5 ms·

This sort of snobbery is pretty silly. Do you think engineers didn't exist throughout all of history until someone decided to start handing out pieces of paper?

tamimio 3y ago
Writing a piece of code after a bootcamp isn’t engineering, and being the technical guy will not make you an engineer either, for starters, you learn engineering ethics in the engineering disciplines, and he (or she) would know what to do in that situation. What OP pulled will rarely ever happen in civil/electrical engineering because they can report that and revoke the company license.
closewith 3y ago
It’s neither snobbery nor silly. Do you slavishly adhere to the etymological definitions of all the terms that you use? If so, the OP is still not an engineer unless he’s writing software for weapons. In the end, anyone lying to their client about the standards their software adheres to is not undertaking engineering.
- gaganyaan 3y ago
  Yeah sorry, it's silly. Use the term "licensed engineer" or something. Don't come up with new definitions for words and then get offended when people point out that you're being silly.
  - closewith 3y ago
    > Don't come up with new definitions for words and then get offended when people point out that you're being silly. I think some introspection may be required here.
    - gaganyaan 3y ago
      I think you don't understand what you just quoted. But yes, you should introspect about why you're being silly about trying to redefine a word and then getting offended over it.
  - criddell 3y ago
    In North America at least, the term is Professional Engineer. PEs are generally licensed in a way similar to doctors and lawyers. At one point there was a push to professionalize software engineers, but it never got very far. Feel free to call yourself a software engineer (or even a software doctor). The titles aren’t controlled and as a result don’t really mean anything.
    - iboisvert 3y ago
      I believe that in Canada, and certainly in Alberta, the titles are very much controlled. The regulatory group APEGA has a Professional Engineer designation for software engineers as well
      - criddell 3y ago
        Context matters. Even in Alberta, the term “software engineer” doesn’t mean anything. Last time I looked into this, Quebec was trying the hardest to control usage and they actually took Microsoft to court for their MCSE title. Another example: the University of Alberta has a software engineering program. https://www.ualberta.ca/computing-science/research/research-areas/software-engineering.html https://www.ualberta.ca/computing-science/research/research-... Search on Canadian job sites and you will find hundreds of software engineering jobs across Canada (including Alberta). Other examples of non-PE engineers include stationary engineer (people who operate boilers) and locomotive engineer (people who operate trains). They may have their own regulations, but it is entirely distinct from Professional Engineers.
    - ragestorm 3y ago
      One of the few here! Hardly anyone else though.
    - kens 3y ago
      > the titles aren't controlled It's a bit complicated. In Oregon, for example, someone was fined $500 in 2015 for referring to themselves an engineer; although they had an engineering degree, they were not a licensed professional engineer. The state law was invalidated in 2018. https://ij.org/press-release/oregon-engineer-wins-traffic-light-timing-lawsuit/ https://ij.org/press-release/oregon-engineer-wins-traffic-li...
- Zpalmtree 3y ago
  Why?
frognumber 3y ago
Doctors existed all throughout history too. However, in 2023, if you call yourself a doctor without a medical license, you've got a problem.
- gaganyaan 3y ago
  In 2023, if you call yourself a "car doctor" or "software doctor" nobody will bat an eye. If you call yourself a doctor in a way that implies that you have a medical license, people will get upset. If you call yourself an engineer in a way that implies that you have a relevant license, people will similarly be upset. The OP squabbling about someone calling themselves a "software engineer" is just being silly. Where it matters in the US, the term "professional engineer" exists for exactly this distinction.
  - closewith 3y ago
    So your argument is that a software developer can use the term software engineer because no reasonable person would assume that they actually are an engineer? Bold strategy.
    - gaganyaan 3y ago
      Sigh, no. There's many types of engineers, and if you imply that you're a type of engineer you're not, people will get upset. Stop looking for "gotchas", especially ones that demonstrate a lack of reading comprehension.
      - closewith 3y ago
        > There's many types of engineers, and if you imply that you're a type of engineer you're not, people will get upset. For example, a software engineer. > Stop looking for "gotchas", especially ones that demonstrate a lack of reading comprehension. The irony is palpable.
        gaganyaan 3y ago
marcosdumay 3y ago
The OP is only saying that if he had the piece of paper, he would know that the piece of paper would almost automatically be retracted as soon as he acted like this. And, no, this sort of thing didn't exist before the pieces of paper, for obvious reasons.

tamimio 3y ago

Writing a piece of code after a bootcamp isn’t engineering, and being the technical guy will not make you an engineer either, for starters, you learn engineering ethics in the engineering disciplines, and he (or she) would know what to do in that situation. What OP pulled will rarely ever happen in civil/electrical engineering because they can report that and revoke the company license.

closewith 3y ago

It’s neither snobbery nor silly. Do you slavishly adhere to the etymological definitions of all the terms that you use? If so, the OP is still not an engineer unless he’s writing software for weapons. In the end, anyone lying to their client about the standards their software adheres to is not undertaking engineering.

gaganyaan 3y ago
Yeah sorry, it's silly. Use the term "licensed engineer" or something. Don't come up with new definitions for words and then get offended when people point out that you're being silly.
- closewith 3y ago
  > Don't come up with new definitions for words and then get offended when people point out that you're being silly. I think some introspection may be required here.
  - gaganyaan 3y ago
    I think you don't understand what you just quoted. But yes, you should introspect about why you're being silly about trying to redefine a word and then getting offended over it.
- criddell 3y ago
  In North America at least, the term is Professional Engineer. PEs are generally licensed in a way similar to doctors and lawyers. At one point there was a push to professionalize software engineers, but it never got very far. Feel free to call yourself a software engineer (or even a software doctor). The titles aren’t controlled and as a result don’t really mean anything.
  - iboisvert 3y ago
    I believe that in Canada, and certainly in Alberta, the titles are very much controlled. The regulatory group APEGA has a Professional Engineer designation for software engineers as well
    - criddell 3y ago
      Context matters. Even in Alberta, the term “software engineer” doesn’t mean anything. Last time I looked into this, Quebec was trying the hardest to control usage and they actually took Microsoft to court for their MCSE title. Another example: the University of Alberta has a software engineering program. https://www.ualberta.ca/computing-science/research/research-areas/software-engineering.html https://www.ualberta.ca/computing-science/research/research-... Search on Canadian job sites and you will find hundreds of software engineering jobs across Canada (including Alberta). Other examples of non-PE engineers include stationary engineer (people who operate boilers) and locomotive engineer (people who operate trains). They may have their own regulations, but it is entirely distinct from Professional Engineers.
  - ragestorm 3y ago
    One of the few here! Hardly anyone else though.
  - kens 3y ago
    > the titles aren't controlled It's a bit complicated. In Oregon, for example, someone was fined $500 in 2015 for referring to themselves an engineer; although they had an engineering degree, they were not a licensed professional engineer. The state law was invalidated in 2018. https://ij.org/press-release/oregon-engineer-wins-traffic-light-timing-lawsuit/ https://ij.org/press-release/oregon-engineer-wins-traffic-li...
Zpalmtree 3y ago
Why?

frognumber 3y ago

Doctors existed all throughout history too. However, in 2023, if you call yourself a doctor without a medical license, you've got a problem.

gaganyaan 3y ago
In 2023, if you call yourself a "car doctor" or "software doctor" nobody will bat an eye. If you call yourself a doctor in a way that implies that you have a medical license, people will get upset. If you call yourself an engineer in a way that implies that you have a relevant license, people will similarly be upset. The OP squabbling about someone calling themselves a "software engineer" is just being silly. Where it matters in the US, the term "professional engineer" exists for exactly this distinction.
- closewith 3y ago
  So your argument is that a software developer can use the term software engineer because no reasonable person would assume that they actually are an engineer? Bold strategy.
  - gaganyaan 3y ago
    Sigh, no. There's many types of engineers, and if you imply that you're a type of engineer you're not, people will get upset. Stop looking for "gotchas", especially ones that demonstrate a lack of reading comprehension.
    - closewith 3y ago
      > There's many types of engineers, and if you imply that you're a type of engineer you're not, people will get upset. For example, a software engineer. > Stop looking for "gotchas", especially ones that demonstrate a lack of reading comprehension. The irony is palpable.
      - gaganyaan 3y ago

marcosdumay 3y ago

The OP is only saying that if he had the piece of paper, he would know that the piece of paper would almost automatically be retracted as soon as he acted like this. And, no, this sort of thing didn't exist before the pieces of paper, for obvious reasons.