4 ms·

What is “excessive booting” in this context? IIUC here in NYC, booting is usually a response to thousands of dollars in unpaid fines (unpaid fines are public re

by paulgb 3y ago

What is “excessive booting” in this context? IIUC here in NYC, booting is usually a response to thousands of dollars in unpaid fines (unpaid fines are public record here, so you can even look them up.) I realize it's always an unpopular opinion to be pro-parking-enforcement, but to be honest, I'm always glad to see a car booted. Some people think they have a god-given right to leave their car wherever is convenient to them, it's nice to see at least some of them face consequences.

filoleg 3y ago
About 8 years ago in Atlanta, I got booted on my first offence, by overstaying in the nearly empty parking lot in midtown by 15 mins (I paid for the hour of parking before that, but the restaurant took their time with the checks). I think "first time offense of being late on your parking by 15 mins - you get a boot" is pretty excessive. Don't get me wrong, I am totally in favor of parking enforcement, and wouldnt have even been that upset to take the hit and pay the fine. Instead, I had to both pay the fine and wait an hour in that parking lot until someone (working for the boot company) came to unlock the boot on my car (and i was lucky they weren't busy that night).
- reneherse 3y ago
  The same thing happened to a colleague of mine in ATL just a month or so ago, so it seems the practice is longstanding and current. Note that it's private parking companies, not municipal agencies, doing the booting.
- pj_mukh 3y ago
  I think the problem here is the state (or city) offloading its basic enforcement functions to private corporations. And then most worryingly financially incentivizing over enforcement. This also happens with excessive towing [1] The city should have these folks on payroll instead of constantly contracting this stuff out. Yes, even on private property because it’s adjudication between two private properties (the car and the parking lot) [1] https://youtu.be/cs6u0iExry8?si=HQdJts_liwCP1_tV https://youtu.be/cs6u0iExry8?si=HQdJts_liwCP1_tV
  - phendrenad2 3y ago
    How would it be any different if the city applied the boots themselves? That sounds like an entirely orthogonal issue.
    - pj_mukh 3y ago
      Because city workers aren’t paid more to boot/tow more cars while private companies are. If the profit motive could be aligned with actual progress, somehow objectively measurable then contracting might makes sense.
      - acdha 3y ago
        I’d add greater oversight, too: you can’t FOIA the internal policies or records of a private company, and if there’s some policy change you have to rebid or do a painful contract amendment. I think the appeal to privatization is sometimes corruption – when we lived in New Haven, at least two of the city’s tow contracts always went to cousins of council members – but mostly it’s the hope that magic pixie dust will avoid the need for competent oversight. As you noted that only works out when the incentives align, and I don’t see that here.
  - wayfinder 3y ago
    I think cities do this because it’s cheaper. Parking enforcement costs the same whether it’s private or public but you can extract more money out of it by being dirty. It’s a bad look for the city if they’re dirty but if the private company they contract out does it, the city gets to wash their hands of it. Also pensions and stuff. Pretty bad.
    - stefan_ 3y ago
      Parking enforcement in just about any city costs nothing, it's profit making. Surely a private company can only be cheaper if it's literally paying the city?
      - deleted 3y ago
- elijaht 3y ago
  Yea Atlanta parking enforcement sucks. At least as of a few years ago it was outsourced to a private company(/companies) and they are very trigger happy. Had two tickets assessed incorrectly
- fsckboy 3y ago
  out of curiosity, did you have out of state plates? maybe they have different booting standards based on "collectibility" of the ticket
  - filoleg 3y ago
    Nope, GA plates registered in Fulton County (aka the same county that ATL is in). GA driver's license too, and the car was registered under my name.
- landemva 3y ago
  Was that a private lot?
  - filoleg 3y ago
    Not sure, but it was this[0] parking lot. It was behind a place that is currently marked as Sebastian Pintxos Bar on google maps. At the time, it was a korean-mexican fusion restaurant, forgot the name, it closed down permanently not that long ago. 0. https://maps.app.goo.gl/dQUE4yaaJTqVQ7En6?g_st=ic https://maps.app.goo.gl/dQUE4yaaJTqVQ7En6?g_st=ic
ok_dad 3y ago
This isn’t police boots, these are private lots. Personally, I think it should be illegal in any civil instances to boot a car, it should only be used by cops for major offenders. There is nothing immoral about what these girls are doing, IMO. There are a LOT of boot lickers in this thread today.
- gray_-_wolf 3y ago
  I am somewhat skeptical of the $50 they take for "freeing" the car. That for me personally puts it in a bit of gray area...
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Maybe, but their time to drive to your car and unlock it is worth something. And if you've gotten booted, your ticket fines greatly exceed $50, possibly by an order of magnitude. A Boot Girl's gotta eat, y'know?
  - dharmab 3y ago
    That's why they wear masks. Plenty of Silicon Valley businesses start out by openly breaking the law, too. The $50 covers the cost of travel, tools, advertising and personal risk.
    - kibwen 3y ago
      > Plenty of Silicon Valley businesses start out by openly breaking the law, too. If these girls had an app, they'd qualify for Y Combinator.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- stefan_ 3y ago
  Someone drives onto your private lot and leaves. What should be the recourse available to you as a property owner?
gtowey 3y ago
My problem with it is when private entities are allowed to boot your car. One time in Berkeley I parked in a parking lot and walked across the street to pick up some food. I was gone 5 minutes and when I returned there was a boot on my car. There was an attendant in the parking lot who informed me it was private property and only for the businesses next to the parking lot. They wanted $150 to remove the boot. This wasn't city parking enforcement, it was a private party. It's basically extortion. I get that they're trying to discourage non customers from using the lot, but it wasn't obvious it was restricted and clearly if they have someone in the lot full time, they could have warned me instead of immediately holding my car for ransom. Especially since I'm not from that area and I'm not familiar with local parking rules. It's purely an expensive trap. I don't think this case should be legal.
- fsckboy 3y ago
  [flagged]
- landemva 3y ago
  If it's a private lot, stealing their product is theft and trespassing. Should it be legal for people to do the same in your kitchen?
  - asadotzler 3y ago
    So sue for theft and trespassing. Confiscating my property and holding it hostage before a trial should be illegal.
    - landemva 3y ago
      On my property, a call to towing company removes it. The vehicle owner can deal with the tow and impound charges, during their business hours.
  - explaininjs 3y ago
    If you leave an open table full of food on the sidewalk, you shouldn’t then harass people for taking from it.
mathisfun123 3y ago
[flagged]
- paulgb 3y ago
  > one begins to wonder whether it's orchestrated It's not, lol. I've been on this site 16 years (user #590), if I'm astroturfing at least you have to give me credit for my long game :). I immigrated to the US, I know the pain of dealing with Kafkaesque institutions. But I've also seen an ambulance with its sirens on delayed by several minutes because of a double-parked minivan. At some point, we need to acknowledge that owning a motor vehicle is not a blank check for putting other people in danger.
  - mathisfun123 3y ago
    > But I've also seen an ambulance with its sirens on delayed by several minutes because of a double-parked minivan. So you're #3 then; there's not a single doubt in my mind that this is exceptional and the converse (people being booted unjustly/indiscriminately) is the norm.
    - dang 3y ago
      Could you please not cross into personal attack and please not post in the flamewar style to HN? We're trying for something different here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - mathisfun123 3y ago
        Do tell how pointing out that anecdata doesn't constitute a good faith engagement should be considered "personal attack" or "flamewar".
        dang 3y ago
        Accusing another commenter of bad faith is a personal attack, and the aggressive way you've been arguing is the flamewar style.

by paulgb 3y ago

filoleg 3y ago

About 8 years ago in Atlanta, I got booted on my first offence, by overstaying in the nearly empty parking lot in midtown by 15 mins (I paid for the hour of parking before that, but the restaurant took their time with the checks). I think "first time offense of being late on your parking by 15 mins - you get a boot" is pretty excessive. Don't get me wrong, I am totally in favor of parking enforcement, and wouldnt have even been that upset to take the hit and pay the fine. Instead, I had to both pay the fine and wait an hour in that parking lot until someone (working for the boot company) came to unlock the boot on my car (and i was lucky they weren't busy that night).

reneherse 3y ago
The same thing happened to a colleague of mine in ATL just a month or so ago, so it seems the practice is longstanding and current. Note that it's private parking companies, not municipal agencies, doing the booting.
pj_mukh 3y ago
I think the problem here is the state (or city) offloading its basic enforcement functions to private corporations. And then most worryingly financially incentivizing over enforcement. This also happens with excessive towing [1] The city should have these folks on payroll instead of constantly contracting this stuff out. Yes, even on private property because it’s adjudication between two private properties (the car and the parking lot) [1] https://youtu.be/cs6u0iExry8?si=HQdJts_liwCP1_tV https://youtu.be/cs6u0iExry8?si=HQdJts_liwCP1_tV
- phendrenad2 3y ago
  How would it be any different if the city applied the boots themselves? That sounds like an entirely orthogonal issue.
  - pj_mukh 3y ago
    Because city workers aren’t paid more to boot/tow more cars while private companies are. If the profit motive could be aligned with actual progress, somehow objectively measurable then contracting might makes sense.
    - acdha 3y ago
      I’d add greater oversight, too: you can’t FOIA the internal policies or records of a private company, and if there’s some policy change you have to rebid or do a painful contract amendment. I think the appeal to privatization is sometimes corruption – when we lived in New Haven, at least two of the city’s tow contracts always went to cousins of council members – but mostly it’s the hope that magic pixie dust will avoid the need for competent oversight. As you noted that only works out when the incentives align, and I don’t see that here.
- wayfinder 3y ago
  I think cities do this because it’s cheaper. Parking enforcement costs the same whether it’s private or public but you can extract more money out of it by being dirty. It’s a bad look for the city if they’re dirty but if the private company they contract out does it, the city gets to wash their hands of it. Also pensions and stuff. Pretty bad.
  - stefan_ 3y ago
    Parking enforcement in just about any city costs nothing, it's profit making. Surely a private company can only be cheaper if it's literally paying the city?
    - deleted 3y ago
elijaht 3y ago
Yea Atlanta parking enforcement sucks. At least as of a few years ago it was outsourced to a private company(/companies) and they are very trigger happy. Had two tickets assessed incorrectly
fsckboy 3y ago
out of curiosity, did you have out of state plates? maybe they have different booting standards based on "collectibility" of the ticket
- filoleg 3y ago
  Nope, GA plates registered in Fulton County (aka the same county that ATL is in). GA driver's license too, and the car was registered under my name.
landemva 3y ago
Was that a private lot?
- filoleg 3y ago
  Not sure, but it was this[0] parking lot. It was behind a place that is currently marked as Sebastian Pintxos Bar on google maps. At the time, it was a korean-mexican fusion restaurant, forgot the name, it closed down permanently not that long ago. 0. https://maps.app.goo.gl/dQUE4yaaJTqVQ7En6?g_st=ic https://maps.app.goo.gl/dQUE4yaaJTqVQ7En6?g_st=ic

ok_dad 3y ago

This isn’t police boots, these are private lots. Personally, I think it should be illegal in any civil instances to boot a car, it should only be used by cops for major offenders. There is nothing immoral about what these girls are doing, IMO. There are a LOT of boot lickers in this thread today.

gray_-_wolf 3y ago
I am somewhat skeptical of the $50 they take for "freeing" the car. That for me personally puts it in a bit of gray area...
- fragmede 3y ago
  Maybe, but their time to drive to your car and unlock it is worth something. And if you've gotten booted, your ticket fines greatly exceed $50, possibly by an order of magnitude. A Boot Girl's gotta eat, y'know?
- dharmab 3y ago
  That's why they wear masks. Plenty of Silicon Valley businesses start out by openly breaking the law, too. The $50 covers the cost of travel, tools, advertising and personal risk.
  - kibwen 3y ago
    > Plenty of Silicon Valley businesses start out by openly breaking the law, too. If these girls had an app, they'd qualify for Y Combinator.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
stefan_ 3y ago
Someone drives onto your private lot and leaves. What should be the recourse available to you as a property owner?

gtowey 3y ago

My problem with it is when private entities are allowed to boot your car. One time in Berkeley I parked in a parking lot and walked across the street to pick up some food. I was gone 5 minutes and when I returned there was a boot on my car. There was an attendant in the parking lot who informed me it was private property and only for the businesses next to the parking lot. They wanted $150 to remove the boot. This wasn't city parking enforcement, it was a private party. It's basically extortion. I get that they're trying to discourage non customers from using the lot, but it wasn't obvious it was restricted and clearly if they have someone in the lot full time, they could have warned me instead of immediately holding my car for ransom. Especially since I'm not from that area and I'm not familiar with local parking rules. It's purely an expensive trap. I don't think this case should be legal.

fsckboy 3y ago
[flagged]
landemva 3y ago
If it's a private lot, stealing their product is theft and trespassing. Should it be legal for people to do the same in your kitchen?
- asadotzler 3y ago
  So sue for theft and trespassing. Confiscating my property and holding it hostage before a trial should be illegal.
  - landemva 3y ago
    On my property, a call to towing company removes it. The vehicle owner can deal with the tow and impound charges, during their business hours.
- explaininjs 3y ago
  If you leave an open table full of food on the sidewalk, you shouldn’t then harass people for taking from it.

mathisfun123 3y ago

[flagged]

paulgb 3y ago
> one begins to wonder whether it's orchestrated It's not, lol. I've been on this site 16 years (user #590), if I'm astroturfing at least you have to give me credit for my long game :). I immigrated to the US, I know the pain of dealing with Kafkaesque institutions. But I've also seen an ambulance with its sirens on delayed by several minutes because of a double-parked minivan. At some point, we need to acknowledge that owning a motor vehicle is not a blank check for putting other people in danger.
- mathisfun123 3y ago
  > But I've also seen an ambulance with its sirens on delayed by several minutes because of a double-parked minivan. So you're #3 then; there's not a single doubt in my mind that this is exceptional and the converse (people being booted unjustly/indiscriminately) is the norm.
  - dang 3y ago
    Could you please not cross into personal attack and please not post in the flamewar style to HN? We're trying for something different here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - mathisfun123 3y ago
      Do tell how pointing out that anecdata doesn't constitute a good faith engagement should be considered "personal attack" or "flamewar".
      - dang 3y ago
        Accusing another commenter of bad faith is a personal attack, and the aggressive way you've been arguing is the flamewar style.