western world set a dangerous precedent with the war on terror and the chickens are coming home to roost. Am fearful of what is to come in the future. Russia's war on Ukraine may end up emboldening nations to act as they please with regards to dissidents wherever they might be and this is a scary world that we moving into.
  - AYBABTME 3y ago
    Distraction from the relevant point by bringing up cases where the accusee might be construed as having performed the same act as the accused. It's a distraction because it detracts from whether the accused did or didn't do the act. And the matter here is whether India did it; distractions away from this question are either implying that they did it ("so what if I did, you did too"), or an attempt to throw off and confuse the conversations about it.

alephnerd 3y ago

He was implicated in this murder in 2022 - https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/conspiracy-to-kill-hindu-priest-nia-files-chargesheet-against-four-in-mohali-special-court-409775 https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/conspiracy-to-kill-... And a Congress Party MLA was murdered 2 days ago and the person who called the hit was in Canada as well - https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/chandigarh/congress-leader-shot-dead-moga-canada-gangster-arsh-dalla-responsibility-8946049/ https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/chandigarh/congress... The guy who called the hit - Arsh Dalla - is a known associate of Nijjar - https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/arsh-dalla-funded-gangsters-through-hawala-469305 https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/arsh-dalla-funded-g... To be fair, most Indian commentators also assumed the hit was indirectly called by the Indian govt when this happened. Especially after this former Khalistani turned BJP supporter was offed near the same Gurdawara a year ago by some hired hitmen - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ripudaman-singh-malik-killing-charges-1.6533769 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ripudaman-si... It's very much a tit-for-tat gang war that's being further enabled by black money, Punjabi politics, and clan politics (Jatt versus Bishnoi). So happy I don't live in Surrey anymore.

AYBABTME 3y ago
So I would expect that warrants would be issued, India and Canada would cooperate in the investigation and sentences would be handed by cooperating judicial systems. There's precedent for cross country justice being served. If this isn't working between Canada and India, it should be fixed. If Canada isn't cooperating where it ought, Canada should improve. I don't know anything about that. But was there an interpol warrant on this person?
- alephnerd 3y ago
  > But was there an interpol warrant on this person? Yes [0] > would cooperate in the investigation and sentences would be handed by cooperating judicial systems They don't really cooperate. A lot of this is due to mutual red tape, and also because of jurisdictional issues (eg. is transnational crime under the CSIS, the RCMP, the Vancouver PD? Which court does it go to?) because Canada is very similar to India structurally (weird hyper-federalism mixed with federal powers attempting to further gain control). Also the Indian equivalent of law enforcement isn't the greatest either due to federal-state conflicts along with like 6-8 different competing federal law enforcement agencies, plus a couple national security ones. [0] - https://torontosun.com/news/national/what-we-know-about-slain-b-c-sikh-leader-hardeep-singh-nijjar https://torontosun.com/news/national/what-we-know-about-slai...