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A fresh batch of basil at the grocery store is essentially a luxury item, exclusive to those who can afford it. What doesn't sell is waste. Perhaps it's time to

• bdcravens 3y ago
  I don't have statistics on how many, but I know that some grocery stores donate end of shelf-life produce to food banks.
• euroderf 3y ago
  > This would be a place where a meal is always available, all hours of the day, for free, to anyone who walks in. How about vending machines that scan an ID and dispense nutritious (but bland) biscuits ?
• pcl 3y ago
  Sounds a bit like the deli counter.
• CoffeeOnWrite 3y ago
  Love this idea. To add food for thought, could the basil be dried in a dehydrator immediately after being taken off the shelves after minor wilting but while the taste and nutrition are still there? The resulting product might be better quality than what is sold in the dried spices aisle that is much less fresh..
  • User23 3y ago
    Better yet is a freeze dryer if you can afford one.
    • AussieWog93 3y ago
      I vacuum seal and freeze my basil. (You can get away without the vaccuum sealing, but it'll get freezer burn after a few months). Honestly indistinguishable from fresh basil once you cook it, and I say this as an Italian food snob.
• onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  Labor is much more expensive than food waste in the US. So this only works at a very high cost or donated labor (which probably won't scale).
  • mc32 3y ago
    Isn’t this the idea behind soup kitchens? They’re not next to expensive grocery stores real estate but they do receive donated food and labor.
  • hotnfresh 3y ago
    Food waste is a super-weird thing for people to worry about, IMO, because it’s directly related to food being very cheap relative to labor. As you point out, the labor-cost of saving this food really doesn’t make sense. You fix it by making food expensive. I doubt anyone’s too keen to do that.
    • onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
      The problem isn't that food is cheap. The problem is that ~20% of the population has food & housing insecurity when we're supposedly ridiculously rich. I'd argue that the problem is labor is artificially expensive - which prevents all types of things like this from happening - because you can't buy labor for less than $15 an hour after taxes in most cities. So you can't serve people that make less than a certain amount of money effectively. People could be employed, making money working in these places - rather than people donating labor - and these same people working jobs like these would have access to these cheaper prepared meals, too. But, we'll never get that. Nor will we get boarding houses back, because instead of having "slums" we'd rather have a homeless problem and high housing "costs".
      • hotnfresh 3y ago
        Reducing the price of labor isn’t gonna bring that food insecurity rate down. And food being very cheap is definitely why there’s so much waste. There wasn’t, within living memory, and it’s because food cost a way bigger share of the median wage than it does today. Talk to some folks who grew up poor in the 40s and 50s about their cuisine, and they’ll tell you about what low-food-waste living looks like.
• jeffbee 3y ago
  In addition to the food surplus you're going to need a labor surplus and that doesn't exist in America.
• RileyJames 3y ago
  I went to exactly this a few weeks ago in Ocean Grove, Vic, Australia. A cafe and ‘market’ that was entirely sustained by ‘expired’ goods from the local super markets that was otherwise destined for the garbage bin. Trucks kept rolling in as we are. The cafe was only open weekend (volunteers) but the market was open everyday. It was a ‘pay what ever you can system’, and $0 was fine. There was a 2 bag maximum on goods you could take away from the market. And any payment made was a tax deductible donation. The market had an obviously limited selection of goods, dependent on what came from the supermarkets. But when I was there, - unlimited breads of all kinds (like shelves and shelves and shelves, including very nice sourdoughs) - capsicums (green) - milk - yogurt - lettuce - carrots - few other misc veg - a lot of soy and protein powders - juices - and frozen goods, which I didn’t explore. You couldn’t survive off it alone (unless you had to). But it was a cool option to have. Love the concept.
  • Kalium 3y ago
    The market approach is different from the soup kitchen model. The opportunity to pay, the ability to make your own choices in produce, and the experience of using something like a grocery store are things that help people feel dignified. That sense of human dignity can matter a great deal, especially to those clinging to it by their fingernails.
• bannedbybros 3y ago
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• pif 3y ago
  > These kitchens can consume food waste The risk of customers becoming community kitchen dwellers could be too high for the store. Stores need people buying the produce from the shelf, rather than helping themselves from the bin.
  • ketzo 3y ago
    This could happen in theory, yeah, but in reality (especially in America) I think there's zero chance of that happening at meaningful levels The audience who buys high-margin grocery items is almost entirely separate from the audience who would even semi-regularly eat at a community kitchen.
    • tivert 3y ago
      > The audience who buys high-margin grocery items is almost entirely separate from the audience who would even semi-regularly eat at a community kitchen. Also many of the people who buy "high-margin grocery items" won't want to be physically near anyone who would "even semi-regularly eat at a community kitchen." Any store that ran a community kitchen to consume food waste would likely attract a homeless encampment. Even extremely liberal/progressive upscale shoppers would angrily complain.
• boplicity 3y ago
  RE: Basil. If you have a window that gets a lot of light, it can be very easy for a basil plant to thrive in it. We spent around $15 setting this up in June -- including the cost of a pot, soil, and basil starts. We've been eating basil since, in many meals. That's not free, but it's resulted in very low cast basil for us, always on hand. We also have rosemary and thyme growing in the window. A window with good light and space for plants can result in low cost, high quality herbs, with relatively low effort.
  • gnicholas 3y ago
    What sort of soil do you use? We regularly buy and kill basil plants at TJ’s, and I think I’ve narrowed down the issue to the fact that they give you junky soil that won’t sustain the plant long (regardless of watering or sunlight).
    • asimpletune 3y ago
      You need to break apart the basil and distribute it evenly in a larger pot. Supermarket basil has fertilizer that makes them grow super fast and look good on the shelves, but what you're buying is actually a bunch of little plants that will exhaust the nutrients unless they're broken up.
      • gnicholas 3y ago
        Interesting — how do you break the plant apart? It appears to have one “trunk” where it goes into the soil, so do you just pull off “branches”?
        • asimpletune 3y ago
          If there is really one trunk then you can't break it apart further. However, most basil plants sold at the grocery store are just a bunch of small ones grown closely together. To break it up, just prepare a bigger pot, with potting soil, and then remove the basil from its store-bought container and split it apart with your hands. You want to create a few even groups to go in the new, bigger pot. Ideally, there would be one plant per group, but you don't want to break them up too much and risk tearing the roots too much. I just did four quarters and it's worked fine. I have a huge basil thing now and I did it in a long, skinny rectangular pot.
• avgcorrection 3y ago
  > It's surprising we don't have this already in North America given how much surplus food is produced. If that would work and people would use it then it isn't surprising. Supply and demand. More supply, less demand for the produce that costs money
• civilitty 3y ago
  As far as I know, most chain grocery stores in urban areas already donate their expiring food. My local Trader Joes and Ralphs have each donated hundreds of thousands of dollars of food so far this year - they both have signs advertising their donations that they update weekly with the new figures. The problem in my city is labor - there simply isn't enough manpower to convert all that produce into healthy food so they end up dispensing mostly the less healthy processed stuff, which also tends to have lower spoilage and higher "utilization" at the supermarket so there's never enough to go around based on peoples preferences. Whenever I volunteer at the local shelter, anyone who wants fresh produce can just ask for it but most people wanted (needed) hot prepared meals that tasted familiar and comforting.
• cameronh90 3y ago
  > A fresh batch of basil at the grocery store is essentially a luxury item, exclusive to those who can afford it I grow a fair amount my food on my allotment, and one of the interesting things I've noticed is how little the grocery store prices are related to the effort it takes to grow it myself. For example, I no longer grow potatoes except for rotation purposes, because the time and inputs (fertilizer, etc.) aren't worth it compared to £0.5 per 1kg of potatoes from the supermarket. On the other hand, basil is extremely fast growing and doesn't need any fertilizer, other than a bit of manure/compost at the start of the season. From my basil bed, I get about 50kg in a season, which has an ASDA street value of about £1000. This obviously comes down to things like the ease of mechanical harvesting, the complexity of cold chain logistics, etc. Still, if you have a free windowsill and find supermarket basil ludicrously expensive, it's worth sticking a few Sweet Genovese on there.
  • jxcl 3y ago
    What is the size of your basil bed? 50 kg of basil per season seems wonderful!
    • cameronh90 3y ago
      I think it's about 4 metres by 2 metres. I plant quite densely compared to what you'll normally see recommended on the back of a seed packet, and to save on space between rows, I built a wooden frame that I can use to walk over and harvest from the top. Probably not very safe, but luckily I don't have to report to the HSE! I also start them off indoors and plant out early since London has a rather mild climate. Also: it smells bloody amazing.
      • thefcpk 3y ago
        but what do you do with 50kg of basil... I love pesto and it's a great addon to many things, but I don't see myself using more than a couple hundred g per week.
        • cameronh90 3y ago
• giantg2 3y ago
  Some stores do donate soon to expire food to food banks.
• Kalium 3y ago
  As a rule, offering a service that people feel low-status when using is a sub-optimal approach. Eating "expired" or "old" or even "didn't sell" produce doesn't feel dignified to most people. It feels like being a charity case, like being pitied. This can be acceptable in private, but having to take action in public and be visible is humiliating. People care about feeling dignified and will make personal sacrifices to maintain that feeling. What you're describing is a soup kitchen rebranded. Plus some extra logistical issues from the 24/7 model. With that in mind, you may want to investigate how your local soup kitchens get their materials. Your idea may be closer to reality than you think.
  • Eisenstein 3y ago
    Just spin it right and you will be fine. Market it as a way to offset your carbon footprint and call it something hippy-ish, and instead of charging money make people plant something or bring in a battery or an old piece of tech to recycle. Whatever works for the type of community it is in.
  • Workaccount2 3y ago
    Reminds me of when I was young I did a volunteer session at soup kitchen for the needy. After dinner was served we went around and collected the used dinnerware from the patrons there. I went to one lady and took her plate, upon which she angrily scoffed at me "I can take my own plate up! I am not one of the guests here!". She was in fact one of the guests.
    • mrguyorama 3y ago
      Maybe if our society didn't tie so much of your self worth and value to an job, people without jobs wouldn't feel so garbage on top of having a difficult life.
      • deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  • datavirtue 3y ago
• grecy 3y ago
  > It's surprising we don't have this already in North America given how much surplus food is produced If you genuinely want to know why, I highly recommend the book Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. It does a fantastic job of explaining how our society got really messed up the day food was put under lock and key.
• Spivak 3y ago
  It's my literal lifetime dream to open one of these. If anyone has any tips on how to get the right connections to make it feasible I'm all ears. All the trappings for a commercial kitchen and getting a space to work out of is fine but it's the nonprofit fundraising and grocery store food-pantry connections that seem impossible. I've basically resigned to starting at micro scale to get around the first one but actually getting a steady stream of food without pissing off the powers that be is an uphill battle.
  • toast0 3y ago
    Work/volunteer/consult at grocery stores and food banks and you'll make connections with people at grocery stores and food banks. Ask questions like "hey, who are those guys taking the stuff we pulled off the shelves cause it was expiring?" or "where does all this food that's right around the expiration date come from?"
• james_pm 3y ago
  Our grocery store literally sells live, potted basil plants for less than a little package of fresh basil. And people still by the packaged basil.
• lusus_naturae 3y ago
  Be the change you want in the world. Start your own community kitchen :)
• PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  silly question, but wouldn't that be called a restaurant or a cafe?
• zie 3y ago
  Like others have mentioned the big problem with your idea is grocery chains already do this to varying degrees, except the food goes to local food banks, homeless shelters(that offer hot meals), etc. Food Banks actually have a whole interesting economy they handle within themselves with "fake" money. It's pretty neat. Grocery Outlet is the big chain that takes "waste" food and other smaller retail stores do the same thing(s). It's not exactly the same as what you are talking about, as it's generally on the other side of the equation, it's all the "left over" food that never makes it to the grocery store, because the manufacturers over-produced, essentially. Not all of the items are strictly near expiration, but a very large portion of them are near or past expiration in practice.
  • ballenf 3y ago
    In the US, food banks I've volunteered at had very strict food expiration policies and wouldn't (couldn't?) offer any food very near expiration. They threw out huge quantities of food. Also turned away even more donations for same reason. They were operating under federal funding, which the workers seemed to imply required the policy.
    • zie 3y ago
      That must be new (I haven't volunteered since Covid) or just not implemented at the ones I've worked with. The ones I worked with totally didn't care about things like that, and let the customers make their own decisions around taking an item or not. We would occasionally pick out totally rotten or fuzzy stuff. None of them had federal funding though. I regularly see past-expiration stuff at Grocery Outlet stores and other discount grocery stores like that still being sold.
• pradn 3y ago
  It took me a little while to realize this. In Manhattan, I can get a pound of fresh pasta from Citarella for $6, their jarred tomato sauce for another $6 (quite enough for a pound of pasta), a lovely block of sufficient Parmesan for $3, enough onion and garlic for like $1 or something - but the garnish, basil, is $5 a bunch. And you can't get a tiny, garnish-sufficient amount either. It also works in the pasta itself, and you might as well throw it in there because you surely aren't going to use the whole bunch if you don't. So $16/4 ~= $4 per portion for absolutely delicious pasta. And about $5 per portion with basil. Of course, it'll be even better if you make your own tomato sauce and all. The bare-bones option is: $3 for Barilla pasta, $4 for jarred tomato sauce, and like $1 for onion and garlic. You'll skip the block of Parmesan and basil, of course. But then it's ~$2 per portion. Saving $2 for such a drop in taste is not really worth it. You may skip the cheese, just to avoid eating such a rich meal.
• 1MachineElf 3y ago
  >A fresh batch of basil at the grocery store is essentially a luxury item Not in Vietnam, and not in the Chinese (Great Wall)/Korean (Hmart, Lotte) grocery chains in the US. Eating a whole sprig of basil is common in various Vietnamese meals. My point is that basil doesn't have to be a luxury item. It grows very well without much effort.
• MSFT_Edging 3y ago
  > It's surprising we don't have this already in North America given how much surplus food is produced. You're describing a social function without a lucrative profit motive. One man's desire to improve their community is another's worst nightmare.
• late25 3y ago
  That creates an incentive to not purchase food. No grocer will allow such an arrangement in NA.
• fuzztester 3y ago
  I've read somewhere here on HN that a huge amount of food is wasted in the US regularly, in different ways.