21 ms·

Google sued for negligence after man died following map directions

140 points by dimitropoulos 3y ago

tass 3y ago
So much negligence here, partly on Google but: “there were no barriers or warning signs along the washed-out roadway” for a road which was destroyed 9 years before.
- livefox 3y ago
  Exactly, Google for sure should have updated it but why had the city or even a concerned neighbor not put a fence or even a log or something there to block access to the bridge? A sign and a temporary barrier would have saved lives here. Hell non-locals might have driven off the thing without GPS help, depending on how the bridge looked from road-level
  - avereveard 3y ago
    The kind of person that plows trough bushes likely overlap with the kind that would remove the roadblock.
  - whylo 3y ago
    Apparently there were barricades but they'd been removed due to vandalism. No mention of how long they'd been missing though. https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article279563759.html https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/...
    - saalweachter 3y ago
      > But the barricades had been removed after being vandalized ... is this saying that, like, someone graffiti'd the concrete barriers in front of a collapsed bridge, and they took the barriers away leaving the collapsed bridge accessible? I'm trying to figure out how to parse this in a way that makes sense to do.
      - bewaretheirs 3y ago
        Indeed. Slapping a coat of beige paint over the graffiti has got to be easier than moving them.
        saalweachter 3y ago
        The older article, from 2022, says: > Even barricades that had previously warned drivers not to cross the bridge had been washed away, WCNC reported. https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article279563759.html https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/...
- caf 3y ago
  It is mind-boggling both that such a piece of destroyed public infrastructure can stay in that state for 9 years, and that no kind of safety barrier or even signage was put in place in that time.
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    The part that confuses me is: The North Carolina State Patrol had said the bridge was not maintained by local or state officials, and the original developer’s company had dissolved. So, nobody is maintaining the roads in that neighborhood? It makes very little sense. The roads in my neighborhood are owned and maintained by the neighborhood (not that state or county) and we (the HOA) carry liability insurance.
    - riku_iki 3y ago
      maybe there was no neighborhood, just some abandoned area
    - LeifCarrotson 3y ago
      It's the same as your neighborhood, but without the maintenance being performed. My little 15-unit private drive was a single homeowner's 25-acre plot in 1950. Someone built a house in the back, with a long driveway up to it. Then they sold three lots for others to build nearby, then in the 1970s they sold another dozen lots, including mine. In the 80s they pooled some money together and turned the gravel drive into a paved road, still private, we all just have an easement that allows us to drive on it. Now, 40 years later, that paved road needs repaving to the tune of $90,000, because tree roots are breaking it up and it's delaminating in spots from an inadequate repair job a decade ago. But try convincing 10 retirees with limited funds, and 5 families with small children, to each dig in their pockets and come up with $6,000 for a new driveway. Most people have bigger priorities, which is why there's currently a few nasty potholes on the route Google will suggest for you (the only route to my house). This is even worse, because a bridge like that probably costs a lot more than $90,000, and instead of 14 out of 15 people driving over it every day, most of the neighborhood residents don't need it.
- yreg 3y ago
  Why partly on Google? In my opinion it is obvious that marking / blocking off unsafe roads should be the full responsibility of a public institution. They cannot hand over any part of that responsibility to Google. What if someone drove through there without using a navigation / map? What if someone drove through there using an offline satnav with outdated maps? I would hope Google (or OpenStreetMaps!) is not legally responsible to keep their maps 100% updated and accurate, since it's impossible to do that.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    All car mounted navigation systems have the driver confirm, paraphrased, that they are aware the save operation of the vehicle is their sole responsibility.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - freejazz 3y ago
    Because they knew they were directing drivers to a collapsed bridge for 2 years and did nothing about it. Sure enough, someone eventually went over it. There is no legal principle saying that both Google and the municipality can't be jointly liable.
    - jjulius 3y ago
      Nine years, not two, according to the article.
      - debugnik 3y ago
        Two years prior they were notified of the issue by email. Nine years prior the bridge collapsed.
    - cromwellian 3y ago
      What if the guy was using paper maps? If this was 30 years ago would paper nap publisher be liable? When you are driving, you’re responsible for being aware of the road. If you drive over a dangerous road that has no visible signs of it being dangerous, then it’s the government’s fault, or if a private road, the owner’s fault.
internet2000 3y ago
This seems to be the bridge for context: https://maps.app.goo.gl/dtEvqS9iWUURUWM1A https://maps.app.goo.gl/dtEvqS9iWUURUWM1A Crazy it just has bushes blocking the way.
- skowron 3y ago
  Crazy that someone would just drive through those bushes...
  - pfannkuchen 3y ago
    New age life insurance fraud?
  - gwd 3y ago
    Did the driver come from that side, or the other side, which doesn't look like it has any bushes? The photo here has pretty clear barriers, but one of the articles posted elsewhere in the comments said that the barriers had been removed.
  - cornstalks 3y ago
    Were the bushes there in 2022? That picture is from 2023.
- eli 3y ago
  That picture is from May 2023. Seems safe to assume that additional barriers were added after the death in 2022.
- dathinab 3y ago
  the picture shows concrete barricades, too it also seems to have been taken after the accident
cma256 3y ago
I'm reminded of a certain episode from The Office... People should be responsible for the machines they operate. North Carolina should be responsible for their roadways. Google _should_ update their maps but that's aspirational. It's clearly a hard problem to solve when no data exists.
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  > People should be responsible for the machines they operate. Yes, but there are limits. E.g. if you're sold a car whose brakes are not fit for purpose, the manufacturer should bear some of the blame when you hit something. The alternative is that every consumer needs to be an expert (or consult an expert) before every purchase, which is a ton of friction for a functioning economy. I'm not sure how much blame Google should bear in this case, but that's why we have a court system.
  - asddubs 3y ago
    if they were informed like the article says, I definitely think they should be liable to at least some extent.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - korse 3y ago
    I agree there are limits, but I think you are setting a pretty low bar with the given example. Just because they aren't designed to fly doesn't mean car acquisitions don't need to be 'pre-flighted' and taken for a shakedown cruise.
    - freejazz 3y ago
      What you are responding to is prima fascia defective product liability. Selling a car with malfunctioning breaks is the purchasers problem? I'm shocked
- solardev 3y ago
LeifCarrotson 3y ago
Compare the satellite imagery from 2023, which clearly shows the bridge is out: https://i.imgur.com/WXIxLtp.jpg https://i.imgur.com/WXIxLtp.jpg with the Street View record from 2012: https://i.imgur.com/cen89bg.jpg https://i.imgur.com/cen89bg.jpg I agree that it's negligent to not have barriers or signs, and I feel terrible for the daughters and wife mourning the loss of their father, but I think it's shocking that someone would drive off a bridge that you can see is out from the air. For the past decade, hundreds to thousands of residents and delivery drivers and visitors to this neighborhood were likely given these same directions but did not die there. They saw that the bridge was out and turned around. It's a residential neighborhood; there will be no signage that says a child or dog is in the road! This is not a situation for an instruments-only landing in a plane, you have to keep your eyes outside the cockpit, even if your instruments say to drive on. Edit - I also find it interesting that Google's map still shows the road as connected, but (now) refuses to route you over it, while Bing Maps shows the road as disconnected: https://i.imgur.com/D9dRF1B.png https://i.imgur.com/D9dRF1B.png https://i.imgur.com/4NcTIxZ.png https://i.imgur.com/4NcTIxZ.png Maps link: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7815814,-81.2828119,82m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7815814,-81.2828119,82m/data...
- happytoexplain 3y ago
  I'm having trouble interpreting this: "I think it's shocking that someone would drive off a bridge that you can see is out from the air" Why are you equating air-visibility and ground-visibility? Holes/gaps are famously less visible from a shallow angle. Also, "everybody else avoided it" is a really poor defense. Most safety measures solve the 1-in-1000 or 1-in-100000 scenarios, not the 1-in-10 scenarios. Edit: Previously I said I agree that the driver's awareness played some part in the accident, but I failed to read about the extenuating conditions. I think this was nearly 0% the driver's fault.
- shaneoh 3y ago
  Could have easily been at night and/or during a heavy storm with very low visibility
  - 3y ago
mailund 3y ago
Me and a friend a mine were directed into a lake by google when biking across Denmark! We ended up having to backtrack quite a while back to get back to a road that didnt include quite as much swimming. Im still wondering why it was marked as a road, because it was straight through a wildlife reserve.
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  When driving across the US, google maps directed me down a narrow highway somewhere in Wyoming. After about 10-15km it got narrower, then turned to a gravel road, finally turning into a dirt road that would be impassible for my compact car. Had to backtrack a ways to get back to a main highway after that. > Im still wondering why it was marked as a road, because it was straight through a wildlife reserve. I wonder if this is one of those inaccuracies that map makers use to catch plagiarism[1]. [1] https://theweek.com/articles/466184/trap-streets-crafty-trick-mapmakers-use-fight-plagiarism https://theweek.com/articles/466184/trap-streets-crafty-tric...
- lsaferite 3y ago
  When I was a kid we stayed at a campground with the most beautifully crystal clear lake. There was a paved and marked road leading right into the lake and it continued until you couldn't see it anymore. I assume the road was there before the lake. I also assume the lake was from a dam somewhere downstream. Anyway, point being, it was a legit road straight into a lake. I can see that being a case where a mapping company might give bad directions.
belltaco 3y ago
That's really sad. I would've hoped that a 20 foot drop into water would be survivable given that a Tesla was driven off a cliff at 80mph and survived a 250ft drop into ground. There might be some element of luck involved with the angle of impact and what not.
- asddubs 3y ago
  It seems to be very shallow water, but it was pitch black, so maybe the husband just had a hard time orienting himself and getting out of the water
- drewbitt 3y ago
  He died via drowning, so survived but just couldn’t get out of the vehicle in time.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
parhamn 3y ago
This article has an image of the bridge (and the accident?): https://nbcnews.com/news/us-news/widow-man-died-driving-collapsed-bridge-sues-google-directing-rcna110616 https://nbcnews.com/news/us-news/widow-man-died-driving-coll... I assumed the bridge was much taller. The flipping of the car is very unfortunate.
karaterobot 3y ago
If Google Maps sends people across a bridge that has not existed for almost a decade, I wonder why there have not been many more such incidents. Likewise with the signage and barricades. Maybe this unfortunate story is a reminder that GPS navigation is just an assistant, and you should always pay attention to where it's telling you to go.
- dathinab 3y ago
  because normally broken roads get blocked of e.g. for bridges using concrete barricades and potential unmaintained off road roads tend to at least have warning signs and often are very obvious visible bad ideas to drive on so even if google routes people there they normally know better then to take that route through there had been all kind of cases like a (river) ferry being listed as a normal route in the map and people driving into the river at the ferry dock at night when the ferry was on the other side or people taking country side roads without any infrastructure they are guaranteed to get stuck one when they run out of gas because of navigation apps (not just google), like the app trying to send someone through the desert
namdnay 3y ago
https://www.google.com/help/terms_maps/ https://www.google.com/help/terms_maps/ > Actual Conditions; Assumption of Risk. When you use Google Maps/Google Earth's map data, traffic, directions, and other content, you may find that actual conditions differ from the map results and content, so exercise your independent judgment and use Google Maps/Google Earth at your own risk. You’re responsible at all times for your conduct and its consequences. this seems very obvious to me? i imagine "state of north carolina sued for allowing a dangerous abandoned bridge to stay connected to the public system" wouldn't make a nice juicy headline (and i imagine the state of north carolina has less money to throw at random lawsuits)
- 7e 3y ago
  Are you an attorney or judge?
  - loco5niner 3y ago
    He's suggesting that everyday people should just use their noggin, and that's basically what the terms are saying too.
    - 7e 3y ago
      That’s a presumptuous statement. The crash occurred at night in very poor weather. It was likely impossible to see the missing half of the bridge under those conditions. Everyone already uses common sense. That’s why it’s called common sense. Negligence is something else, and we can’t blame the victim without hearing all the facts here.
      - WalterBright 3y ago
        > impossible to see the missing half of the bridge If you can't see the road ahead as far as your stopping distance, you are negligent. If you are not watching the road ahead, you are negligent.
        3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
QuarterReptile 3y ago
The plaintiff is probably hoping to get a favorable hearing by finding only jurists who have Google directing people to drive through their driveways. It might work. Seriously though, why aren't they suing the negligent municipality? Clearly the lack of markings or barricades is the problem.
notacoward 3y ago
It's barely two days since I was saying right here that Google Maps's increasing awfulness had probably contributed to actual deaths. All of the Googlers (and Xooglers and wannabes) commenting here might try to minimize how much that was in this case, but I'm equally sure that there are many other cases. Building an app like this carries a responsibility to minimize likelihood of harm, no matter what the TOS says. Google is not doing that.
devmor 3y ago
I think this is far more on the shoulders of the local DOT for not having barricaded the roadway to begin with. However, anecdotally I once had Google direct me to take a right turn onto "Old Military Canal Road" off the side of an unlit, narrow, low bridge with no guardrails in the middle of the night. If I had not been extremely observant, I would have driven my car about 5 feet down into "Old Military Canal" and totaled it, possibly injuring and/or killing myself. I understand that there are terms & conditions that supposedly indemnify Google from these sort of mistakes, but I wonder if there is perhaps at least a moral duty for google to add some kind of UX alert when a user is being instructed to take routes that users do not normally take.
- kayodelycaon 3y ago
  There's a ford in one of the public parks I grew up near. When the river is low, it's a slightly damp concrete pad. When it's not, there can be several inches of fast flowing water. The warning signs aren't ideal because it's connected to a large parking lot.
freitzkriesler2 3y ago
I find this story hard to believe. If you go to Google streetview it shows that barriers are indeed present (time stamp of May 2023) as well as significant overgrowth behind said barriers. Address for the curious is 3844 23rd st ln NE hickory NC You can even see the barriers on bing maps. They're not big barriers and it looks possible to drive around them. What I think really happened was Mr Device Salesman in his "jeep gladiator" got cocky and tried to off road his vehicle because hey, it's a Jeep. Instead the drop in the road was hidden and he drove himself essentially off of a small cliff. The two problems here are: 1. Blindly following a GPS and not thinking critically about where you are going. 2. Trying to off road a vehicle without investigating the terrain prior to driving. I'd say this is a potential Darwin award. It's sad but a cautionary tale about not being a thinkless lemming with GPS tools and off roading.
- a1o 3y ago
  It was raining, night and the barriers weren't there in 2022. The bridge also has a very unfortunate still in place guard rails going from one side to the other, so only the bottom of the bridge is collapsed, which adds to the illusion that the bridge is still there in the previously mentioned conditions. :/
  - freitzkriesler2 3y ago
    There were already in place back in 2014 which you can observe on bing maps.
    - tredre3 3y ago
      Granted it's not mentioned in FTA, but the barricade was removed at the time of the accident. > Typically, barricades are in place to prevent drivers from crossing the bridge, North Carolina State Highway Patrol said. But the barricades had been removed after being vandalized and were missing at the time of Paxson’s wreck. https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article279563759.html https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/...
kristjansson 3y ago
Like a lot of failure, a few things going wrong at the same time. > Typically, barricades are in place to prevent drivers from crossing the bridge, North Carolina State Highway Patrol said. But the barricades had been removed after being vandalized and were missing at the time of Paxson’s wreck. [0]: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article279563759.html#storylink=cpy https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/...
- fdsalkjvlkj 3y ago
  That explains a lot! I was wondering how this only happened to one person and it took 9 years... Some idiot removed the barricade and then it only actually took 1 week.
zihotki 3y ago
In 2020 a person frooze to death in Syberia due to GMaps giving them a 'shortcut' via long time abandoned road (1). In a small country like Netherlands it also has issues of being up to date with road works and closures and that information is available well in advance. That looks like a general problem of keeping navigation information up to date. And I'm not sure if such problem has a good solution. Probably some motivation/regulation from a goverment is needed to ensure that map service providers are more reliable. 1 - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13438396/driver-18-froze-death-road-of-bones-sat-nav-google-maps/amp/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13438396/driver-18-froze-death...
- dathinab 3y ago
  In difference to this case cases like google routing people over ofroad countryside roads (e.g. through the middle of Australia, desert routes, tundra routes etc.) should be something you could/should be able to sue them over. But this case looks like the local government majorly fucking up. In general the maps are updated in many countries based on information from the respective department for road whatever. It pretty common that when random road closures are not in gmaps that it's because the respective official channels didn't publish that information. Like how is google supposed to know when a random road gets absconded, temporary closed, newly opened etc. if no one tells them? And random complains from people using the service aren't really a reliable (or trustable) source.
WalterBright 3y ago
"The Office" had an episode where two of the characters were following the navigator's driving instructions, and the instructions told them to turn right into a swamp. They got to arguing about it, one saying the instructions must be wrong, the other saying that the navigator could not possibly be wrong. They drove into the swamp. Now it has become real life.
- astrange 3y ago
  This actually happens pretty often - people will start a long route that goes through somewhere remote with no cell service (mountains, deserts, the outback…), find it's wrong because it's out of date or a road is washed out, and then get stuck because they can't reroute.
kristjansson 3y ago
From [0] > as well as three people who own or control the land on which the bridge on 24 Street Place NE sits. and from [1] >The lawsuit, which was filed Tuesday in Wake County, names Google and Google’s parent company Alphabet, Hickory businessman James Tarlton and the companies Tarde LLC and Hinckley Gauvain LLC as defendants. > Tarlton and the two companies are identified in the lawsuit as the owners of the bridge and the land near the bridge. That'd explain the abysmal handling of this from the city. City records don't seem to show that bridge as private, but I'm not sure? They do have a better view of the collapse though: https://arcgis2.catawbacountync.gov/newSetup/pictometry.html?x=-9048424.4017&y=4270606.0161target=%27mapWindow%27 https://arcgis2.catawbacountync.gov/newSetup/pictometry.html... [0]: https://nbcnews.com/news/us-news/widow-man-died-driving-collapsed-bridge-sues-google-directing-rcna110616 https://nbcnews.com/news/us-news/widow-man-died-driving-coll... [1]: https://hickoryrecord.com/news/local/crime-courts/google-hickory-businessman-sued-over-collapsed-bridge-death/article_fdbdbf18-57cf-11ee-899b-67e5bd62df73.html https://hickoryrecord.com/news/local/crime-courts/google-hic...
Exuma 3y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOW_kPzY_JY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOW_kPzY_JY
dathinab 3y ago
How do you drive of a multiple years ago collapsed bridge? I mean shouldn't the road to the bridge be blocked/fenced off? If not isn't that clear neglience of the state not Google? Sure Google routed someone to a path which didn't exist. But so could have someone using an older map or who hasn't been around for years. So either someone intentionally bypassed a road blockage. Or the land/state massively messed up by not blocking of a collapsed bridge. Through condolence to the family eitherway.
- dfdsafsadf2 3y ago
  The bridge was unmarked and wasn't barricaded. The court can assign partial liability to multiple negligent parties. The __average person__ expects Google Maps to be current, and Google Maps does provide minute-by-minute updates on traffic and road hazards. The __average person__ doesn't expect a paper map to be updated with the same frequency as Google. Downvote this if you feel that you know the legal standards that apply here, have read the article and disagree.
  - gretch 3y ago
    disclosure: I am not a lawyer and I have not studied frameworks associated with NC state. I'm a guy who reads books You keep describing the "average person", but this is not the framework that most law uses when considering negligence. Source: Cases and materials on TORTS; Epstein and Sharkey; 11th addition; page 139 "It is sometimes said that the study of negligence is the study of the mistakes a reasonable man might make." And then there's a lot more text that goes on to talk about what is 'reasonable' and not just 'average'. Also, just because the average person wouldn't be harmed does not mean a party would not be liable, because there are non-average people like blind people or old people who must be protected.
- error54 3y ago
  From the article: > State troopers who found Paxton’s body in his overturned and partially submerged truck had said there were no barriers or warning signs along the washed-out roadway. He had driven off an unguarded edge and crashed about 20 feet below
AlbertCory 3y ago
when I was in Maps, we heard about the call center that handled Maps complaints. As you can imagine, there are a lot of them. I suspect (with no current knowledge) that the complaint got lost; buried beneath a bunch of newer ones and forgotten. That is on Google. They have a system to handle things like that. The NC authorities were also negligent, not only for the roads and lack of signage, but for not notifying Google themselves. A letter from the state would carry some weight.
- dathinab 3y ago
  given that the road wasn't blocked of I suspect/speculate is that the local government wasn't reporting the bridge as broken for whatever reason and in turn it wasn't listed as broken with the state department responsible for infrastructure so when people reported it to google they checked back with the officials about how long the bridge will stay blocked and they got told "no the bridge is fine"
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    do you know that, or are you just guessing?
    - dathinab 3y ago
      > I suspect/speculate
SSchick 3y ago
Anecdote: I reported multiple places where google maps (or in this case the tesla navigation system which runs on the same) gives dangerous instructions. One of them is right here https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6293355,-122.1879246,112m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6293355,-122.1879246,112m/da... The assistant will tell you to stay keep left (which you don't have to since both lanes converge later) way too late, causing a lot of people to cross the median last second, this caused numerious accidents. I reported this condition twice, no actions on their end was taken. I'd consider this neglegent.
- thehappypm 3y ago
  Staying left is legal though?
  - SSchick 3y ago
    Maybe I didn't make it clear, people will be in the right lane and the assistant will instruct them last second to move to the left lane. This creates a dangerous situations as many US drivers do not care about traffic laws and cross the median. This is dangerous since this is generally unexpected to other drivers who will often have to sverve / brake to avoid collissions.
- nonfamous 3y ago
  A thought I might know where this is based on your description alone, and I was right, I think. I assume you're talking about the merge from 405N to 520E? I've thought the same thing about the wrong directions too.
- SSchick 3y ago
  Updated link since the first variant would not point to the location accurately for some reason.
- karussell 3y ago
  btw: Tesla navigation system is very likely based on OpenStreetMap data and not on Google (even though the map shown is a Google map)
SoftTalker 3y ago
Someone owns that land. That is the person or party who is ultimately responsible for allowing a hazard like that to exist for years without proper (or even any) safeguards, barriers, warning signs, etc.
murphyslab 3y ago
Google Maps should change the way that edits work. My experience suggests the current approach is to require independent verification, via volunteers, of too many user edits. If I were to update the hours of a local business with a photo, that gets addressed within a couple hours, since the photo offers a form of verification. But to correct the location of a feature often takes far longer. A pharmacy in my community had its location wrongly recorded in Google Maps, leading to people trying to drive through a very wrong route. The pharmacists himself had tried and couldn't change his business' location. I made the edit (as a "level 7 guide" for what it's worth) and even then it required another 50 days before it was verified. In that case, it was likely awaiting another user to verify. I checked the map today while thinking about it: Ten months later, the marker has been moved back, to the incorrect location! I fixed the pharmacy location because Google Maps was hurting my pharmacist, a good guy with a small business that I like. But to go out of my way to verify other edits, I'm not quite sure what the motivation is. Google should pay users -- offer some small remuneration -- for correct edits and for verification of edits. They already offer similar payment for information in other contexts: offering Google Play credits with their Google Rewards survey platform. Why not employ that on Google Maps, which is earning them around $5B/year? Another option might be to trust (then verify) for users who have a history of valid edits.
- jedberg 3y ago
  If I had to take a wild guess, your pharmacist's business is probably incorporated at the old address, and they haven't updated their incorporation documents. Google periodically pulls those from public records, and most likely this is why the marker moved back.
  - murphyslab 3y ago
    That's possible, however I'm not changing the address, I'm changing the position of the marker on the map by 70 metres. Google regularly tweaks marker coordinates, in order to provide better driving directions, without changing the address. Additionally, the wrong location, where the marker has reverted to, does not correspond to a building structure, rather it's in the middle of a greenspace. I've illustrated it here: https://i.imgur.com/kvYePAZ.png https://i.imgur.com/kvYePAZ.png All of the other markers I've included in the diagram match what is shown on Google Maps; they are correctly positioned at the structure where the organization is located. One oddity of the location is that it is like a campus, hence all of the buildings share the same street address, but with different unit numbers (e.g. 9999 Hacker Road #5 and 9999 Hacker Road #8).
mhandley 3y ago
Doesn't it at least seem odd that Google can't infer a road is impassable, when no vehicle it has been navigating has ever made it across the bridge in the last nine years? Seems like something that shouldn't be impossibly hard for them to figure out. Edit: or maybe they have inferred it's impassible, but occasionally send someone that way to see if it's been fixed?
- crazygringo 3y ago
  It does seem extremely odd. I always assumed Google detects things like temporary road closures because suddenly nobody is crossing a common road, in order to reroute people. Does it not? And if it does, wouldn't it be doing the same thing to detect more permanent road closures in less busy locations?
WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
Where I live there's a disused pedestrian/cycling bridge over a river, with no paved road whatsoever leading to it on one side. There's a mud "road" there which I wouldn't risk driving on in anything other than a tank or a tractor (my farmer neighbor does drive his tractor there and across water, so there's that). The bridge has never been made for use by vehicles other than bicycles since its inception. Nevertheless, when trying for navigation guidance to the street on the other bank of the river, many map applications insisted I could drive right across that disused bridge. Until recently, only OpenStreetMap and Google Maps presented the correct information. Apple Maps, TomTom, and Sygic all insisted I had to drive right across mud and the disused bridge (that would not be suitable for a car anyway). These maps also reported there had been a street in the other part of the town where there was only barely a boundary between two fields. I've been reporting this via Apple Maps feedback, complete with photos, for three years straight with no response whatsoever. I think one of my feedbacks just had been closed. Then a year ago Apple Maps got refreshed and their data sources got better, at least now they don't show roads where there are none. Google Maps used to navigate me in the wrong directions on one-way streets months, if not years, after the changes had been made. They also seem to choose the shittiest routes ever when driving from any A to B, like the narrowest unmaintained countryside roads with steep gradients, and ETA seems to be drugs-induced fiction, like their information on speed limits and the actual speed attainable on those roads is waaaay off. OSMAnd and OSM data in general is way better, I only wish it was recalculating the routes faster. Oh, and live traffic information. I'm glad at least there's some movement to have some accountability about that clusterfuck. But then again, whom am I kidding, that won't move the needle in ad sales so nobody's giving a shit.
junon 3y ago
As much as I dislike Google at a very deep level, this isn't Google's fault. That's like saying everyone who searches "how to dispose of a body" after murdering someone is somehow Google's fault. Apple Maps's app icon showed a route off of a bridge for the longest time. Is Apple liable if people drive off a bridge, then? I feel for the deceased's family but the local government or state government are at fault here.
ar_lan 3y ago
I'm curious of the legal implications and how this would play out, but I don't really think I understand how Google is responsible here. Was the driver not paying attention? IIUC Maps TOS calls out that actual conditions may differ from their updates. I wouldn't think Google is responsible when there is an accident in front of me on the road. If anything, this just calls out maybe Google Maps is not as accurate as people always believe. There are competitors to use instead. It's also free - unless guaranteed as a public utility, I'm not sure I buy that there is any responsibility on Google here at all beyond "make sure to update regularly." This really seems like it falls squarely on the driver (pay attention to road conditions, people!) and maybe the local government responsible for the bridge/roads.
- FartyMcFarter 3y ago
  > I don't really think I understand how Google is responsible here. Was the driver not paying attention? I would blame the government for not closing off the road before I would blame the driver.
Pyrodogg 3y ago
I won't put all of my issue on Google maps, also the County takes a big share. But when I was visiting my hometown recently I heard about a bridge that had been taken out months previously and was in the process of being replaced. None of the signs said "bridge out" just "road closed ahead". The state maps that overlayed the area but about another project showed no information about the bridge being out for most of a year. Google happily routed over the bridge that had been out for months. I reported it but haven't followed up on it. It's open again now recently. It's almost like no one wanted to acknowledge the bridge being out even though it got reported in local media early on. I can hardly believe there was no barrier to a drop from a missing bridge. I mean people can easily do worse driving off of a paved roadway but to being continuing on a what seems like a safe path is just nuts.
Zak 3y ago
Google street view pre-collapse: https://maps.app.goo.gl/dnt6aztvp4rjLmHx6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/dnt6aztvp4rjLmHx6 Bing street view post-collapse: https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=c3224526-5ada-4a41-b8f7-e854f676b4ec&cp=35.781173~-81.283444&lvl=12.68&dir=49.5&pi=6.6&style=x&imgid=b9a61493-da8c-4931-a23c-c1233c7ce475&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027 https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=c3224526-5ada-4a41-b8f7-e854f... Openstreetmap shows the road divided by the creek: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/35.78149/-81.28311 https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/35.78149/-81.28311 Looking at the street views, I think it would be pretty hard for someone driving safely not to see the washed out bridge from far enough to stop. The speed limit is 25 MPH, the road is straight, and the bridge is downhill from either side.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  I'm looking at that Bing link and concluding the exact opposite. Because news reports say the barricades had been removed and were missing. And he was driving at night and in the rain. And there are no streetlights there. It's a tiny short collapsed area that you're easily just not going to see until it's too late. You might notice that a patch of the road appears darker but assume it was recently resurfaced black asphalt or something -- not that the road was entirely missing. Depth perception doesn't work on a pitch black area of vision.
  - lsaferite 3y ago
    Looking at the images, I'm confused how he drowned in that stream.
    - everforward 3y ago
      Look how high the banks are, and they're not undercut. The water must be getting up near that level with some amount of frequency to erode it like that. This looks like a lowpoint for a fairly wide area, so this creek is collecting rainwater over a pretty substantial plain. The creek is also wider upstream and dramatically narrows under the bridge. I wouldn't be surprised if that creek got 10 feet deep in heavy rain. There was a similar creek by my grandparents house that would get something like 15 feet deep and flood out the road.
crazygringo 3y ago
Google is still providing driving directions over the collapsed bridge: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/35.7822529,-81.2819178/3834+23rd+St+Ln+NE,+Hickory,+NC+28601/@35.7815752,-81.2852615,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x88513a70f9d86d29:0xa4c28a1fdca4a979!2m2!1d-81.2828632!2d35.7809196!3e0?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/dir/35.7822529,-81.2819178/3834+... I got the location from LeifCarrotson on this comments page, who helpfully provided a link to the bridge in 3D Maps mode where you can clearly see the collapse: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7815814,-81.2828119,82m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7815814,-81.2828119,82m/data... (I'm writing this comment as root-level rather than replying to LeifCarrotson, for higher visibility, so people can see this is still not a fixed problem.)
- FartyMcFarter 3y ago
  How has that road not been closed off?? That's the bigger news here.
  - RandallBrown 3y ago
    It was in the Bing street view. I wonder how the signs got removed. https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=c3224526-5ada-4a41-b8f7-e854f676b4ec&cp=35.781173~-81.283444&lvl=12.68&dir=49.5&pi=6.6&style=x&imgid=b9a61493-da8c-4931-a23c-c1233c7ce475&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027 https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=c3224526-5ada-4a41-b8f7-e854f...
    - crazygringo 3y ago
      "Typically, barricades are in place to prevent drivers from crossing the bridge, North Carolina State Highway Patrol said. But the barricades had been removed after being vandalized and were missing at the time of Paxson’s wreck." https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article279563759.html https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/... I can't find any reference to who removed the barricades, but that seems like the main criminally negligent action to me here. That's obviously going to get someone killed -- and it did.
spaceguillotine 3y ago
This is what happened when they cut back on staff maintaining map accuracy and went to the community model with MapMaker. This team was way larger than 200 during my time there a decade ago and guess what? 2 years and you get the boot because they don't wanna pay to hire people who could actually do the work consistently. I loved working on POIs and Local. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/23/technology/google-maps-workers-office.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/23/technology/google-maps-wo... Apple Maps is eating their lunch right now and OSM is way prettier. Google tried to focus on charging large businesses like home depot to do internal store mapping instead of getting the best data they could for routing, the internal rule was if its within 100 feet it was close enough.
- mmanfrin 3y ago
  > Apple Maps is eating their lunch right now Source? Literally every single person I know on iOS still uses Google Maps because it is significantly better.
- ak217 3y ago
  Just to make this more explicit for those following along... this is just another aspect of Google's TVC (temporary, vendor and contractor) caste system. Google's full-time workforce is supported by a larger shadow workforce of contractors who are treated as disposable and routinely denied basic workplace protections. I know TVCs who were illegally denied access to basic workplace facilities like bathrooms while required to work at a Google office. (I do think Google Maps is still generally better than Apple Maps and OSM, but I want the TVC situation to be recognized.)
danielvf 3y ago
Here's the timeline: - Bridge collapsed in a neighborhood in 2013 - Bridge was owned by the neighborhood, not the government. - There was some kind of heavy barrier blocking the bridge, but it was washed away at some point in the past. - There was some kind of barricade/signage after that, but it was removed by vandals. - The man, while following google maps late on rainy night, drove off the collapsed bridge, into the water and died. No barriers were present. - Neighbors (not the HOA) have added heavy concrete barriers since the accident.
corbezzoli 3y ago
What an absolute joke. Google is not god. They cannot possibly ensure that all of their data is correct. Give that the local government neglected this road for years without placing a single permanent market to close off the road, I’m going to assume that they also never reported the road as closed. Legally, Google should be in the clear. Technically, I hate that Google won’t take such reports, because I encountered the exact same situation before (except I did not drive through)
- wslh 3y ago
  Not really. When you are the size of Google you should be responsible. If they cannot ensure that Google Maps data is correct they pay the issue in fines. I see very basic issues with Google Maps that are not addressed that make me think they are not caring enough about the quality of the product. I imagine that a company that produced so many cutting edge stuff could handle this kind of problems. They also bought Waze to have realtime information.
  - corbezzoli 3y ago
    I agree they could definitely do a better job if they were benevolent, but keeping the whole world up to date is an immense task and it would be unsound to be punished for not being good enough at it.
say_it_as_it_is 3y ago
Man walks into a pole while reading TikTok, dies of excessive bleeding from head injruy. Family sues TikTok.
aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 3y ago
https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/05/americas/brazil-wrong-directions-death/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/05/americas/brazil-wrong-directi... "Waze app directions take woman to wrong Brazil address, where she is killed"
m463 3y ago
I've always wondered why there wasn't more direct feedback built into any and every system like this. For example, why doesn't telsa have a direct feedback button, clearly marked for all. This would highlight problems with things on a map, things missing from a map, invalid, non-optimal or dangerous routing, and more? I've wondered this will all KINDS of systems. why not flag suspicious product or restaurant reviews? Why can't you highlight spelling or grammatical errors directly in the kindle app - as errors?
AverageDude 3y ago
Slightly offtopic but I find Apple maps to be way better than Google maps. Their lane by lane directions are amazing. Most of the time you don’t even have to look at the phone. Whereas google has their weird way of zooming in and out and often a bit late. My success rate of not missing a turn is way higher on Apple maps and than on Google maps.
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morpheuskafka 3y ago
Some context. This road is entirely outside the city limits of Hickory (the city's zoning ETJ extends to one side of the creek in question). In NC, only cities and the state maintain roads, not counties. Outside of a city, almost all roads outside of a neighborhood are state "secondary routes," which have a number but are referred to by name. Some neighborhood roads are, and some aren't. This one is not, and apparently no private entity is actively maintaining it. These "orphan roads" have become a statewide problem. Normally, the issue is not as severe as this--just a road that needs paving. The rule is that NCDOT will usually accept the road, but only after it is fully maintained. Wake County has a program to fund this and assess a special tax on the owners to repay the cost: https://www.wake.gov/departments-government/planning-development-inspections/planning/orphan-roads https://www.wake.gov/departments-government/planning-develop... Good image of bridge in 2021: http://gis.catawbacountync.gov/_TileStitch/printn7q2sl.jpg http://gis.catawbacountync.gov/_TileStitch/printn7q2sl.jpg City Limits (dark) and ETJ (light): http://gis.catawbacountync.gov/_TileStitch/printszuxzi.jpg http://gis.catawbacountync.gov/_TileStitch/printszuxzi.jpg

140 points by dimitropoulos 3y ago

tass 3y ago

So much negligence here, partly on Google but: “there were no barriers or warning signs along the washed-out roadway” for a road which was destroyed 9 years before.

livefox 3y ago
Exactly, Google for sure should have updated it but why had the city or even a concerned neighbor not put a fence or even a log or something there to block access to the bridge? A sign and a temporary barrier would have saved lives here. Hell non-locals might have driven off the thing without GPS help, depending on how the bridge looked from road-level
- avereveard 3y ago
  The kind of person that plows trough bushes likely overlap with the kind that would remove the roadblock.
- whylo 3y ago
  Apparently there were barricades but they'd been removed due to vandalism. No mention of how long they'd been missing though. https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article279563759.html https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/...
  - saalweachter 3y ago
    > But the barricades had been removed after being vandalized ... is this saying that, like, someone graffiti'd the concrete barriers in front of a collapsed bridge, and they took the barriers away leaving the collapsed bridge accessible? I'm trying to figure out how to parse this in a way that makes sense to do.
    - bewaretheirs 3y ago
      Indeed. Slapping a coat of beige paint over the graffiti has got to be easier than moving them.
      - saalweachter 3y ago
        The older article, from 2022, says: > Even barricades that had previously warned drivers not to cross the bridge had been washed away, WCNC reported. https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article279563759.html https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/...
caf 3y ago
It is mind-boggling both that such a piece of destroyed public infrastructure can stay in that state for 9 years, and that no kind of safety barrier or even signage was put in place in that time.
- alistairSH 3y ago
  The part that confuses me is: The North Carolina State Patrol had said the bridge was not maintained by local or state officials, and the original developer’s company had dissolved. So, nobody is maintaining the roads in that neighborhood? It makes very little sense. The roads in my neighborhood are owned and maintained by the neighborhood (not that state or county) and we (the HOA) carry liability insurance.
  - riku_iki 3y ago
    maybe there was no neighborhood, just some abandoned area
  - LeifCarrotson 3y ago
    It's the same as your neighborhood, but without the maintenance being performed. My little 15-unit private drive was a single homeowner's 25-acre plot in 1950. Someone built a house in the back, with a long driveway up to it. Then they sold three lots for others to build nearby, then in the 1970s they sold another dozen lots, including mine. In the 80s they pooled some money together and turned the gravel drive into a paved road, still private, we all just have an easement that allows us to drive on it. Now, 40 years later, that paved road needs repaving to the tune of $90,000, because tree roots are breaking it up and it's delaminating in spots from an inadequate repair job a decade ago. But try convincing 10 retirees with limited funds, and 5 families with small children, to each dig in their pockets and come up with $6,000 for a new driveway. Most people have bigger priorities, which is why there's currently a few nasty potholes on the route Google will suggest for you (the only route to my house). This is even worse, because a bridge like that probably costs a lot more than $90,000, and instead of 14 out of 15 people driving over it every day, most of the neighborhood residents don't need it.
yreg 3y ago
Why partly on Google? In my opinion it is obvious that marking / blocking off unsafe roads should be the full responsibility of a public institution. They cannot hand over any part of that responsibility to Google. What if someone drove through there without using a navigation / map? What if someone drove through there using an offline satnav with outdated maps? I would hope Google (or OpenStreetMaps!) is not legally responsible to keep their maps 100% updated and accurate, since it's impossible to do that.
- hef19898 3y ago
  All car mounted navigation systems have the driver confirm, paraphrased, that they are aware the save operation of the vehicle is their sole responsibility.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- freejazz 3y ago
  Because they knew they were directing drivers to a collapsed bridge for 2 years and did nothing about it. Sure enough, someone eventually went over it. There is no legal principle saying that both Google and the municipality can't be jointly liable.
  - jjulius 3y ago
    Nine years, not two, according to the article.
    - debugnik 3y ago
      Two years prior they were notified of the issue by email. Nine years prior the bridge collapsed.
  - cromwellian 3y ago
    What if the guy was using paper maps? If this was 30 years ago would paper nap publisher be liable? When you are driving, you’re responsible for being aware of the road. If you drive over a dangerous road that has no visible signs of it being dangerous, then it’s the government’s fault, or if a private road, the owner’s fault.

internet2000 3y ago

This seems to be the bridge for context: https://maps.app.goo.gl/dtEvqS9iWUURUWM1A https://maps.app.goo.gl/dtEvqS9iWUURUWM1A Crazy it just has bushes blocking the way.

skowron 3y ago
Crazy that someone would just drive through those bushes...
- pfannkuchen 3y ago
  New age life insurance fraud?
- gwd 3y ago
  Did the driver come from that side, or the other side, which doesn't look like it has any bushes? The photo here has pretty clear barriers, but one of the articles posted elsewhere in the comments said that the barriers had been removed.
- cornstalks 3y ago
  Were the bushes there in 2022? That picture is from 2023.
eli 3y ago
That picture is from May 2023. Seems safe to assume that additional barriers were added after the death in 2022.
dathinab 3y ago
the picture shows concrete barricades, too it also seems to have been taken after the accident

cma256 3y ago

I'm reminded of a certain episode from The Office... People should be responsible for the machines they operate. North Carolina should be responsible for their roadways. Google _should_ update their maps but that's aspirational. It's clearly a hard problem to solve when no data exists.

AlexandrB 3y ago
> People should be responsible for the machines they operate. Yes, but there are limits. E.g. if you're sold a car whose brakes are not fit for purpose, the manufacturer should bear some of the blame when you hit something. The alternative is that every consumer needs to be an expert (or consult an expert) before every purchase, which is a ton of friction for a functioning economy. I'm not sure how much blame Google should bear in this case, but that's why we have a court system.
- asddubs 3y ago
  if they were informed like the article says, I definitely think they should be liable to at least some extent.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- korse 3y ago
  I agree there are limits, but I think you are setting a pretty low bar with the given example. Just because they aren't designed to fly doesn't mean car acquisitions don't need to be 'pre-flighted' and taken for a shakedown cruise.
  - freejazz 3y ago
    What you are responding to is prima fascia defective product liability. Selling a car with malfunctioning breaks is the purchasers problem? I'm shocked
solardev 3y ago

LeifCarrotson 3y ago

Compare the satellite imagery from 2023, which clearly shows the bridge is out: https://i.imgur.com/WXIxLtp.jpg https://i.imgur.com/WXIxLtp.jpg with the Street View record from 2012: https://i.imgur.com/cen89bg.jpg https://i.imgur.com/cen89bg.jpg I agree that it's negligent to not have barriers or signs, and I feel terrible for the daughters and wife mourning the loss of their father, but I think it's shocking that someone would drive off a bridge that you can see is out from the air. For the past decade, hundreds to thousands of residents and delivery drivers and visitors to this neighborhood were likely given these same directions but did not die there. They saw that the bridge was out and turned around. It's a residential neighborhood; there will be no signage that says a child or dog is in the road! This is not a situation for an instruments-only landing in a plane, you have to keep your eyes outside the cockpit, even if your instruments say to drive on. Edit - I also find it interesting that Google's map still shows the road as connected, but (now) refuses to route you over it, while Bing Maps shows the road as disconnected: https://i.imgur.com/D9dRF1B.png https://i.imgur.com/D9dRF1B.png https://i.imgur.com/4NcTIxZ.png https://i.imgur.com/4NcTIxZ.png Maps link: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7815814,-81.2828119,82m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7815814,-81.2828119,82m/data...

happytoexplain 3y ago
I'm having trouble interpreting this: "I think it's shocking that someone would drive off a bridge that you can see is out from the air" Why are you equating air-visibility and ground-visibility? Holes/gaps are famously less visible from a shallow angle. Also, "everybody else avoided it" is a really poor defense. Most safety measures solve the 1-in-1000 or 1-in-100000 scenarios, not the 1-in-10 scenarios. Edit: Previously I said I agree that the driver's awareness played some part in the accident, but I failed to read about the extenuating conditions. I think this was nearly 0% the driver's fault.
shaneoh 3y ago
Could have easily been at night and/or during a heavy storm with very low visibility
- 3y ago

mailund 3y ago

Me and a friend a mine were directed into a lake by google when biking across Denmark! We ended up having to backtrack quite a while back to get back to a road that didnt include quite as much swimming. Im still wondering why it was marked as a road, because it was straight through a wildlife reserve.

AlexandrB 3y ago
When driving across the US, google maps directed me down a narrow highway somewhere in Wyoming. After about 10-15km it got narrower, then turned to a gravel road, finally turning into a dirt road that would be impassible for my compact car. Had to backtrack a ways to get back to a main highway after that. > Im still wondering why it was marked as a road, because it was straight through a wildlife reserve. I wonder if this is one of those inaccuracies that map makers use to catch plagiarism[1]. [1] https://theweek.com/articles/466184/trap-streets-crafty-trick-mapmakers-use-fight-plagiarism https://theweek.com/articles/466184/trap-streets-crafty-tric...
lsaferite 3y ago
When I was a kid we stayed at a campground with the most beautifully crystal clear lake. There was a paved and marked road leading right into the lake and it continued until you couldn't see it anymore. I assume the road was there before the lake. I also assume the lake was from a dam somewhere downstream. Anyway, point being, it was a legit road straight into a lake. I can see that being a case where a mapping company might give bad directions.

belltaco 3y ago

That's really sad. I would've hoped that a 20 foot drop into water would be survivable given that a Tesla was driven off a cliff at 80mph and survived a 250ft drop into ground. There might be some element of luck involved with the angle of impact and what not.

asddubs 3y ago
It seems to be very shallow water, but it was pitch black, so maybe the husband just had a hard time orienting himself and getting out of the water
drewbitt 3y ago
He died via drowning, so survived but just couldn’t get out of the vehicle in time.
deleted 3y ago
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parhamn 3y ago

This article has an image of the bridge (and the accident?): https://nbcnews.com/news/us-news/widow-man-died-driving-collapsed-bridge-sues-google-directing-rcna110616 https://nbcnews.com/news/us-news/widow-man-died-driving-coll... I assumed the bridge was much taller. The flipping of the car is very unfortunate.

karaterobot 3y ago

If Google Maps sends people across a bridge that has not existed for almost a decade, I wonder why there have not been many more such incidents. Likewise with the signage and barricades. Maybe this unfortunate story is a reminder that GPS navigation is just an assistant, and you should always pay attention to where it's telling you to go.

dathinab 3y ago
because normally broken roads get blocked of e.g. for bridges using concrete barricades and potential unmaintained off road roads tend to at least have warning signs and often are very obvious visible bad ideas to drive on so even if google routes people there they normally know better then to take that route through there had been all kind of cases like a (river) ferry being listed as a normal route in the map and people driving into the river at the ferry dock at night when the ferry was on the other side or people taking country side roads without any infrastructure they are guaranteed to get stuck one when they run out of gas because of navigation apps (not just google), like the app trying to send someone through the desert

namdnay 3y ago

https://www.google.com/help/terms_maps/ https://www.google.com/help/terms_maps/ > Actual Conditions; Assumption of Risk. When you use Google Maps/Google Earth's map data, traffic, directions, and other content, you may find that actual conditions differ from the map results and content, so exercise your independent judgment and use Google Maps/Google Earth at your own risk. You’re responsible at all times for your conduct and its consequences. this seems very obvious to me? i imagine "state of north carolina sued for allowing a dangerous abandoned bridge to stay connected to the public system" wouldn't make a nice juicy headline (and i imagine the state of north carolina has less money to throw at random lawsuits)

7e 3y ago
Are you an attorney or judge?
- loco5niner 3y ago
  He's suggesting that everyday people should just use their noggin, and that's basically what the terms are saying too.
  - 7e 3y ago
    That’s a presumptuous statement. The crash occurred at night in very poor weather. It was likely impossible to see the missing half of the bridge under those conditions. Everyone already uses common sense. That’s why it’s called common sense. Negligence is something else, and we can’t blame the victim without hearing all the facts here.
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      > impossible to see the missing half of the bridge If you can't see the road ahead as far as your stopping distance, you are negligent. If you are not watching the road ahead, you are negligent.
      - 3y ago

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QuarterReptile 3y ago

The plaintiff is probably hoping to get a favorable hearing by finding only jurists who have Google directing people to drive through their driveways. It might work. Seriously though, why aren't they suing the negligent municipality? Clearly the lack of markings or barricades is the problem.

notacoward 3y ago

It's barely two days since I was saying right here that Google Maps's increasing awfulness had probably contributed to actual deaths. All of the Googlers (and Xooglers and wannabes) commenting here might try to minimize how much that was in this case, but I'm equally sure that there are many other cases. Building an app like this carries a responsibility to minimize likelihood of harm, no matter what the TOS says. Google is not doing that.

devmor 3y ago

I think this is far more on the shoulders of the local DOT for not having barricaded the roadway to begin with. However, anecdotally I once had Google direct me to take a right turn onto "Old Military Canal Road" off the side of an unlit, narrow, low bridge with no guardrails in the middle of the night. If I had not been extremely observant, I would have driven my car about 5 feet down into "Old Military Canal" and totaled it, possibly injuring and/or killing myself. I understand that there are terms & conditions that supposedly indemnify Google from these sort of mistakes, but I wonder if there is perhaps at least a moral duty for google to add some kind of UX alert when a user is being instructed to take routes that users do not normally take.

kayodelycaon 3y ago
There's a ford in one of the public parks I grew up near. When the river is low, it's a slightly damp concrete pad. When it's not, there can be several inches of fast flowing water. The warning signs aren't ideal because it's connected to a large parking lot.

freitzkriesler2 3y ago

I find this story hard to believe. If you go to Google streetview it shows that barriers are indeed present (time stamp of May 2023) as well as significant overgrowth behind said barriers. Address for the curious is 3844 23rd st ln NE hickory NC You can even see the barriers on bing maps. They're not big barriers and it looks possible to drive around them. What I think really happened was Mr Device Salesman in his "jeep gladiator" got cocky and tried to off road his vehicle because hey, it's a Jeep. Instead the drop in the road was hidden and he drove himself essentially off of a small cliff. The two problems here are: 1. Blindly following a GPS and not thinking critically about where you are going. 2. Trying to off road a vehicle without investigating the terrain prior to driving. I'd say this is a potential Darwin award. It's sad but a cautionary tale about not being a thinkless lemming with GPS tools and off roading.

a1o 3y ago
It was raining, night and the barriers weren't there in 2022. The bridge also has a very unfortunate still in place guard rails going from one side to the other, so only the bottom of the bridge is collapsed, which adds to the illusion that the bridge is still there in the previously mentioned conditions. :/
- freitzkriesler2 3y ago
  There were already in place back in 2014 which you can observe on bing maps.
  - tredre3 3y ago
    Granted it's not mentioned in FTA, but the barricade was removed at the time of the accident. > Typically, barricades are in place to prevent drivers from crossing the bridge, North Carolina State Highway Patrol said. But the barricades had been removed after being vandalized and were missing at the time of Paxson’s wreck. https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article279563759.html https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/...

kristjansson 3y ago

Like a lot of failure, a few things going wrong at the same time. > Typically, barricades are in place to prevent drivers from crossing the bridge, North Carolina State Highway Patrol said. But the barricades had been removed after being vandalized and were missing at the time of Paxson’s wreck. [0]: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article279563759.html#storylink=cpy https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/...

fdsalkjvlkj 3y ago
That explains a lot! I was wondering how this only happened to one person and it took 9 years... Some idiot removed the barricade and then it only actually took 1 week.

zihotki 3y ago

In 2020 a person frooze to death in Syberia due to GMaps giving them a 'shortcut' via long time abandoned road (1). In a small country like Netherlands it also has issues of being up to date with road works and closures and that information is available well in advance. That looks like a general problem of keeping navigation information up to date. And I'm not sure if such problem has a good solution. Probably some motivation/regulation from a goverment is needed to ensure that map service providers are more reliable. 1 - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13438396/driver-18-froze-death-road-of-bones-sat-nav-google-maps/amp/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13438396/driver-18-froze-death...

dathinab 3y ago
In difference to this case cases like google routing people over ofroad countryside roads (e.g. through the middle of Australia, desert routes, tundra routes etc.) should be something you could/should be able to sue them over. But this case looks like the local government majorly fucking up. In general the maps are updated in many countries based on information from the respective department for road whatever. It pretty common that when random road closures are not in gmaps that it's because the respective official channels didn't publish that information. Like how is google supposed to know when a random road gets absconded, temporary closed, newly opened etc. if no one tells them? And random complains from people using the service aren't really a reliable (or trustable) source.

WalterBright 3y ago

"The Office" had an episode where two of the characters were following the navigator's driving instructions, and the instructions told them to turn right into a swamp. They got to arguing about it, one saying the instructions must be wrong, the other saying that the navigator could not possibly be wrong. They drove into the swamp. Now it has become real life.

astrange 3y ago
This actually happens pretty often - people will start a long route that goes through somewhere remote with no cell service (mountains, deserts, the outback…), find it's wrong because it's out of date or a road is washed out, and then get stuck because they can't reroute.

kristjansson 3y ago

From [0] > as well as three people who own or control the land on which the bridge on 24 Street Place NE sits. and from [1] >The lawsuit, which was filed Tuesday in Wake County, names Google and Google’s parent company Alphabet, Hickory businessman James Tarlton and the companies Tarde LLC and Hinckley Gauvain LLC as defendants. > Tarlton and the two companies are identified in the lawsuit as the owners of the bridge and the land near the bridge. That'd explain the abysmal handling of this from the city. City records don't seem to show that bridge as private, but I'm not sure? They do have a better view of the collapse though: https://arcgis2.catawbacountync.gov/newSetup/pictometry.html?x=-9048424.4017&y=4270606.0161target=%27mapWindow%27 https://arcgis2.catawbacountync.gov/newSetup/pictometry.html... [0]: https://nbcnews.com/news/us-news/widow-man-died-driving-collapsed-bridge-sues-google-directing-rcna110616 https://nbcnews.com/news/us-news/widow-man-died-driving-coll... [1]: https://hickoryrecord.com/news/local/crime-courts/google-hickory-businessman-sued-over-collapsed-bridge-death/article_fdbdbf18-57cf-11ee-899b-67e5bd62df73.html https://hickoryrecord.com/news/local/crime-courts/google-hic...

Exuma 3y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOW_kPzY_JY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOW_kPzY_JY

dathinab 3y ago

How do you drive of a multiple years ago collapsed bridge? I mean shouldn't the road to the bridge be blocked/fenced off? If not isn't that clear neglience of the state not Google? Sure Google routed someone to a path which didn't exist. But so could have someone using an older map or who hasn't been around for years. So either someone intentionally bypassed a road blockage. Or the land/state massively messed up by not blocking of a collapsed bridge. Through condolence to the family eitherway.

dfdsafsadf2 3y ago
The bridge was unmarked and wasn't barricaded. The court can assign partial liability to multiple negligent parties. The __average person__ expects Google Maps to be current, and Google Maps does provide minute-by-minute updates on traffic and road hazards. The __average person__ doesn't expect a paper map to be updated with the same frequency as Google. Downvote this if you feel that you know the legal standards that apply here, have read the article and disagree.
- gretch 3y ago
  disclosure: I am not a lawyer and I have not studied frameworks associated with NC state. I'm a guy who reads books You keep describing the "average person", but this is not the framework that most law uses when considering negligence. Source: Cases and materials on TORTS; Epstein and Sharkey; 11th addition; page 139 "It is sometimes said that the study of negligence is the study of the mistakes a reasonable man might make." And then there's a lot more text that goes on to talk about what is 'reasonable' and not just 'average'. Also, just because the average person wouldn't be harmed does not mean a party would not be liable, because there are non-average people like blind people or old people who must be protected.
error54 3y ago
From the article: > State troopers who found Paxton’s body in his overturned and partially submerged truck had said there were no barriers or warning signs along the washed-out roadway. He had driven off an unguarded edge and crashed about 20 feet below

AlbertCory 3y ago

when I was in Maps, we heard about the call center that handled Maps complaints. As you can imagine, there are a lot of them. I suspect (with no current knowledge) that the complaint got lost; buried beneath a bunch of newer ones and forgotten. That is on Google. They have a system to handle things like that. The NC authorities were also negligent, not only for the roads and lack of signage, but for not notifying Google themselves. A letter from the state would carry some weight.

dathinab 3y ago
given that the road wasn't blocked of I suspect/speculate is that the local government wasn't reporting the bridge as broken for whatever reason and in turn it wasn't listed as broken with the state department responsible for infrastructure so when people reported it to google they checked back with the officials about how long the bridge will stay blocked and they got told "no the bridge is fine"
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  do you know that, or are you just guessing?
  - dathinab 3y ago
    > I suspect/speculate

SSchick 3y ago

Anecdote: I reported multiple places where google maps (or in this case the tesla navigation system which runs on the same) gives dangerous instructions. One of them is right here https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6293355,-122.1879246,112m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6293355,-122.1879246,112m/da... The assistant will tell you to stay keep left (which you don't have to since both lanes converge later) way too late, causing a lot of people to cross the median last second, this caused numerious accidents. I reported this condition twice, no actions on their end was taken. I'd consider this neglegent.

thehappypm 3y ago
Staying left is legal though?
- SSchick 3y ago
  Maybe I didn't make it clear, people will be in the right lane and the assistant will instruct them last second to move to the left lane. This creates a dangerous situations as many US drivers do not care about traffic laws and cross the median. This is dangerous since this is generally unexpected to other drivers who will often have to sverve / brake to avoid collissions.
nonfamous 3y ago
A thought I might know where this is based on your description alone, and I was right, I think. I assume you're talking about the merge from 405N to 520E? I've thought the same thing about the wrong directions too.
SSchick 3y ago
Updated link since the first variant would not point to the location accurately for some reason.
karussell 3y ago
btw: Tesla navigation system is very likely based on OpenStreetMap data and not on Google (even though the map shown is a Google map)

SoftTalker 3y ago

Someone owns that land. That is the person or party who is ultimately responsible for allowing a hazard like that to exist for years without proper (or even any) safeguards, barriers, warning signs, etc.

murphyslab 3y ago

Google Maps should change the way that edits work. My experience suggests the current approach is to require independent verification, via volunteers, of too many user edits. If I were to update the hours of a local business with a photo, that gets addressed within a couple hours, since the photo offers a form of verification. But to correct the location of a feature often takes far longer. A pharmacy in my community had its location wrongly recorded in Google Maps, leading to people trying to drive through a very wrong route. The pharmacists himself had tried and couldn't change his business' location. I made the edit (as a "level 7 guide" for what it's worth) and even then it required another 50 days before it was verified. In that case, it was likely awaiting another user to verify. I checked the map today while thinking about it: Ten months later, the marker has been moved back, to the incorrect location! I fixed the pharmacy location because Google Maps was hurting my pharmacist, a good guy with a small business that I like. But to go out of my way to verify other edits, I'm not quite sure what the motivation is. Google should pay users -- offer some small remuneration -- for correct edits and for verification of edits. They already offer similar payment for information in other contexts: offering Google Play credits with their Google Rewards survey platform. Why not employ that on Google Maps, which is earning them around $5B/year? Another option might be to trust (then verify) for users who have a history of valid edits.

jedberg 3y ago
If I had to take a wild guess, your pharmacist's business is probably incorporated at the old address, and they haven't updated their incorporation documents. Google periodically pulls those from public records, and most likely this is why the marker moved back.
- murphyslab 3y ago
  That's possible, however I'm not changing the address, I'm changing the position of the marker on the map by 70 metres. Google regularly tweaks marker coordinates, in order to provide better driving directions, without changing the address. Additionally, the wrong location, where the marker has reverted to, does not correspond to a building structure, rather it's in the middle of a greenspace. I've illustrated it here: https://i.imgur.com/kvYePAZ.png https://i.imgur.com/kvYePAZ.png All of the other markers I've included in the diagram match what is shown on Google Maps; they are correctly positioned at the structure where the organization is located. One oddity of the location is that it is like a campus, hence all of the buildings share the same street address, but with different unit numbers (e.g. 9999 Hacker Road #5 and 9999 Hacker Road #8).

mhandley 3y ago

Doesn't it at least seem odd that Google can't infer a road is impassable, when no vehicle it has been navigating has ever made it across the bridge in the last nine years? Seems like something that shouldn't be impossibly hard for them to figure out. Edit: or maybe they have inferred it's impassible, but occasionally send someone that way to see if it's been fixed?

crazygringo 3y ago
It does seem extremely odd. I always assumed Google detects things like temporary road closures because suddenly nobody is crossing a common road, in order to reroute people. Does it not? And if it does, wouldn't it be doing the same thing to detect more permanent road closures in less busy locations?

WesolyKubeczek 3y ago

Where I live there's a disused pedestrian/cycling bridge over a river, with no paved road whatsoever leading to it on one side. There's a mud "road" there which I wouldn't risk driving on in anything other than a tank or a tractor (my farmer neighbor does drive his tractor there and across water, so there's that). The bridge has never been made for use by vehicles other than bicycles since its inception. Nevertheless, when trying for navigation guidance to the street on the other bank of the river, many map applications insisted I could drive right across that disused bridge. Until recently, only OpenStreetMap and Google Maps presented the correct information. Apple Maps, TomTom, and Sygic all insisted I had to drive right across mud and the disused bridge (that would not be suitable for a car anyway). These maps also reported there had been a street in the other part of the town where there was only barely a boundary between two fields. I've been reporting this via Apple Maps feedback, complete with photos, for three years straight with no response whatsoever. I think one of my feedbacks just had been closed. Then a year ago Apple Maps got refreshed and their data sources got better, at least now they don't show roads where there are none. Google Maps used to navigate me in the wrong directions on one-way streets months, if not years, after the changes had been made. They also seem to choose the shittiest routes ever when driving from any A to B, like the narrowest unmaintained countryside roads with steep gradients, and ETA seems to be drugs-induced fiction, like their information on speed limits and the actual speed attainable on those roads is waaaay off. OSMAnd and OSM data in general is way better, I only wish it was recalculating the routes faster. Oh, and live traffic information. I'm glad at least there's some movement to have some accountability about that clusterfuck. But then again, whom am I kidding, that won't move the needle in ad sales so nobody's giving a shit.

junon 3y ago

As much as I dislike Google at a very deep level, this isn't Google's fault. That's like saying everyone who searches "how to dispose of a body" after murdering someone is somehow Google's fault. Apple Maps's app icon showed a route off of a bridge for the longest time. Is Apple liable if people drive off a bridge, then? I feel for the deceased's family but the local government or state government are at fault here.

ar_lan 3y ago

I'm curious of the legal implications and how this would play out, but I don't really think I understand how Google is responsible here. Was the driver not paying attention? IIUC Maps TOS calls out that actual conditions may differ from their updates. I wouldn't think Google is responsible when there is an accident in front of me on the road. If anything, this just calls out maybe Google Maps is not as accurate as people always believe. There are competitors to use instead. It's also free - unless guaranteed as a public utility, I'm not sure I buy that there is any responsibility on Google here at all beyond "make sure to update regularly." This really seems like it falls squarely on the driver (pay attention to road conditions, people!) and maybe the local government responsible for the bridge/roads.

FartyMcFarter 3y ago
> I don't really think I understand how Google is responsible here. Was the driver not paying attention? I would blame the government for not closing off the road before I would blame the driver.

Pyrodogg 3y ago

I won't put all of my issue on Google maps, also the County takes a big share. But when I was visiting my hometown recently I heard about a bridge that had been taken out months previously and was in the process of being replaced. None of the signs said "bridge out" just "road closed ahead". The state maps that overlayed the area but about another project showed no information about the bridge being out for most of a year. Google happily routed over the bridge that had been out for months. I reported it but haven't followed up on it. It's open again now recently. It's almost like no one wanted to acknowledge the bridge being out even though it got reported in local media early on. I can hardly believe there was no barrier to a drop from a missing bridge. I mean people can easily do worse driving off of a paved roadway but to being continuing on a what seems like a safe path is just nuts.

Zak 3y ago

Google street view pre-collapse: https://maps.app.goo.gl/dnt6aztvp4rjLmHx6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/dnt6aztvp4rjLmHx6 Bing street view post-collapse: https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=c3224526-5ada-4a41-b8f7-e854f676b4ec&cp=35.781173~-81.283444&lvl=12.68&dir=49.5&pi=6.6&style=x&imgid=b9a61493-da8c-4931-a23c-c1233c7ce475&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027 https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=c3224526-5ada-4a41-b8f7-e854f... Openstreetmap shows the road divided by the creek: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/35.78149/-81.28311 https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/35.78149/-81.28311 Looking at the street views, I think it would be pretty hard for someone driving safely not to see the washed out bridge from far enough to stop. The speed limit is 25 MPH, the road is straight, and the bridge is downhill from either side.

crazygringo 3y ago
I'm looking at that Bing link and concluding the exact opposite. Because news reports say the barricades had been removed and were missing. And he was driving at night and in the rain. And there are no streetlights there. It's a tiny short collapsed area that you're easily just not going to see until it's too late. You might notice that a patch of the road appears darker but assume it was recently resurfaced black asphalt or something -- not that the road was entirely missing. Depth perception doesn't work on a pitch black area of vision.
- lsaferite 3y ago
  Looking at the images, I'm confused how he drowned in that stream.
  - everforward 3y ago
    Look how high the banks are, and they're not undercut. The water must be getting up near that level with some amount of frequency to erode it like that. This looks like a lowpoint for a fairly wide area, so this creek is collecting rainwater over a pretty substantial plain. The creek is also wider upstream and dramatically narrows under the bridge. I wouldn't be surprised if that creek got 10 feet deep in heavy rain. There was a similar creek by my grandparents house that would get something like 15 feet deep and flood out the road.

crazygringo 3y ago

Google is still providing driving directions over the collapsed bridge: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/35.7822529,-81.2819178/3834+23rd+St+Ln+NE,+Hickory,+NC+28601/@35.7815752,-81.2852615,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x88513a70f9d86d29:0xa4c28a1fdca4a979!2m2!1d-81.2828632!2d35.7809196!3e0?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/dir/35.7822529,-81.2819178/3834+... I got the location from LeifCarrotson on this comments page, who helpfully provided a link to the bridge in 3D Maps mode where you can clearly see the collapse: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7815814,-81.2828119,82m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7815814,-81.2828119,82m/data... (I'm writing this comment as root-level rather than replying to LeifCarrotson, for higher visibility, so people can see this is still not a fixed problem.)

FartyMcFarter 3y ago
How has that road not been closed off?? That's the bigger news here.
- RandallBrown 3y ago
  It was in the Bing street view. I wonder how the signs got removed. https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=c3224526-5ada-4a41-b8f7-e854f676b4ec&cp=35.781173~-81.283444&lvl=12.68&dir=49.5&pi=6.6&style=x&imgid=b9a61493-da8c-4931-a23c-c1233c7ce475&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027 https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=c3224526-5ada-4a41-b8f7-e854f...
  - crazygringo 3y ago
    "Typically, barricades are in place to prevent drivers from crossing the bridge, North Carolina State Highway Patrol said. But the barricades had been removed after being vandalized and were missing at the time of Paxson’s wreck." https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article279563759.html https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/... I can't find any reference to who removed the barricades, but that seems like the main criminally negligent action to me here. That's obviously going to get someone killed -- and it did.

spaceguillotine 3y ago

This is what happened when they cut back on staff maintaining map accuracy and went to the community model with MapMaker. This team was way larger than 200 during my time there a decade ago and guess what? 2 years and you get the boot because they don't wanna pay to hire people who could actually do the work consistently. I loved working on POIs and Local. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/23/technology/google-maps-workers-office.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/23/technology/google-maps-wo... Apple Maps is eating their lunch right now and OSM is way prettier. Google tried to focus on charging large businesses like home depot to do internal store mapping instead of getting the best data they could for routing, the internal rule was if its within 100 feet it was close enough.

mmanfrin 3y ago
> Apple Maps is eating their lunch right now Source? Literally every single person I know on iOS still uses Google Maps because it is significantly better.
ak217 3y ago
Just to make this more explicit for those following along... this is just another aspect of Google's TVC (temporary, vendor and contractor) caste system. Google's full-time workforce is supported by a larger shadow workforce of contractors who are treated as disposable and routinely denied basic workplace protections. I know TVCs who were illegally denied access to basic workplace facilities like bathrooms while required to work at a Google office. (I do think Google Maps is still generally better than Apple Maps and OSM, but I want the TVC situation to be recognized.)

danielvf 3y ago

Here's the timeline: - Bridge collapsed in a neighborhood in 2013 - Bridge was owned by the neighborhood, not the government. - There was some kind of heavy barrier blocking the bridge, but it was washed away at some point in the past. - There was some kind of barricade/signage after that, but it was removed by vandals. - The man, while following google maps late on rainy night, drove off the collapsed bridge, into the water and died. No barriers were present. - Neighbors (not the HOA) have added heavy concrete barriers since the accident.

corbezzoli 3y ago

What an absolute joke. Google is not god. They cannot possibly ensure that all of their data is correct. Give that the local government neglected this road for years without placing a single permanent market to close off the road, I’m going to assume that they also never reported the road as closed. Legally, Google should be in the clear. Technically, I hate that Google won’t take such reports, because I encountered the exact same situation before (except I did not drive through)

wslh 3y ago
Not really. When you are the size of Google you should be responsible. If they cannot ensure that Google Maps data is correct they pay the issue in fines. I see very basic issues with Google Maps that are not addressed that make me think they are not caring enough about the quality of the product. I imagine that a company that produced so many cutting edge stuff could handle this kind of problems. They also bought Waze to have realtime information.
- corbezzoli 3y ago
  I agree they could definitely do a better job if they were benevolent, but keeping the whole world up to date is an immense task and it would be unsound to be punished for not being good enough at it.

say_it_as_it_is 3y ago

Man walks into a pole while reading TikTok, dies of excessive bleeding from head injruy. Family sues TikTok.

aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 3y ago

https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/05/americas/brazil-wrong-directions-death/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/05/americas/brazil-wrong-directi... "Waze app directions take woman to wrong Brazil address, where she is killed"

m463 3y ago

I've always wondered why there wasn't more direct feedback built into any and every system like this. For example, why doesn't telsa have a direct feedback button, clearly marked for all. This would highlight problems with things on a map, things missing from a map, invalid, non-optimal or dangerous routing, and more? I've wondered this will all KINDS of systems. why not flag suspicious product or restaurant reviews? Why can't you highlight spelling or grammatical errors directly in the kindle app - as errors?

AverageDude 3y ago

Slightly offtopic but I find Apple maps to be way better than Google maps. Their lane by lane directions are amazing. Most of the time you don’t even have to look at the phone. Whereas google has their weird way of zooming in and out and often a bit late. My success rate of not missing a turn is way higher on Apple maps and than on Google maps.

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morpheuskafka 3y ago

Some context. This road is entirely outside the city limits of Hickory (the city's zoning ETJ extends to one side of the creek in question). In NC, only cities and the state maintain roads, not counties. Outside of a city, almost all roads outside of a neighborhood are state "secondary routes," which have a number but are referred to by name. Some neighborhood roads are, and some aren't. This one is not, and apparently no private entity is actively maintaining it. These "orphan roads" have become a statewide problem. Normally, the issue is not as severe as this--just a road that needs paving. The rule is that NCDOT will usually accept the road, but only after it is fully maintained. Wake County has a program to fund this and assess a special tax on the owners to repay the cost: https://www.wake.gov/departments-government/planning-development-inspections/planning/orphan-roads https://www.wake.gov/departments-government/planning-develop... Good image of bridge in 2021: http://gis.catawbacountync.gov/_TileStitch/printn7q2sl.jpg http://gis.catawbacountync.gov/_TileStitch/printn7q2sl.jpg City Limits (dark) and ETJ (light): http://gis.catawbacountync.gov/_TileStitch/printszuxzi.jpg http://gis.catawbacountync.gov/_TileStitch/printszuxzi.jpg