7 ms·

as someone who has largely progressive values, I hesitate to call myself liberal anymore because of a lot of the downright embarrasing shit comming from the lef

as someone who has largely progressive values, I hesitate to call myself liberal anymore because of a lot of the downright embarrasing shit comming from the left these days. > The left talks about this all of the time, every time I've seen leftists talk about this. its always in the form of gaslighting men into blaming themselves for their failures. as if the k-12 educational system isn't currently stacked against them.

gopherthon 3y ago
[dead]
quantified 3y ago
Stacked against them more than girls? Explain please.
- danjoredd 3y ago
  Did you read the article you are commenting on? He mentions that schools don't service men very well and that most dropouts are men
  - quantified 3y ago
    > But overall, young men hit the labor market or college or whatever less well-prepared as a result of the education system. No facts about it, just some random assertion. Schools aren't going to change the way males relate to playing games, sports, and farting around in general compared with actually studying. What other part of the article did I miss? Oh, this: > the education system isn’t doing very well by lots of our boys and men now. We have a ten percentage point drop in the share of male teachers, incredible underinvestment in apprenticeships and vocational forms of learning, and all kinds of changes in school environments that mean that we’re not serving them very well. What changes in environments? Vocational means simply that boys don't do desks and paper well- is that true? Do male teachers make that much difference? The thrust here is that the economy has left men behind. Maybe that's true, which is more important.
    - danjoredd 3y ago
      >Do male teachers make that much difference? You would be surprised. A boy having a male mentor is extremely helpful. Oftentimes an adult male can connect with boys in ways that an adult female might have trouble with. Teachers, for better or worse, are mentors. They are who kids spend the most time around during school semesters, and where they receive the most instruction, outside of parents. Now don't get me wrong. Boys can absolutely succeed without a male teacher in their lives, and it's great that we have lots of female teachers. But it is absolutely helpful for a boy to have a man to look up to in some fashion. This article makes a lot of good points about it, though its more about mentorship in general instead of male mentorship: https://www.edutopia.org/blog/boys-need-power-of-mentoring-brian-sztabnik https://www.edutopia.org/blog/boys-need-power-of-mentoring-b...
      - PaulHoule 3y ago
        It's also a factor that many boys are growing up without a present father whether it is a single parent family or a multiple parent family where the father is working all the time, not emotionally available, etc. If they are not getting that role model it is all the more important that they get another role model.
    - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
      > Schools aren't going to change the way males relate to playing games, sports, and farting around in general compared with actually studying Sounds like you have already thought about this and came to a sexist conclusion.
    - cultofmetatron 3y ago
      > Do male teachers make that much difference? lets flip this around. lets say we live in an alternative universe where primary school is primarily male dominated. just drawing from your own life experience, would you ask if not having female teachers affects female students?
    - mortureb 3y ago
      [flagged]
  - dang 3y ago
    "Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that."" https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- wing-_-nuts 3y ago
  Girls mature faster, and learn differently. Frankly, a lot of boys simply cannot sit still in a classroom and listen to a boring lecture. They're going to be inattentive and they're going to have more behavioral issues. The solution is more hands on learning, and more physical activity. Gym class isn't even available to many kids anymore. Pretty much everyone should be getting an hour of physical activity a day and you could split that up into two 30 minute periods and have boys that are far more ready to actually pay attention in class. I'm speaking from my own experience with ADHD but I think it would generally help everyone.
  - klipklop 3y ago
    This mirrors my k-12 experience as well.
  - bloopernova 3y ago
    > Girls mature faster They act more mature because they're pressured to by society. I won't bombard you with articles but I urge you to look into the causes behind that saying.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - PaulHoule 3y ago
      They have a physical growth spurt before boys do, that's got nothing to do with "society".
- mortureb 3y ago
  Guys are in a vast majority of the case not conducive to being diminutive recipients. This doesn’t work well in the current educational paradigm.
rootusrootus 3y ago
It is one of the reasons I self-identify as an independent now, instead of a lifelong liberal. Somewhere along the line the left decided that the best way to achieve equality was to drag down the 'privileged' rather than elevating the disadvantaged. And they continue to wonder why the right has enjoyed such a resurgence across the world. Looking for any reason, any explanation that does not require a mirror.
norwalkbear 3y ago
It's why I am hard right now. I'm tired of being gaslighted and demonized. I grew up in Europe and was ultra liberal most of my youth.
- mortureb 3y ago
  The hard right comes with a bunch of nonsense like racism and generally serving the elite though which is a bad idea.
- vidanay 3y ago
  > It's why I am hard right now. Sentence structure man, sentence structure!
  - norwalkbear 3y ago
    Jokes man, jokes

gopherthon 3y ago

[dead]

quantified 3y ago

Stacked against them more than girls? Explain please.

danjoredd 3y ago
Did you read the article you are commenting on? He mentions that schools don't service men very well and that most dropouts are men
- quantified 3y ago
  > But overall, young men hit the labor market or college or whatever less well-prepared as a result of the education system. No facts about it, just some random assertion. Schools aren't going to change the way males relate to playing games, sports, and farting around in general compared with actually studying. What other part of the article did I miss? Oh, this: > the education system isn’t doing very well by lots of our boys and men now. We have a ten percentage point drop in the share of male teachers, incredible underinvestment in apprenticeships and vocational forms of learning, and all kinds of changes in school environments that mean that we’re not serving them very well. What changes in environments? Vocational means simply that boys don't do desks and paper well- is that true? Do male teachers make that much difference? The thrust here is that the economy has left men behind. Maybe that's true, which is more important.
  - danjoredd 3y ago
    >Do male teachers make that much difference? You would be surprised. A boy having a male mentor is extremely helpful. Oftentimes an adult male can connect with boys in ways that an adult female might have trouble with. Teachers, for better or worse, are mentors. They are who kids spend the most time around during school semesters, and where they receive the most instruction, outside of parents. Now don't get me wrong. Boys can absolutely succeed without a male teacher in their lives, and it's great that we have lots of female teachers. But it is absolutely helpful for a boy to have a man to look up to in some fashion. This article makes a lot of good points about it, though its more about mentorship in general instead of male mentorship: https://www.edutopia.org/blog/boys-need-power-of-mentoring-brian-sztabnik https://www.edutopia.org/blog/boys-need-power-of-mentoring-b...
    - PaulHoule 3y ago
      It's also a factor that many boys are growing up without a present father whether it is a single parent family or a multiple parent family where the father is working all the time, not emotionally available, etc. If they are not getting that role model it is all the more important that they get another role model.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    > Schools aren't going to change the way males relate to playing games, sports, and farting around in general compared with actually studying Sounds like you have already thought about this and came to a sexist conclusion.
  - cultofmetatron 3y ago
    > Do male teachers make that much difference? lets flip this around. lets say we live in an alternative universe where primary school is primarily male dominated. just drawing from your own life experience, would you ask if not having female teachers affects female students?
  - mortureb 3y ago
    [flagged]
- dang 3y ago
  "Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that."" https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
wing-_-nuts 3y ago
Girls mature faster, and learn differently. Frankly, a lot of boys simply cannot sit still in a classroom and listen to a boring lecture. They're going to be inattentive and they're going to have more behavioral issues. The solution is more hands on learning, and more physical activity. Gym class isn't even available to many kids anymore. Pretty much everyone should be getting an hour of physical activity a day and you could split that up into two 30 minute periods and have boys that are far more ready to actually pay attention in class. I'm speaking from my own experience with ADHD but I think it would generally help everyone.
- klipklop 3y ago
  This mirrors my k-12 experience as well.
- bloopernova 3y ago
  > Girls mature faster They act more mature because they're pressured to by society. I won't bombard you with articles but I urge you to look into the causes behind that saying.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    They have a physical growth spurt before boys do, that's got nothing to do with "society".
mortureb 3y ago
Guys are in a vast majority of the case not conducive to being diminutive recipients. This doesn’t work well in the current educational paradigm.

rootusrootus 3y ago

It is one of the reasons I self-identify as an independent now, instead of a lifelong liberal. Somewhere along the line the left decided that the best way to achieve equality was to drag down the 'privileged' rather than elevating the disadvantaged. And they continue to wonder why the right has enjoyed such a resurgence across the world. Looking for any reason, any explanation that does not require a mirror.

norwalkbear 3y ago

It's why I am hard right now. I'm tired of being gaslighted and demonized. I grew up in Europe and was ultra liberal most of my youth.

mortureb 3y ago
The hard right comes with a bunch of nonsense like racism and generally serving the elite though which is a bad idea.
vidanay 3y ago
> It's why I am hard right now. Sentence structure man, sentence structure!
- norwalkbear 3y ago
  Jokes man, jokes