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None of the countries you mention have ages old strong own culture to preserve really (except first nations but for various reasons their culture is not US or C

None of the countries you mention have ages old strong own culture to preserve really (except first nations but for various reasons their culture is not US or Canada culture). So Japan's policy is not unreasonable. You can become a proper Japanese if you want to (are willing to culturally integrate), it's just that not many people do. Without it you'd be trading off death of country for death of culture. Contrast to China or Thailand where AFAIK you are always second class citizen legally if you are "wrong" ethnicity.

kanbara 3y ago
this isnt true at all, in practice. there’s so much onerous bureacracy, kafkaesque visa policies, and the fact that even naturalised individuals will still be othered. japanese nationality is tied to ethnicity so much due to how homogenous the society is
- throwaway290 3y ago
  "othering" at social level probably exists, but you are mixing up culture and ethnicity, there is division and kind of caste system within "homogenous" Japan too, see burakumin issue for eg. so legally for a foreigner the policy seems reasonable, just there is a lot of FUD spread by people who felt entitled to become Japanese with little effort and suffered reality check, see eg. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj855k5066o https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj855k5066o
ffgjgf1 3y ago
> have ages old strong own culture Modern Japanese culture has its roots almost entirely in the 19th century and the post WW2 era.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  This is nonsense. "Post WW2" describes current modern Japanese culture, not its root. The root goes way back to hundreds/thousands of years BC, they continuously lived on those exact islands and spoke a similar language all that time. Unlike US or Canada which are a new amalgamation of English/French/Spanish/German/Jewish/AA/Native/whatever cultures without any single root. Not to say US or Canadian culture is worse or better, just there's objectively less to worry about not ruining something age old and unique.
  - ffgjgf1 3y ago
    > not its root You might as well say that US culture has its roots in ancient Greece or Rome, or Reformation age Europe and claim it’s hundreds or even thousands years old. It would be worth about as much. But yeah I agree with you in the sense that US/Canada are constantly affected by a constant influx of people belonging to different cultures. Had there been barely any immigration after ~1800 American culture would be effectively as old and unique as the Japanese one. Quebec for instance is kind of (but not quite) like that. > just there's objectively less to worry about not ruining something age old and unique. Well they already did during the Meiji period and subsequently, what remains is not that significant. Also what are your thoughts on Britain, Scandinavian and some other European countries? They would be effectively no different to Japan in this sense besides the fact that they have very large numbers immigrants.
    - shuiling 3y ago
      [dead]
    - throwaway290 3y ago
      > You might as well say that US culture has its roots in ancient Greece or Rome, or Reformation age Europe and claim it’s hundreds or even thousands years old. No. Greeks, Romans, Vikings, Slavs, Turks, Arabs, Mongols etc, different peoples have their respective roots for sure, but those roots are elsewhere. Once you move across the ocean and mingle with a bunch of others coming from radically different backgrounds and histories, different mutually unintelligible languages and incompatible religions it's a completely different story than if you live at the same locality, speak the same language and carry broadly similar values and beliefs as N generations and thousands of years back. Except for first nations, people of US and Canada are still very much guests on their soil if you compare those timescales (actually even first nations may have settled Canada a bit later than Japanese settled Japan by skimming Wikipedia but that I'm not sure). From inside one of those new cultures (who are cool and unique in their own ways, sure) it can be easy to miss the significance.
      - ffgjgf1 3y ago
I_am_uncreative 3y ago
> You can become a proper Japanese if you want to I'm really not sure about that. I'm a white man with red hair, I'm pretty sure I'd always be "otherized" in Japan, as would most westerners.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  Check out the video linked. That guy is similar. The question is legal equality, which seems possible and not depend on color of your hair. Of course some Japanese will treat you differently. They will also otherize and treat differently even their fellow ethnic Japanese of other social classes. But I think this is not really different from British, Russian or many other cultures (maybe except US or Canada which are more melting pot like). It's just harder to notice from inside the culture.

kanbara 3y ago

this isnt true at all, in practice. there’s so much onerous bureacracy, kafkaesque visa policies, and the fact that even naturalised individuals will still be othered. japanese nationality is tied to ethnicity so much due to how homogenous the society is

throwaway290 3y ago
"othering" at social level probably exists, but you are mixing up culture and ethnicity, there is division and kind of caste system within "homogenous" Japan too, see burakumin issue for eg. so legally for a foreigner the policy seems reasonable, just there is a lot of FUD spread by people who felt entitled to become Japanese with little effort and suffered reality check, see eg. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj855k5066o https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj855k5066o

ffgjgf1 3y ago

> have ages old strong own culture Modern Japanese culture has its roots almost entirely in the 19th century and the post WW2 era.

throwaway290 3y ago
This is nonsense. "Post WW2" describes current modern Japanese culture, not its root. The root goes way back to hundreds/thousands of years BC, they continuously lived on those exact islands and spoke a similar language all that time. Unlike US or Canada which are a new amalgamation of English/French/Spanish/German/Jewish/AA/Native/whatever cultures without any single root. Not to say US or Canadian culture is worse or better, just there's objectively less to worry about not ruining something age old and unique.
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  > not its root You might as well say that US culture has its roots in ancient Greece or Rome, or Reformation age Europe and claim it’s hundreds or even thousands years old. It would be worth about as much. But yeah I agree with you in the sense that US/Canada are constantly affected by a constant influx of people belonging to different cultures. Had there been barely any immigration after ~1800 American culture would be effectively as old and unique as the Japanese one. Quebec for instance is kind of (but not quite) like that. > just there's objectively less to worry about not ruining something age old and unique. Well they already did during the Meiji period and subsequently, what remains is not that significant. Also what are your thoughts on Britain, Scandinavian and some other European countries? They would be effectively no different to Japan in this sense besides the fact that they have very large numbers immigrants.
  - shuiling 3y ago
    [dead]
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    > You might as well say that US culture has its roots in ancient Greece or Rome, or Reformation age Europe and claim it’s hundreds or even thousands years old. No. Greeks, Romans, Vikings, Slavs, Turks, Arabs, Mongols etc, different peoples have their respective roots for sure, but those roots are elsewhere. Once you move across the ocean and mingle with a bunch of others coming from radically different backgrounds and histories, different mutually unintelligible languages and incompatible religions it's a completely different story than if you live at the same locality, speak the same language and carry broadly similar values and beliefs as N generations and thousands of years back. Except for first nations, people of US and Canada are still very much guests on their soil if you compare those timescales (actually even first nations may have settled Canada a bit later than Japanese settled Japan by skimming Wikipedia but that I'm not sure). From inside one of those new cultures (who are cool and unique in their own ways, sure) it can be easy to miss the significance.
    - ffgjgf1 3y ago

I_am_uncreative 3y ago

> You can become a proper Japanese if you want to I'm really not sure about that. I'm a white man with red hair, I'm pretty sure I'd always be "otherized" in Japan, as would most westerners.

throwaway290 3y ago
Check out the video linked. That guy is similar. The question is legal equality, which seems possible and not depend on color of your hair. Of course some Japanese will treat you differently. They will also otherize and treat differently even their fellow ethnic Japanese of other social classes. But I think this is not really different from British, Russian or many other cultures (maybe except US or Canada which are more melting pot like). It's just harder to notice from inside the culture.