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Why complain if you need him? Not being snarky - but when it comes to things like these either you need some entity or you don’t. Sometimes they are needed bad
by orochimaaru 3y ago
Why complain if you need him? Not being snarky - but when it comes to things like these either you need some entity or you don’t. Sometimes they are needed bad enough that we excuse horrible behavior (US black sites, Saudi’s and Yemen, etc.). I think if you look you can put forth a rather long list.
Point is unless you have the power to remove turkey from nato the complaining is pointless.
- f6v 3y agoWe’re allowed to dislike hypocrisy, aren’t we?
- orochimaaru 3y agoI didn’t mean the “you” as in personally but rather the states that represent you. As an example - Sweden and NATO. If the Turks weren’t needed I’m sure NATO members could have come up with a method to remove them. Otherwise, Erdogan is going to press his advantage. From his perspective Kurds are terrorists. The reality is more complicated - but its what everyone is going to hold their nose and live with.
- nradov 3y agoInstead of being "sure" you should actually read the treaty. NATO members can withdraw, but there is no mechanism for other members to remove Turkey. And due to their geographic position they are absolutely still needed: removing Turkey would play into Putin's hands and could lead to catastrophic geopolitical consequences far worse than putting up Erdogan.
- Y_Y 3y agoIf Sweden is willing to host the missile sites that are currently in Turkey then it might be an interesting proposition, seeing as they have a similarly strategic location.
- nradov 3y agoWhat missile sites? There are no strategic missiles in Turkey. The USAF does store some other nuclear weapons there. Sweden is not really an equivalent replacement option. Do you want Turkey to turn into a Russian ally? Because driving Turkey out of NATO is how you turn Turkey into a Russian ally.
- aaronheid 3y ago[dead]
- binarymax 3y agoNot everyone thinks that we need those things. It’s also not “complaining”, it’s spreading awareness.
- medo-bear 3y agomaybe he is not needed as much as he thinks he is
- fakedang 3y agoYeah sure, second largest NATO military, battle-hardened in recent wars, not to mention rising military power in the Middle East, not needed in a defensive alliance, heh. Not to mention control of the Bosphorus, as well as a tendency to have dalliances with Russia when ignored by the US (a tendency that, I must remind you, predates Erdoğan). Start paying up 2% of your GDP (assuming you're European), on defence and military, or don't talk. Turkey is certainly paying their share, and paid their share way before Sultan Erdoğan took the throne.
- glogla 3y agoAlliances are not just about power, but also about common values and goals. Strong allies are good. Strong enemies that are for historic reason part of alliance are pretty bad, and need to be managed. That is why Turkey is not getting F-35s or even F-16s now. Why help arm your enemy?
- orochimaaru 3y agoI mean what values do the west share with middle eastern monarchies? Yet they are propped up and lavished with weapons. Alliances are mostly power jockeying. Common values will help to provide longevity to the alliance, but power is primary.
- glogla 3y agoI don't see many middle eastern monarchies in NATO.
- orochimaaru 3y agoBahrain houses the 5th fleet. USCC and USAFCC are out of qatar. I’d call that being allies. And since they’re US bases they will be used by nato in times of conflict (or otherwise).