5 ms·

if we could somehow structure our incentives to be a net positive for humanity overall, we'd be in a much better spot

jjoonathan 3y ago
Yeah, but markets care less about what people want and more about what rich people want -- which, by and large, is to get paid for being rich.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Most of the money belongs to the middle class, not the rich. So that is what markets mostly work for.
  - mjamesaustin 3y ago
    The bottom 50% of the population holds 2.4% of all wealth. The top 10% holds 69%. https://www.stlouisfed.org/institute-for-economic-equity/the-state-of-us-wealth-inequality https://www.stlouisfed.org/institute-for-economic-equity/the...
    - twoodfin 3y ago
      Wealth (i.e. net worth) isn’t the relevant statistic for how much the market “cares” about a particular demographic. Aggregate disposable income is. A young doctor with $100k in med school loan debt is part of that “bottom 50%” of wealth but nonetheless an extremely attractive target for “the market”.
      - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y ago
        By default, company executives are beholden to the shareholders (i.e. the wealthy). In a healthy competitive market, they're also reactive to customer desires, but when they're presented with the opportunity to decrease competition through consolidation or other means, it's blatantly obvious where their true loyalties lie.
        bluGill 3y ago
        Most weath in retirement plans. Sure the rich hold them, but if you are reading this you probably have 401k and.are part of that.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y ago
    > Most of the money belongs to the middle class, not the rich. This is easily and provably false. A single-digit percentage of households holds over well over half the wealth.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
      We probably need to differentiate between spending and wealth ownership. Not sure how that breaks down.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    Most of the spending of the middle class, and all of the spending of the working class, is already spoken for. If you want to make money from the middle class, you have to do better at something than whoever is doing it now. If you want to make money from the rich, you just have to dream up some new twist on their wants (sure, it has to be executed reasonably well, but you're not competing in the same way). So sure, most of the money that changes hands does so via the daily/weekly/monthly spending of regular people. But that's not where the big money is unless you come up with a truly mass market new thing. The big money is in providing for the wants of the rich, because the marginal utility of what they spend on wants is so low to them.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      Or you make what the middle class spends money on. This is generally an easier path. Making something unique can make money, but generally it is safe to assume if nobody else is making it, it is because nobody wants it -not that you are the first with a new idea.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
        If the middle class spends money on it, then in general, someone is already making it, has established customers, distributors etc. This is a high barrier to entry.
  - throwaway_75369 3y ago
    For what it's worth, I (mostly) disagree with your detractors in the other comments and agree with your sentiment (I think). Markets care about "aggregate demand". Rich people can be lucrative individual customers because they have more to spend and often less price sensitivity. But they have limited capacity for consumption in many areas; they only eat three meals a day and only fill so many airline seats at once. The middle class and even lower classes have much higher capacity for consumption and are worth targeting - think McDonald's or even Google (advertisers want all the eyeballs they can get, even if they prefer wealthy ones)
  - smegger001 3y ago
    Sort of. Most the wealth may belong to the middle classes, but its wealth is inaccessible to them being locked into homes cars and 401k's.
- creato 3y ago
  I would bet 99% of people buying commercial airline tickets are nothing like the people you’re imagining (living primarily off investments?)

Yeah, but markets care less about what people want and more about what rich people want -- which, by and large, is to get paid for being rich.

bluGill 3y ago
Most of the money belongs to the middle class, not the rich. So that is what markets mostly work for.
- mjamesaustin 3y ago
  The bottom 50% of the population holds 2.4% of all wealth. The top 10% holds 69%. https://www.stlouisfed.org/institute-for-economic-equity/the-state-of-us-wealth-inequality https://www.stlouisfed.org/institute-for-economic-equity/the...
  - twoodfin 3y ago
    Wealth (i.e. net worth) isn’t the relevant statistic for how much the market “cares” about a particular demographic. Aggregate disposable income is. A young doctor with $100k in med school loan debt is part of that “bottom 50%” of wealth but nonetheless an extremely attractive target for “the market”.
    - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y ago
      By default, company executives are beholden to the shareholders (i.e. the wealthy). In a healthy competitive market, they're also reactive to customer desires, but when they're presented with the opportunity to decrease competition through consolidation or other means, it's blatantly obvious where their true loyalties lie.
      - bluGill 3y ago
        Most weath in retirement plans. Sure the rich hold them, but if you are reading this you probably have 401k and.are part of that.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y ago
  > Most of the money belongs to the middle class, not the rich. This is easily and provably false. A single-digit percentage of households holds over well over half the wealth.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    We probably need to differentiate between spending and wealth ownership. Not sure how that breaks down.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  Most of the spending of the middle class, and all of the spending of the working class, is already spoken for. If you want to make money from the middle class, you have to do better at something than whoever is doing it now. If you want to make money from the rich, you just have to dream up some new twist on their wants (sure, it has to be executed reasonably well, but you're not competing in the same way). So sure, most of the money that changes hands does so via the daily/weekly/monthly spending of regular people. But that's not where the big money is unless you come up with a truly mass market new thing. The big money is in providing for the wants of the rich, because the marginal utility of what they spend on wants is so low to them.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Or you make what the middle class spends money on. This is generally an easier path. Making something unique can make money, but generally it is safe to assume if nobody else is making it, it is because nobody wants it -not that you are the first with a new idea.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
      If the middle class spends money on it, then in general, someone is already making it, has established customers, distributors etc. This is a high barrier to entry.
- throwaway_75369 3y ago
  For what it's worth, I (mostly) disagree with your detractors in the other comments and agree with your sentiment (I think). Markets care about "aggregate demand". Rich people can be lucrative individual customers because they have more to spend and often less price sensitivity. But they have limited capacity for consumption in many areas; they only eat three meals a day and only fill so many airline seats at once. The middle class and even lower classes have much higher capacity for consumption and are worth targeting - think McDonald's or even Google (advertisers want all the eyeballs they can get, even if they prefer wealthy ones)
- smegger001 3y ago
  Sort of. Most the wealth may belong to the middle classes, but its wealth is inaccessible to them being locked into homes cars and 401k's.
creato 3y ago
I would bet 99% of people buying commercial airline tickets are nothing like the people you’re imagining (living primarily off investments?)