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Do bottling water actually consume a significant amount water vs like an average size farm? I personally thing bottled water is generally pretty unnecessary an

Do bottling water actually consume a significant amount water vs like an average size farm? I personally thing bottled water is generally pretty unnecessary and really wasteful to transport but I can’t help think the actual amount of water given people are drinking it not watering plants or showering with it is relatively small?

xattt 3y ago
Bottling water removes it from the local water cycle. If you are watering and showering, that water stays relatively local and ends up coming back into the local water system maintaining the local water table. If you are bottling water, you are effectively removing it from the local “water system” with no chance of it ever replenishing the source. Irrigation wells are not ideal either, and may be comparable in terms of ground water impact as bottling plants. These draw tremendous amounts of water. The water table drops quickly in this scenario with a slow rate of replenishment. There’s also the possibility of contaminants leaching into the aquifer when there is no hydraulic pressure to push back. My province is an island in the middle of an ocean, so infiltration of personal wells (ie for houses) with salt water is an issue when the water table is low. There is no quick fix for this either. Personal use should trump industrial use.
- pphysch 3y ago
  Sure but you could make the same argument about exporting food. Apples are 80-90% water
  - agarren 3y ago
    I’ve heard similar arguments made pretty regularly for almonds and especially alfalfa [0] grown in California or Arizona, and exported to Saudi Arabia. It seems legit to me. [0] https://azpbs.org/horizon/2022/06/saudi-water-deal-threatening-water-supply-in-phoenix/ https://azpbs.org/horizon/2022/06/saudi-water-deal-threateni...
  - imtringued 3y ago
    When animal feed is imported, the poop ends up in the importing country and the quantities aren't insignificant.
- nsonha 3y ago
  what is "local water"? The whole thing about water is that it flows. There isn't a magic property that bound water to a geographic localtion. Like when it rains, is it "local" cloud?
  - arwineap 3y ago
    Most Rivers flow through geographic locales, and generally their path is static There's not a whole lot of risk that the Seine will start flowing through the US The "local" clouds also usually follow a pattern, this is why my local mountains get snow replacing every year, which is the source of my local rivers However a bottling company could easily ship bottled water to a location that is likely never going to return to the local water table. Ever heard of Fiji brand water?
    - Aerroon 3y ago
      Where does that local water come from? Rain. Where did the rain cloud get the water? It evaporated, likely from the ocean. How did the water get into the ocean? It flowed down from lakes into rivers etc. The local water table might fall, but the water itself is hardly local unless you're drilling for it.
      - xattt 3y ago
        > Where does that local water come from? Rain There’s an equilibrium that’s achieved in a given watershed with local weather patterns. There might be ebbs or flows over the course of a year, but it’s reliable and predictable, and can be used sustainably. If local weather patterns change and there’s a significant strain on a watershed, the water table will drain to a level that’s not recoverable within a human lifespan.
  - troll_v_bridge 3y ago
    Helpful terms: Water table https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_table https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_table Watershed https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watershed_management https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watershed_management
- citrin_ru 3y ago
  Significant fraction of water spent to water plants evaporates and then falls as rain, usually far away, so it doesn’t stay in a local water system either.
- ipaddr 3y ago
  Do you realize your water comes from the ocean through rain. It replenishes itself everytime it rains. You are on an island in the ocean? In your case companies are using the allure of locale to sell more bottles by claiming the water is purer in your area because of the lack of industry.
  - lm28469 3y ago
    Do you realise this is much much more complex than that. Otherwise we'd literally never have any kind of water shortage, which we do have all the time
- lordfrito 3y ago
  > If you are bottling water, you are effectively removing it from the local “water system” with no chance of it ever replenishing the source. Sounds like the perfect solution to sea level rise caused by melting glaciers. Just bottle it all up. I can see it now "Every bottle of water sold fights you dealing with climate change!" /s
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    I mean isn't it? For all the ice on land that melts into the ocean raising the sea level, take an appropriate amount of seawater and freeze it back onto land. That might be too difficult though; maybe instead we can replace all of the oil underground with water. It's all underneath us anyways so just leave the hole open and water will naturally pool down there.
    - opwieurposiu 3y ago
      Most old oil fields already do this, it is called "enhanced recovery". You have injection wells where you pump down water and production wells where a water/oil mix comes up. The water you use is mostly contaminated stuff you want to get rid of any ways. You do have pump the water in under pressure though, just letting it pour down the hole will not work since rock is more dense the water. Imagine you were standing on a sponge in the shower, the sponge will not absorb much water since you are squishing all the pore spaces closed.
klyrs 3y ago
Many blame Nestlé as the root cause of the Flint water crisis: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/29/nestle-pays-200-a-year-to-bottle-water-near-flint-where-water-is-undrinkable https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/29/nestle-pays-... The question isn't if farming is technically worse on a global scale, it's whether each individual aquifer can sustain its output.
- Aerroon 3y ago
  That article is absurd. It opens with a mother talking about how she uses bottled water to bathe her child, because the tap water is polluted.Then it goes on to say that residents don't like that Nestle gets to bottle water in the area while their tap water sucks. I don't see how these two points are related. This sounds like a problem of incompetent politicians and officials that can't maintain water infrastructure. If anything they should be thankful companies like Nestle exist so that there's at least some source of clean drinking water for them since the city seems incapable of providing it.
  - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    Nestlé has been under constant boycott for 46 years, and couldn't seem to stop abusing mothers and their young children. Flint or not, I will never purchase or use a Nestlé product. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Nestl%C3%A9_boycott https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Nestl%C3%A9_boycott N.B. Nestlé sold their bottling operations in these USA, and no longer owns Arrowhead. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowhead_Water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowhead_Water
    - doublerabbit 3y ago
      Same. Recently discovered that Starbucks serves child-labour coffee owned by Nestle. [0] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/01/children-work-for-pittance-to-pick-coffee-beans-used-by-starbucks-and-nespresso https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/01/children-wo...
      - 3y ago

xattt 3y ago

Bottling water removes it from the local water cycle. If you are watering and showering, that water stays relatively local and ends up coming back into the local water system maintaining the local water table. If you are bottling water, you are effectively removing it from the local “water system” with no chance of it ever replenishing the source. Irrigation wells are not ideal either, and may be comparable in terms of ground water impact as bottling plants. These draw tremendous amounts of water. The water table drops quickly in this scenario with a slow rate of replenishment. There’s also the possibility of contaminants leaching into the aquifer when there is no hydraulic pressure to push back. My province is an island in the middle of an ocean, so infiltration of personal wells (ie for houses) with salt water is an issue when the water table is low. There is no quick fix for this either. Personal use should trump industrial use.

pphysch 3y ago
Sure but you could make the same argument about exporting food. Apples are 80-90% water
- agarren 3y ago
  I’ve heard similar arguments made pretty regularly for almonds and especially alfalfa [0] grown in California or Arizona, and exported to Saudi Arabia. It seems legit to me. [0] https://azpbs.org/horizon/2022/06/saudi-water-deal-threatening-water-supply-in-phoenix/ https://azpbs.org/horizon/2022/06/saudi-water-deal-threateni...
- imtringued 3y ago
  When animal feed is imported, the poop ends up in the importing country and the quantities aren't insignificant.
nsonha 3y ago
what is "local water"? The whole thing about water is that it flows. There isn't a magic property that bound water to a geographic localtion. Like when it rains, is it "local" cloud?
- arwineap 3y ago
  Most Rivers flow through geographic locales, and generally their path is static There's not a whole lot of risk that the Seine will start flowing through the US The "local" clouds also usually follow a pattern, this is why my local mountains get snow replacing every year, which is the source of my local rivers However a bottling company could easily ship bottled water to a location that is likely never going to return to the local water table. Ever heard of Fiji brand water?
  - Aerroon 3y ago
    Where does that local water come from? Rain. Where did the rain cloud get the water? It evaporated, likely from the ocean. How did the water get into the ocean? It flowed down from lakes into rivers etc. The local water table might fall, but the water itself is hardly local unless you're drilling for it.
    - xattt 3y ago
      > Where does that local water come from? Rain There’s an equilibrium that’s achieved in a given watershed with local weather patterns. There might be ebbs or flows over the course of a year, but it’s reliable and predictable, and can be used sustainably. If local weather patterns change and there’s a significant strain on a watershed, the water table will drain to a level that’s not recoverable within a human lifespan.
- troll_v_bridge 3y ago
  Helpful terms: Water table https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_table https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_table Watershed https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watershed_management https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watershed_management
citrin_ru 3y ago
Significant fraction of water spent to water plants evaporates and then falls as rain, usually far away, so it doesn’t stay in a local water system either.
ipaddr 3y ago
Do you realize your water comes from the ocean through rain. It replenishes itself everytime it rains. You are on an island in the ocean? In your case companies are using the allure of locale to sell more bottles by claiming the water is purer in your area because of the lack of industry.
- lm28469 3y ago
  Do you realise this is much much more complex than that. Otherwise we'd literally never have any kind of water shortage, which we do have all the time
lordfrito 3y ago
> If you are bottling water, you are effectively removing it from the local “water system” with no chance of it ever replenishing the source. Sounds like the perfect solution to sea level rise caused by melting glaciers. Just bottle it all up. I can see it now "Every bottle of water sold fights you dealing with climate change!" /s
- lesuorac 3y ago
  I mean isn't it? For all the ice on land that melts into the ocean raising the sea level, take an appropriate amount of seawater and freeze it back onto land. That might be too difficult though; maybe instead we can replace all of the oil underground with water. It's all underneath us anyways so just leave the hole open and water will naturally pool down there.
  - opwieurposiu 3y ago
    Most old oil fields already do this, it is called "enhanced recovery". You have injection wells where you pump down water and production wells where a water/oil mix comes up. The water you use is mostly contaminated stuff you want to get rid of any ways. You do have pump the water in under pressure though, just letting it pour down the hole will not work since rock is more dense the water. Imagine you were standing on a sponge in the shower, the sponge will not absorb much water since you are squishing all the pore spaces closed.

klyrs 3y ago

Many blame Nestlé as the root cause of the Flint water crisis: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/29/nestle-pays-200-a-year-to-bottle-water-near-flint-where-water-is-undrinkable https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/29/nestle-pays-... The question isn't if farming is technically worse on a global scale, it's whether each individual aquifer can sustain its output.

Aerroon 3y ago
That article is absurd. It opens with a mother talking about how she uses bottled water to bathe her child, because the tap water is polluted.Then it goes on to say that residents don't like that Nestle gets to bottle water in the area while their tap water sucks. I don't see how these two points are related. This sounds like a problem of incompetent politicians and officials that can't maintain water infrastructure. If anything they should be thankful companies like Nestle exist so that there's at least some source of clean drinking water for them since the city seems incapable of providing it.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  Nestlé has been under constant boycott for 46 years, and couldn't seem to stop abusing mothers and their young children. Flint or not, I will never purchase or use a Nestlé product. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Nestl%C3%A9_boycott https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Nestl%C3%A9_boycott N.B. Nestlé sold their bottling operations in these USA, and no longer owns Arrowhead. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowhead_Water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowhead_Water
  - doublerabbit 3y ago
    Same. Recently discovered that Starbucks serves child-labour coffee owned by Nestle. [0] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/01/children-work-for-pittance-to-pick-coffee-beans-used-by-starbucks-and-nespresso https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/01/children-wo...
    - 3y ago