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I remember a time when online certificates was an anti signal. I think it still is in many startups. (Most people just hire on skill.)
by nwoli 3y ago
I remember a time when online certificates was an anti signal. I think it still is in many startups. (Most people just hire on skill.)
- meneer_oke 3y agoI don't remember the time that online certificates from MIT, Berkeley, etc would have been anti signals. https://www.edx.org/learn/computer-programming/massachusetts-institute-of-technology-introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming-7 https://www.edx.org/learn/computer-programming/massachusetts...
- saagarjha 3y agoNobody will fault you for learning programming through an online course. They will, however, mark you down for listing that on your resume as your sole programming experience.
- meneer_oke 3y agoDo you that course that I refer to? People within companies are all different, so we can't say. Some hiring managers might, others actually prefer no degree, others might focus more "shipped". It depends
- saagarjha 3y agoTo be clear I'm speaking generally, not on an individual basis. Everyone has their own preferences–I personally don't discount it. But in my experience the average hiring manager does, because certifications are often seen as a thing you just pay money for to get a piece of paper. Of course college degrees are like that too, but the quality of "big state school CS degree" is usually somewhat regulated and "big state school 6 month CS certification" is often not.
- meneer_oke 3y agoPlease take a look at the course. The courses from Berkeley, Harvard, Stanford, MIT are quite good. There is no paying, just knowledge.
- saagarjha 3y agoNo, I know about the courses. They're pretty good. I'm just saying that there's baggage attached to certificates from random courses, even if some of them are good.
- meneer_oke 3y agoI would agree, but the topic started with that they are anti signals.
- morelisp 3y agoYou're still not getting it. Taking the course is not a negative signal. Putting the course on your resume, as if that conveys useful information, is.
- meneer_oke 3y agoI think it's clear that you are not getting it, that is just your opinion. Are you a hiring manager? A you are hiring manager of the whole IT industry? Even in this thread there are many that have successfully landed great jobs with certificates on their resume.
- morelisp 3y agoOK, good luck.
- morelisp 3y agoHonestly, a full genuine undergrad CS degree from Harvard is nearly an anti-signal...
- meneer_oke 3y agoSeems even in this thread there are many without any certificate nor formal education. Would it be possible to explain how that is happening?
- morelisp 3y agoI have a formal CS education, although I've hired a bunch of people without. I'm just saying, a Harvard CS degree tells me either you're extremely bad with money, or you (or your parents) are more interested in social signalling than a thorough education. You also seem to be missing that the content associated with the certificate can be fine, but the validation process broken enough that the certificate per se (and therefore listing it on a resume) is worthless. (I prefer to hire based primarily on work samples or a take-home project.)
- meneer_oke 3y agoWell the context is online courses from Harvard, MIT. Such as the CS50 course referenced by many even in this thread. Those courses are free, there is a option for a certification for around 150 dollar. People actually learn the basics of CS and foundational knowledge in those courses. And how to use git and GitHub. I never stated that those certs, or courses alone would be enough. This comment thread started because someone called it anti-signal. Listing anything on a Resume is never pointless, it tells us something about the potential hire. Courses like the one mentioned are open, which means if you wanted to test that knowledge you could, easily. That could tell you so much about the potential hire: * Did they actually do the course. * Did they retain the information. * Did they understood the material. * How did they use the information, in their own projects or clients. From those answers you would even be able to learn more about their seniority level. The point is, "anti-signals" is just not everywhere the case. It might be for some, sure. But how many of those would like to see formal CS education? Seems that even you are more on the side of actual code examples. And in order to create great code, allot of deep knowledge is needed. Which those courses provide.
- flanked-evergl 3y ago> I remember a time when online certificates was an anti signal. I have never interviewed someone with many certifications and thought the person would be a good addition to a team, and I have never worked with someone who has many online certifications and thought they are good at the things they are certified in.
- treprinum 3y agoI have over 100 Coursera/edX/Udacity certificates and work on the bleeding edge of tech (AI). MIT's Underactuated Robotics got me into the first cohort of Udacity's Self-driving Car Nanodegree. I think you are shooting yourself in the feet if you plainly reject people like me who just want to keep learning new things.
- Waterluvian 3y agoThey’re not saying that though. They’re saying they’ve never experienced it being a positive signal. I haven’t either. But I don’t think we’re claiming people like you don’t exist and we’re not judging people because of their certs. Just observing the correlation. Edit: to add to this, you know what signal I’ve also never observed in 11 years? A PhD indicating someone will be an exceptional engineer.
- themoonisachees 3y agoI mean this in the nicest way possible. I genuinely have nothing agaisnt you and this is as far as I know the first time i've ever read one of your comments. You appear unsufferable. If i was in charge of deciding whether or not to hire you, I would not, based on this comment.
- l33t7332273 3y agoI agree with this sentiment. Something about the phrase “the bleeding edge of tech (AI)” is just very off putting.
- 3y ago