5 ms·

Why don't beginners start at Python.org, though? It's such a great resource to learn the language. - it's free, unlike books - always up-to-date, unlike even

Why don't beginners start at Python.org, though? It's such a great resource to learn the language. - it's free, unlike books - always up-to-date, unlike even the best book after a few months - easy to choose: heck, there's only one official documentation! No chance of making a mistake here!

rmbyrro 3y ago
I guess book authors don't like my perspective...
Armisael16 3y ago
Are you suggesting people just go read the documentation like an encyclopedia? I don’t know a single person who got their start programming by doing that - just about everyone wants some sort of guide to help lead them in good directions.
- skydhash 3y ago
  I did. On Windows, Python had (still have?) a good offline help. And it included a nice getting started tutorial. The only book I had was “The C Programming Language”. But they ignited my interest enough to start researching, and I landed on the "Site du Zero" (now OpenClassrooms) platform. The web was sparser, but better, in these days (2010).
- jacquesm 3y ago
  That's more or less exactly how I learned to program. From books, with a few friends. Only after it got to a certain level and I started frequenting more places where we met other people working with computers some of which were professional programmers. I still have some of them. They've aged surprisingly well.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    > That's more or less exactly how I learned to program. From books What kind of books? The person you're replying to is arguing in favor of books, but saying that the documentation in particular is not a good one to start with.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      I think you are assuming disagreement where there is none.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        I wasn't assuming it, but I felt like directly asking wouldn't make my comment any clearer. The problem is "That's more or less exactly how I learned to program." sounds like it's a response to the question in the comment you replied to. Which would mean there's either disagreement or you didn't understand the question. And the way you mentioned other people sounded like you might be interpreting "guide" as a human guide. I guess instead you were skipping the question and talking about the second sentence? In that case I recommend quoting which sentence you're replying to in a situation like this.
NavinF 3y ago
Do the official docs even have tutorials? I'd send beginners to Khan Academy instead.
- asicsp 3y ago
  Yeah, https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/index.html https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/index.html. But I would say it is good for those who already know another programming language and not for complete beginners.
japhyr 3y ago
Many beginners do start at python.org. However, if you don't know anything about programming, and you don't know someone who can answer all the little questions that come up, it's really hard to learn from documentation alone. Even the official Python tutorial is fairly inaccessible to many people who are trying learn a language for the first time. Almost every Python author I've spoken with recognizes that no one resource works best for everyone. We each write to offer our particular take on a subject, and hope to find an audience that our perspective resonates with. I've never steered people away from documentation; in fact one of my goals is to steer people to the sections of documentation that they're ready to make sense of. One of my end goals is that people no longer need me as a teacher. That was my goal as a classroom teacher, and it's one of my goals as an author. The idea that there are no mistakes in official documentation is pretty unrealistic. Technical documentation has certainly improved over the last decade or so, but it will never be perfect. Most of us recognize that some areas of programming are better handled by third party libraries. In a similar way, there will always be room for learning resources that are maintained outside of official documentation sources.
- rmbyrro 3y ago
  I didn't claim the official docs have no mistakes. Since there's only one documentation, beginners can't get wrong with which docs to use. Ad opposed to books, which have tons of bad choices available (hence the current discussion).

rmbyrro 3y ago

I guess book authors don't like my perspective...

Armisael16 3y ago

Are you suggesting people just go read the documentation like an encyclopedia? I don’t know a single person who got their start programming by doing that - just about everyone wants some sort of guide to help lead them in good directions.

skydhash 3y ago
I did. On Windows, Python had (still have?) a good offline help. And it included a nice getting started tutorial. The only book I had was “The C Programming Language”. But they ignited my interest enough to start researching, and I landed on the "Site du Zero" (now OpenClassrooms) platform. The web was sparser, but better, in these days (2010).
jacquesm 3y ago
That's more or less exactly how I learned to program. From books, with a few friends. Only after it got to a certain level and I started frequenting more places where we met other people working with computers some of which were professional programmers. I still have some of them. They've aged surprisingly well.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  > That's more or less exactly how I learned to program. From books What kind of books? The person you're replying to is arguing in favor of books, but saying that the documentation in particular is not a good one to start with.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    I think you are assuming disagreement where there is none.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      I wasn't assuming it, but I felt like directly asking wouldn't make my comment any clearer. The problem is "That's more or less exactly how I learned to program." sounds like it's a response to the question in the comment you replied to. Which would mean there's either disagreement or you didn't understand the question. And the way you mentioned other people sounded like you might be interpreting "guide" as a human guide. I guess instead you were skipping the question and talking about the second sentence? In that case I recommend quoting which sentence you're replying to in a situation like this.

NavinF 3y ago

Do the official docs even have tutorials? I'd send beginners to Khan Academy instead.

asicsp 3y ago
Yeah, https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/index.html https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/index.html. But I would say it is good for those who already know another programming language and not for complete beginners.

japhyr 3y ago

Many beginners do start at python.org. However, if you don't know anything about programming, and you don't know someone who can answer all the little questions that come up, it's really hard to learn from documentation alone. Even the official Python tutorial is fairly inaccessible to many people who are trying learn a language for the first time. Almost every Python author I've spoken with recognizes that no one resource works best for everyone. We each write to offer our particular take on a subject, and hope to find an audience that our perspective resonates with. I've never steered people away from documentation; in fact one of my goals is to steer people to the sections of documentation that they're ready to make sense of. One of my end goals is that people no longer need me as a teacher. That was my goal as a classroom teacher, and it's one of my goals as an author. The idea that there are no mistakes in official documentation is pretty unrealistic. Technical documentation has certainly improved over the last decade or so, but it will never be perfect. Most of us recognize that some areas of programming are better handled by third party libraries. In a similar way, there will always be room for learning resources that are maintained outside of official documentation sources.

rmbyrro 3y ago
I didn't claim the official docs have no mistakes. Since there's only one documentation, beginners can't get wrong with which docs to use. Ad opposed to books, which have tons of bad choices available (hence the current discussion).