4 ms·

Is there an example area where the UK actually is in a better situation thanks to Brexit, or has agreed a deal with anyone that's better than the previous situa

by swores 3y ago

Is there an example area where the UK actually is in a better situation thanks to Brexit, or has agreed a deal with anyone that's better than the previous situation? Taking this Horizon story as an example, the fact that we've rejoined shows that EU membership isn't necessary for it, but it still has "years out of the deal" as a negative for Brexit and I don't think any improvement to count as a positive?

disgruntledphd2 3y ago
I mean the big selling point is flexibility in regulation. The trouble is that using that flexibility would be bad for exporters so it's pretty tricky to use effectively.
- IntelMiner 3y ago
  I seem to recall the latter being expected, that the UK would drop regulations on imports, leading to low-quality American foodstuffs (corn syrup) flooding the market
  - mcintyre1994 3y ago
    I'm not convinced that's actually seen as a benefit by any government either though, because it'd be bad for UK companies that sell here and also export - which is what you want really. Those companies can't lower their standards to compete with lower quality imports without losing their export business.
    - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
      The outcomes have already penalised exporters relative to importers. Exporting to the EU is hard: lots of standards checks. Importing from the EU is easy: whole categories of imports are left unchecked, because new rules aren't being enforced as a matter of policy, which is the only way we have food security, for example.
    - tomatocracy 3y ago
      Protectionism often seems politically appealing because its beneficiaries are highly visible and benefits are concentrated amongst a few larger firms. The beneficiaries of cheaper imports and freer trade are usually greater in total but thinly spread out - everyone benefits a little bit. As such it wouldn't surprise me at all if both your perspective and GP's perspective are true - cheaper imports would be better for everyone but the government doesn't "want" them because they'd politically inconvenience a relatively small number of people very visibly.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    A Facebook ad caught my eye recently, as it was a British newspaper's "Least healthy breakfast cereal" and the picture was something I didn't recognize at all. I was then surprised to see American cereal is now sold in the UK, and it's packed with the colourings and additives British parents in the 1990s would have refused to have in the house. Pre-Brexit, "No artificial colours or flavours" could be pretty much assumed for all cereal sold in Britain, even the colourful, sugary ones. That's no longer the case. Example: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282819954 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282819954 Contains Tartrazine (E102)*, Sunset Yellow (E110)*, Brilliant Blue (E133), Allura Red (E129)* E102 — in the EU, not allowed in cereal E110 — allowed, although the UK government previously asked manufacturers to stop using this E133 — not easily determined from Wikipedia, although there's an example of British manufacturers stopping its use in the 2000s. E129 — allowed I think.
    - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
      I was an awful, temperamental, argumentative child, and there were moments where my mood would be severely worse for no logical reason until I understood -- discovered for myself, in exasperation -- that both E102 and E110 actually triggered my bad moods. They were commonplace in drinks aimed at kids (Tizer for example) for years. Putting them in breakfast cereals is IMO mindblowingly irresponsible; the food producers know for sure (because the link has been established with little doubt) that tartrazine and sunset yellow worsen child behaviour.
bemusedthrow75 3y ago
> Is there an example area where the UK actually is in a better situation thanks to Brexit, or has agreed a deal with anyone that's better than the previous situation? No. The most you could claim is that we were a few weeks earlier with a vaccine than the rest of Europe, but then we'd have been developing our vaccine within an EU framework if we'd been in, so who knows what additional benefits that would have brought.
archsurface 3y ago
Pros and cons, you can't look just at this example. Also, a project as big as Brexit takes many years to play out; the transition has barely begun, the conversation is futile at this point, and will be for years.
- t43562 3y ago
  That's how people sold communism.

by swores 3y ago

disgruntledphd2 3y ago

I mean the big selling point is flexibility in regulation. The trouble is that using that flexibility would be bad for exporters so it's pretty tricky to use effectively.

IntelMiner 3y ago
I seem to recall the latter being expected, that the UK would drop regulations on imports, leading to low-quality American foodstuffs (corn syrup) flooding the market
- mcintyre1994 3y ago
  I'm not convinced that's actually seen as a benefit by any government either though, because it'd be bad for UK companies that sell here and also export - which is what you want really. Those companies can't lower their standards to compete with lower quality imports without losing their export business.
  - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
    The outcomes have already penalised exporters relative to importers. Exporting to the EU is hard: lots of standards checks. Importing from the EU is easy: whole categories of imports are left unchecked, because new rules aren't being enforced as a matter of policy, which is the only way we have food security, for example.
  - tomatocracy 3y ago
    Protectionism often seems politically appealing because its beneficiaries are highly visible and benefits are concentrated amongst a few larger firms. The beneficiaries of cheaper imports and freer trade are usually greater in total but thinly spread out - everyone benefits a little bit. As such it wouldn't surprise me at all if both your perspective and GP's perspective are true - cheaper imports would be better for everyone but the government doesn't "want" them because they'd politically inconvenience a relatively small number of people very visibly.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  A Facebook ad caught my eye recently, as it was a British newspaper's "Least healthy breakfast cereal" and the picture was something I didn't recognize at all. I was then surprised to see American cereal is now sold in the UK, and it's packed with the colourings and additives British parents in the 1990s would have refused to have in the house. Pre-Brexit, "No artificial colours or flavours" could be pretty much assumed for all cereal sold in Britain, even the colourful, sugary ones. That's no longer the case. Example: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282819954 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282819954 Contains Tartrazine (E102)*, Sunset Yellow (E110)*, Brilliant Blue (E133), Allura Red (E129)* E102 — in the EU, not allowed in cereal E110 — allowed, although the UK government previously asked manufacturers to stop using this E133 — not easily determined from Wikipedia, although there's an example of British manufacturers stopping its use in the 2000s. E129 — allowed I think.
  - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
    I was an awful, temperamental, argumentative child, and there were moments where my mood would be severely worse for no logical reason until I understood -- discovered for myself, in exasperation -- that both E102 and E110 actually triggered my bad moods. They were commonplace in drinks aimed at kids (Tizer for example) for years. Putting them in breakfast cereals is IMO mindblowingly irresponsible; the food producers know for sure (because the link has been established with little doubt) that tartrazine and sunset yellow worsen child behaviour.

bemusedthrow75 3y ago

> Is there an example area where the UK actually is in a better situation thanks to Brexit, or has agreed a deal with anyone that's better than the previous situation? No. The most you could claim is that we were a few weeks earlier with a vaccine than the rest of Europe, but then we'd have been developing our vaccine within an EU framework if we'd been in, so who knows what additional benefits that would have brought.

archsurface 3y ago

Pros and cons, you can't look just at this example. Also, a project as big as Brexit takes many years to play out; the transition has barely begun, the conversation is futile at this point, and will be for years.

t43562 3y ago
That's how people sold communism.