6 ms·

Java 21 is colorblind - but the colors still exist

lolinder 3y ago
Yep, I agree. I tend to be a type system maximalist: I'd rather have everything that is possible to encode statically be encoded statically, even if it leads to less flexibility later. If you're starting a new Java codebase from scratch, you can create the structure where the language doesn't using classes, but it'd be nice to have syntactic support for it.
- kaba0 3y ago
  This property is not really part of the type system though. Also, as mentioned by another commenter below - is a file exists operation async? Sync? Why, why not?
  - wiseowise 3y ago
    What if file exists operation MUST be sync?
    - kaba0 3y ago
      Then you don’t start it in a virtual thread. Your calls automatically become blocking or not blocking depending on your callsites, which is the proper place to decide that.
      - wiseowise 3y ago
        So it still has colors?
  - lolinder 3y ago
    In TypeScript at least, async-ness is encoded in the type system, because async/await is just syntactic sugar for Promise/then/catch.
    - kaba0 3y ago
      Well, JS is paired with a single-threaded execution model, so you only have concurrency to worry about. C#, Java has proper multithreading as well, that gives another dimension to the problem.
      - lolinder 3y ago
        Kotlin has multithreading, and it also puts `suspend` in the type system.
        n2d4 3y ago
        Some more examples: Rust, Python (with most/all? type checkers), C# all bake this into their type systems.
        vips7L 3y ago
        This is more due to the fact that Kotlin doesn’t control its backend and is designed to work with a language that already includes this model, js.
  - samus 3y ago
    Very simple - in Java, almost any IO operation in blocking. Exceptions are the stuff in the NIO package, thread interruption and signalling, and maybe process termination.
jayd16 3y ago
I wonder if we'll see Lombok markup for @OnVirtualThread or whatever the pattern shakes out to be.
- andrewaylett 3y ago
  Lombok is unfortunately a separate programming language, albeit insufficiently distinct from Java. (Why? Because it uses internal compiler APIs to change the behaviour of code you write in ways that are not valid: annotation processors are supposed to generate new classes, not mutate existing classes.)
- samus 3y ago
  I went looking on their because for some reason I thought that an `@Async` annotation would already exist. But no such luck. If you want to use something like this today, then you could take a look at Spring 's Async support. It also lets you supply the Executor.
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Yep, I agree. I tend to be a type system maximalist: I'd rather have everything that is possible to encode statically be encoded statically, even if it leads to less flexibility later. If you're starting a new Java codebase from scratch, you can create the structure where the language doesn't using classes, but it'd be nice to have syntactic support for it.

kaba0 3y ago
This property is not really part of the type system though. Also, as mentioned by another commenter below - is a file exists operation async? Sync? Why, why not?
- wiseowise 3y ago
  What if file exists operation MUST be sync?
  - kaba0 3y ago
    Then you don’t start it in a virtual thread. Your calls automatically become blocking or not blocking depending on your callsites, which is the proper place to decide that.
    - wiseowise 3y ago
      So it still has colors?
- lolinder 3y ago
  In TypeScript at least, async-ness is encoded in the type system, because async/await is just syntactic sugar for Promise/then/catch.
  - kaba0 3y ago
    Well, JS is paired with a single-threaded execution model, so you only have concurrency to worry about. C#, Java has proper multithreading as well, that gives another dimension to the problem.
    - lolinder 3y ago
      Kotlin has multithreading, and it also puts `suspend` in the type system.
      - n2d4 3y ago
        Some more examples: Rust, Python (with most/all? type checkers), C# all bake this into their type systems.
      - vips7L 3y ago
        This is more due to the fact that Kotlin doesn’t control its backend and is designed to work with a language that already includes this model, js.
- samus 3y ago
  Very simple - in Java, almost any IO operation in blocking. Exceptions are the stuff in the NIO package, thread interruption and signalling, and maybe process termination.

jayd16 3y ago

I wonder if we'll see Lombok markup for @OnVirtualThread or whatever the pattern shakes out to be.

andrewaylett 3y ago
Lombok is unfortunately a separate programming language, albeit insufficiently distinct from Java. (Why? Because it uses internal compiler APIs to change the behaviour of code you write in ways that are not valid: annotation processors are supposed to generate new classes, not mutate existing classes.)
samus 3y ago
I went looking on their because for some reason I thought that an `@Async` annotation would already exist. But no such luck. If you want to use something like this today, then you could take a look at Spring 's Async support. It also lets you supply the Executor.

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