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>The left talks about this all of the time They absolutely do NOT. The right has Jordan Peterson and a raft of people discussing men's issues. The left has N

>The left talks about this all of the time They absolutely do NOT. The right has Jordan Peterson and a raft of people discussing men's issues. The left has NO equivalent. The silence is deafening. If you dare to bring up men's issues in education, parental rights, etc, you get lumped in with the MRA wackadoodles. The left is especially harsh in silencing dissent, and frankly every time it happens, you're pushing people further into the arms of the right wing. Edit: exhibit A. This is the fastest I've had an innocuous comment go negative on hackernews. Tow the party line or be silenced I guess...

MattPalmer1086 3y ago
Agreed. The left is all about addressing minorities and feminism. While I support that, they do not talk about men's issues, about men for men.
- cultofmetatron 3y ago
  > The left is all about addressing minorities and feminism. they are all about addressing feminists and female minorities. I can tell you from my own experience, the vast majority of the left don't give a shit about minority men either.
tomtheelder 3y ago
This just doesn’t line up with my experience whatsoever. For my friends on the left it’s a common topic, and I see it discussed in left leaning publications all the time. I wonder when I see these characterizations of the left if they are coming from social media. I’m not on any social media aside from this site I guess, so I’m not sure if that’s what’s going on. The folks on the left that I interact with in real life are definitely a very big tent group.
- wing-_-nuts 3y ago
  What you're seeing is the support amongst your bros. That's great. That doesn't equate to discussion on 'the left'. You don't see it being discussed much in books, podcasts, blog posts, documentaries etc, except on the right.
  - tomtheelder 3y ago
    But I see it discussed in left leaning media all the time. Topics like male suicide rates, loneliness, and social pressure against showing emotion come up over and over again.
    - wing-_-nuts 3y ago
      Interesting, where do you see this discussed? I sub to r/bropill, they're a very positive men's support sub on reddit.
      - orwin 3y ago
        Just saw a reddit post about some 'Vaush' youtuber talking about the issue, maybe you should look into him?
    - nvm0n2 3y ago
      But the diagnosis of what causes those ills will be some variant of "men just suck and bring it on themselves, how can we help them be more like women?" What people mean here is talking about problems imposed on men by society and how to fix that, not discussion that merely boils down to repeating feminist talking points. For example, one issue affecting men is the way they are vulnerable to immediate and vicious punishment if any woman anywhere makes allegations regardless of whether they are substantiated or even eventually proven false. Try bringing that up with your friends and see what happens.
acdha 3y ago
> If you dare to bring up men's issues in education, parental rights, etc, you get lumped in with the MRA wackadoodles The only time I’ve seen that happen is when the proposed solutions are things like rolling back women’s independence or trying to excuse things like harassment as “boys will be boys”. I’ve otherwise read tons of things about helping build healthy relationships, having non-sexual friendships, improving educational options, bolstering employment options which don’t require college degrees, helping with unreasonable expectations and mental health/substance abuse traps, etc. and have never seen the dynamic you describe.
- wing-_-nuts 3y ago
  I'm not trying to be disagreeable or abrasive, but this does not track with my experience. Bring up a women's issue, and it's societies problem. Bring up a men's issue and you'll quickly be invalidated or told 'men need to fix this issue themselves!'
  - acdha 3y ago
    That’s vague but it sounds like there may be differences in scope: if the problem you’re talking about is, for example, women not being hired at the same pay as equally-skilled men, that is a structural problem requiring systemic solutions. If on the other hand the problem is something like men not getting therapy because their peers will mock them (repeat for drinking too much, disrespecting women, etc.) there is some room for governmental action but a lot of it does have to be social change at a smaller scale. All the DARE posters in the world didn’t stop anyone from using drugs - but addressing economic and healthcare issues do, and that’s pretty frequently mentioned in conversations I’m part of.
pixl97 3y ago
Just as much the Right doesn't listen when you suggest anything other than the status quo of past history. It is its own form of neo-luddism (the luddites had reasons to be mad, but it burning the looms didn't change automation occurring). The right these days typically sells the strong man idea of a glorious past that we must reach back for, while living in complete denial that technology/modern life has changed the world in a way there is no going back. Modern capitalistic practices are terrible for mens health. The previous paradigm was terrible for women. Any real solution has to address both.
ap99 3y ago
That's precisely what's happened to me. I'm not rushing towards the right, I'm being pushed away from the left.
happytoexplain 3y ago
There is an overwhelming amount of noise from both sides on all issues. That atmosphere essentially dictates two high-level outlooks you can have: Define parties by their reasonable people (benefit of the doubt), or define parties by their unreasonable people ("look at what this leftwing/rightwing nutjob said").
hdjjhhvvhga 3y ago
> The right has Jordan Peterson and a raft of people discussing men's issues. The left has NO equivalent. The silence is deafening. And this is a great pity. The left needs someone understanding male problems, able to discuss them and offer some concrete plan forward. The deafening silence you mentioned causes the gap go wider and decreases the chances of mutual understanding, as exemplified by many comments under this article.
mcphage 3y ago
> They absolutely do NOT. The right has Jordan Peterson and a raft of people discussing men's issues. The left has NO equivalent. The left doesn't have an equivalent of Jordan Peterson in general—there aren't any well-known celebrity spokespeople on the left. It's just not how they do things. So if that's what you're looking for, to understand what people on the left think about anything, really, you're going to be disappointed.

MattPalmer1086 3y ago

Agreed. The left is all about addressing minorities and feminism. While I support that, they do not talk about men's issues, about men for men.

cultofmetatron 3y ago
> The left is all about addressing minorities and feminism. they are all about addressing feminists and female minorities. I can tell you from my own experience, the vast majority of the left don't give a shit about minority men either.

tomtheelder 3y ago

This just doesn’t line up with my experience whatsoever. For my friends on the left it’s a common topic, and I see it discussed in left leaning publications all the time. I wonder when I see these characterizations of the left if they are coming from social media. I’m not on any social media aside from this site I guess, so I’m not sure if that’s what’s going on. The folks on the left that I interact with in real life are definitely a very big tent group.

wing-_-nuts 3y ago
What you're seeing is the support amongst your bros. That's great. That doesn't equate to discussion on 'the left'. You don't see it being discussed much in books, podcasts, blog posts, documentaries etc, except on the right.
- tomtheelder 3y ago
  But I see it discussed in left leaning media all the time. Topics like male suicide rates, loneliness, and social pressure against showing emotion come up over and over again.
  - wing-_-nuts 3y ago
    Interesting, where do you see this discussed? I sub to r/bropill, they're a very positive men's support sub on reddit.
    - orwin 3y ago
      Just saw a reddit post about some 'Vaush' youtuber talking about the issue, maybe you should look into him?
  - nvm0n2 3y ago
    But the diagnosis of what causes those ills will be some variant of "men just suck and bring it on themselves, how can we help them be more like women?" What people mean here is talking about problems imposed on men by society and how to fix that, not discussion that merely boils down to repeating feminist talking points. For example, one issue affecting men is the way they are vulnerable to immediate and vicious punishment if any woman anywhere makes allegations regardless of whether they are substantiated or even eventually proven false. Try bringing that up with your friends and see what happens.

acdha 3y ago

> If you dare to bring up men's issues in education, parental rights, etc, you get lumped in with the MRA wackadoodles The only time I’ve seen that happen is when the proposed solutions are things like rolling back women’s independence or trying to excuse things like harassment as “boys will be boys”. I’ve otherwise read tons of things about helping build healthy relationships, having non-sexual friendships, improving educational options, bolstering employment options which don’t require college degrees, helping with unreasonable expectations and mental health/substance abuse traps, etc. and have never seen the dynamic you describe.

wing-_-nuts 3y ago
I'm not trying to be disagreeable or abrasive, but this does not track with my experience. Bring up a women's issue, and it's societies problem. Bring up a men's issue and you'll quickly be invalidated or told 'men need to fix this issue themselves!'
- acdha 3y ago
  That’s vague but it sounds like there may be differences in scope: if the problem you’re talking about is, for example, women not being hired at the same pay as equally-skilled men, that is a structural problem requiring systemic solutions. If on the other hand the problem is something like men not getting therapy because their peers will mock them (repeat for drinking too much, disrespecting women, etc.) there is some room for governmental action but a lot of it does have to be social change at a smaller scale. All the DARE posters in the world didn’t stop anyone from using drugs - but addressing economic and healthcare issues do, and that’s pretty frequently mentioned in conversations I’m part of.

pixl97 3y ago

Just as much the Right doesn't listen when you suggest anything other than the status quo of past history. It is its own form of neo-luddism (the luddites had reasons to be mad, but it burning the looms didn't change automation occurring). The right these days typically sells the strong man idea of a glorious past that we must reach back for, while living in complete denial that technology/modern life has changed the world in a way there is no going back. Modern capitalistic practices are terrible for mens health. The previous paradigm was terrible for women. Any real solution has to address both.

ap99 3y ago

That's precisely what's happened to me. I'm not rushing towards the right, I'm being pushed away from the left.

happytoexplain 3y ago

There is an overwhelming amount of noise from both sides on all issues. That atmosphere essentially dictates two high-level outlooks you can have: Define parties by their reasonable people (benefit of the doubt), or define parties by their unreasonable people ("look at what this leftwing/rightwing nutjob said").

hdjjhhvvhga 3y ago

> The right has Jordan Peterson and a raft of people discussing men's issues. The left has NO equivalent. The silence is deafening. And this is a great pity. The left needs someone understanding male problems, able to discuss them and offer some concrete plan forward. The deafening silence you mentioned causes the gap go wider and decreases the chances of mutual understanding, as exemplified by many comments under this article.

mcphage 3y ago

> They absolutely do NOT. The right has Jordan Peterson and a raft of people discussing men's issues. The left has NO equivalent. The left doesn't have an equivalent of Jordan Peterson in general—there aren't any well-known celebrity spokespeople on the left. It's just not how they do things. So if that's what you're looking for, to understand what people on the left think about anything, really, you're going to be disappointed.