8 ms·

I'm reminded of a certain episode from The Office... People should be responsible for the machines they operate. North Carolina should be responsible for thei

by cma256 3y ago

I'm reminded of a certain episode from The Office... People should be responsible for the machines they operate. North Carolina should be responsible for their roadways. Google _should_ update their maps but that's aspirational. It's clearly a hard problem to solve when no data exists.

AlexandrB 3y ago
> People should be responsible for the machines they operate. Yes, but there are limits. E.g. if you're sold a car whose brakes are not fit for purpose, the manufacturer should bear some of the blame when you hit something. The alternative is that every consumer needs to be an expert (or consult an expert) before every purchase, which is a ton of friction for a functioning economy. I'm not sure how much blame Google should bear in this case, but that's why we have a court system.
- asddubs 3y ago
  if they were informed like the article says, I definitely think they should be liable to at least some extent.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- korse 3y ago
  I agree there are limits, but I think you are setting a pretty low bar with the given example. Just because they aren't designed to fly doesn't mean car acquisitions don't need to be 'pre-flighted' and taken for a shakedown cruise.
  - freejazz 3y ago
    What you are responding to is prima fascia defective product liability. Selling a car with malfunctioning breaks is the purchasers problem? I'm shocked
solardev 3y ago
I'm one of what Google calls a "Local Guide". All that means is that I'm active in Maps, frequently submitting fixes, closures, additions, pictures, and whatnot. I think it's really cool that Maps has these community features (and they're often more up to date than even OpenStreetMap). But the process is totally opaque. Sometimes you submit a random edit[1] and it shows up a minute later. Other times you can submit the same highly important edit (this road will be closed for months), multiple times, and it won't show up for months if ever. But beyond the initial confirmation that says thanks, they'll review it, nothing. No status updates unless it actually goes through. No request for additional evidence or denial with or without reason. Just silence a lot of times. I wish they'd provide followups and really allow the local guide community -- their volunteer boots on the ground "ground truth" team -- more transparency and proper change tracking. We want to help. We live in these places and use Maps multiple times a day. Maps's errors range from inconvenient to outright dangerous (my area has a bunch of fake stop signs that don't actually exist, and real stop signs that aren't on Maps, and I've nearly slammed on the brakes when it told me there's a stop sign when there isn't). And it's gotten a lot worse recently. Not sure if they're using more AI or whatever, but there's just wrong information everywhere, often for months if not years. I fix them every time I can, but the process is aggravatingly slow and seemingly random. It would be better to use peer local moderators instead of whatever invisible process they have now. They don't lack data. Even the article says they received reports. They lack a functional pipeline to vet and approve that data in a reasonably timely fashion. ------- [1] Side anecdote: One time, deep in my discontent during an election cycle, I marked a local political headquarter of one of the two major parties as a "Garbage Dump". It went through immediately and stayed for months, even making the local news. Every time you were in that area, the icon would prominently show up. Yep, political party X, still ever the dumpster fire. Got a kick outta that, heh. Sweet, petty digital vengeance.
- jraph 3y ago
  It really reads like you wish Google Maps were OSM. Why not contribute to an actually open database that benefits to everyone and takes your contributions seriously? (I personally don't think that Google, of all organizations, needs to be helped by unpaid volunteers - and they can import OSM themselves anyway if they choose to)
7e 3y ago
If Google was told multiple times of the error and didn’t update their map, well, that’s negligence. You can’t recall a paper map, but you can update an online map easily.
korse 3y ago
Never seen The Office, however 'people should be responsible for the machines they operate' is my exact feeling for a whole lot of technology. Thanks for the wording. I now have a concise way to voice my feelings about Autopilot regulation efforts!
- darknavi 3y ago
  https://youtu.be/DOW_kPzY_JY?t=27 https://youtu.be/DOW_kPzY_JY?t=27
freejazz 3y ago
>It's clearly a hard problem to solve when no data exists. If you read the article, Google had received reports that it was directing drivers to that collapsed bridge at least 2 years prior to this man's death, and google responded saying "they were looking into it".
SoftTalker 3y ago
Weirdly Google Maps usually knows about all the daily lane closures and closed exits on the interstate construction zones I drive through. Do state authorites have some kind of direct way to publish this information that mapping/navigation services can subscribe to? Or do they just rely on crowdsourcing this?
- jeffbee 3y ago
  Yes, there are APIs intended for governments, transit agencies, etc known as "content partners". https://contentpartners.maps.google.com/ https://contentpartners.maps.google.com/ https://support.google.com/mapcontentpartners/answer/144284?hl=en#zippy=%2Ctravel-restrictions-for-checkpoints-road-closures-border-and-road-restrictions https://support.google.com/mapcontentpartners/answer/144284?...

by cma256 3y ago

AlexandrB 3y ago

> People should be responsible for the machines they operate. Yes, but there are limits. E.g. if you're sold a car whose brakes are not fit for purpose, the manufacturer should bear some of the blame when you hit something. The alternative is that every consumer needs to be an expert (or consult an expert) before every purchase, which is a ton of friction for a functioning economy. I'm not sure how much blame Google should bear in this case, but that's why we have a court system.

asddubs 3y ago
if they were informed like the article says, I definitely think they should be liable to at least some extent.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
korse 3y ago
I agree there are limits, but I think you are setting a pretty low bar with the given example. Just because they aren't designed to fly doesn't mean car acquisitions don't need to be 'pre-flighted' and taken for a shakedown cruise.
- freejazz 3y ago
  What you are responding to is prima fascia defective product liability. Selling a car with malfunctioning breaks is the purchasers problem? I'm shocked

solardev 3y ago

I'm one of what Google calls a "Local Guide". All that means is that I'm active in Maps, frequently submitting fixes, closures, additions, pictures, and whatnot. I think it's really cool that Maps has these community features (and they're often more up to date than even OpenStreetMap). But the process is totally opaque. Sometimes you submit a random edit[1] and it shows up a minute later. Other times you can submit the same highly important edit (this road will be closed for months), multiple times, and it won't show up for months if ever. But beyond the initial confirmation that says thanks, they'll review it, nothing. No status updates unless it actually goes through. No request for additional evidence or denial with or without reason. Just silence a lot of times. I wish they'd provide followups and really allow the local guide community -- their volunteer boots on the ground "ground truth" team -- more transparency and proper change tracking. We want to help. We live in these places and use Maps multiple times a day. Maps's errors range from inconvenient to outright dangerous (my area has a bunch of fake stop signs that don't actually exist, and real stop signs that aren't on Maps, and I've nearly slammed on the brakes when it told me there's a stop sign when there isn't). And it's gotten a lot worse recently. Not sure if they're using more AI or whatever, but there's just wrong information everywhere, often for months if not years. I fix them every time I can, but the process is aggravatingly slow and seemingly random. It would be better to use peer local moderators instead of whatever invisible process they have now. They don't lack data. Even the article says they received reports. They lack a functional pipeline to vet and approve that data in a reasonably timely fashion. ------- [1] Side anecdote: One time, deep in my discontent during an election cycle, I marked a local political headquarter of one of the two major parties as a "Garbage Dump". It went through immediately and stayed for months, even making the local news. Every time you were in that area, the icon would prominently show up. Yep, political party X, still ever the dumpster fire. Got a kick outta that, heh. Sweet, petty digital vengeance.

jraph 3y ago
It really reads like you wish Google Maps were OSM. Why not contribute to an actually open database that benefits to everyone and takes your contributions seriously? (I personally don't think that Google, of all organizations, needs to be helped by unpaid volunteers - and they can import OSM themselves anyway if they choose to)

7e 3y ago

If Google was told multiple times of the error and didn’t update their map, well, that’s negligence. You can’t recall a paper map, but you can update an online map easily.

korse 3y ago

Never seen The Office, however 'people should be responsible for the machines they operate' is my exact feeling for a whole lot of technology. Thanks for the wording. I now have a concise way to voice my feelings about Autopilot regulation efforts!

darknavi 3y ago
https://youtu.be/DOW_kPzY_JY?t=27 https://youtu.be/DOW_kPzY_JY?t=27

freejazz 3y ago

>It's clearly a hard problem to solve when no data exists. If you read the article, Google had received reports that it was directing drivers to that collapsed bridge at least 2 years prior to this man's death, and google responded saying "they were looking into it".

SoftTalker 3y ago

Weirdly Google Maps usually knows about all the daily lane closures and closed exits on the interstate construction zones I drive through. Do state authorites have some kind of direct way to publish this information that mapping/navigation services can subscribe to? Or do they just rely on crowdsourcing this?

jeffbee 3y ago
Yes, there are APIs intended for governments, transit agencies, etc known as "content partners". https://contentpartners.maps.google.com/ https://contentpartners.maps.google.com/ https://support.google.com/mapcontentpartners/answer/144284?hl=en#zippy=%2Ctravel-restrictions-for-checkpoints-road-closures-border-and-road-restrictions https://support.google.com/mapcontentpartners/answer/144284?...