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Marc Benioff: “I don’t work well in an office”
- wazokazi 3y agoRemote is ok if your personality doesn't mesh with an office. And you are the CEO. This should do wonders for feeling of "ohana" at salesforce.
- aurareturn 3y agoA little misleading since the CEO is always on the road meeting customers - while the brand of WFH HN advocates is never having to leave the house.
- fakedang 3y agoBusiness development what? Salesforce is a publicly traded billion dollar company, not an early stage startup.
- aurareturn 3y agoRead the article. It's explained there. A CEO traveling around to meet customers isn't a bad thing. In addition, he's the co-CEO and probably left day to day operations to the real CEO.
- lovich 3y agoSo is he either a figure head that can work remotely because he doesn’t matter, or is he doing “real work” and it turns out that working remotely does work? Execs like to paint working remotely as something that is wasteful and so the common employee shouldn’t be allowed to do so, while simultaneously extolling the virtues of their remote work. It’s reminiscent of the time I worked at one company and the chairman of the board showed up to give us a rousing speech that included the fact that he only showed up because he was going to a board meeting for another company whose board he was on in the same city. This was less than a month after one of our coworkers got shit canned after it was found out that he was moonlighting. This is a bit ranty by the tl;dnr is that lots of jobs align with remote work and I am personally pissed that you try to frame it as ok because it’s a CEO and then in the next sentence you try to blunt the message by saying he’s just a “co-ceo” so it’s not that bad
- aurareturn 3y agoJust read the article. He doesn't like to work from the office because he said he prefers to be on the road meeting customers. Meanwhile, the brand of WFH HN folks want is to not leave the house and interact with real humans in person. The only reason I said "co-ceo" is because I was responding to someone who, for whatever reason, thinks a multi-billion public company shouldn't have its CEO talk to customers.
- biogene 3y agoI agree with you, people are twisting your words and setting up a strawman.
- glasss 3y agoI think that proves a point that some jobs can be done outside of the office, so why not have people work where they prefer? For this CEO it's on the road. For a lot of people it's at home. For a lot of people it's both.
- lovich 3y agoThat’s odd because the the brand of WFH that most people I’ve met want is identical to what they do in the office sans the commute. That being that they hop onto a zoom meeting with people who are in other physical locations or they are working independently and the office is just a distraction. Another commenter mentioned that people were setting up a straw man against your words but I can’t agree. You keep implying that it’s rational for c levels to be working remote and then implying that regular employees only want wfh because they are just anti social. Your comments are heavily biased with one viewpoint and I heartily disagree with it
- robertlagrant 3y ago> You keep implying that it’s rational for c levels to be working remote and then implying that regular employees only want wfh because they are just anti social. Why change what was said? The statement wasn't about "c levels" - it was one person who is on the road a lot meeting customers. Like a super senior sales role. That's different to team/collaboration-based roles where colocation might (just before you change this too: remember - might) well massively improve things.
- jonny_eh 3y ago> A CEO traveling around to meet customers isn't a bad thing Same goes for meeting employees.
- robertlagrant 3y agoProbably more efficient to have all the employees go to a building and meet each other.
- jonny_eh 3y agoWith the CEO there too, they're an employee after-all.
- robertlagrant 3y agoIndeed - that's exactly why I didn't list them separately.
- intended 3y agowhy is the CEO of sales force doing sales?? Is he firefighting? Why isnt he doing strategy, management and the other things CEOs do? Like hiring a CMO or BD head to do all the traveling he is doing? >Well, I’m a remote worker. I’ve always been a remote worker my whole life. I don’t work well in an office,” Benioff said. “It just doesn’t work for my personality. I can’t tell you why. I do love to go in to visit customers though. I’m on the road constantly visiting customers.” Ah, so he doesnt need to do sales. He likes doing it. It just …works… for his personality.
- Rebelgecko 3y agoI know of one company who got the majority of their business because their CEO wined and dined some of his fellow CEOs and take them rides on his private aircraft. If Benioff is doing that sort of thing and enjoys it, more power to him Even on the less cynical side, there's something to be said for hearing from customers directly instead of filtered through 5 levels of middle management
- intended 3y agoSales force has a market cap of 200 bn. There is a lot that happens at that size - one of which you should have a trust worthy team who does exactly that; its why they get paid - leadership. His is a Saas firm. This argument is inappropriate as a defense. You can do this a few times, the rest of the time he needs to be in office. Failing which - like elon said - its an excuse to slack off. So its either 1) odd sales situation 2) weasel worded sentence 3) delinquency - a la Elon “people who wfh are slacking” It’s great if it’s 1 and he fixes it, but then he has to get back to office. In which case his “i dont have an office personality” line works against him.
- Gareth321 3y agoWhile true, it does highlight the fact that white collar jobs are diverse, and not all of them require one to be in the office. In fact, most of probably do not.
- aurareturn 3y agoIf your job is to meet and talk to customers, then yea, it isn't required to be in the office. In this case, you're not WFH. You're actually WFWCA (where ever customers are).
- raverbashing 3y ago"customer facing" is a common term for this
- rgrieselhuber 3y agoI think more remote is inevitable. Think of how much time is stolen from you in a daily commute. Remote is better for the environment too.
- Gigachad 3y ago> Think of how much time is stolen from you in a daily commute Not that much. And I just read hacker news while sitting on the train which I was going to do if sitting at home anyway.
- WeylandYutani 3y agoA train that has seats left in rush hour? I envy you.
- this15testing1 3y agooh right, gigchad speaks for all people on earth who obviously have the same commute and transport options
- DiggyJohnson 3y agoThey never implied that. Your insult is completely out of place.
- khuedoan 3y agoOnly if you live in a country with decent public transportation. The rest of the world still have to deal with traffic jam and polluted air while commuting (cars are difficult to get in many countries).
- justinclift 3y agohttps://archive.li/43jZA https://archive.li/43jZA
- DoreenMichele 3y agoEh, sounds like the title is possibly either poor communication or a comment cherry-picked for the purpose of being provocative. He seems to have some nuance and flexibility on the issue that some people lack.
- 15457345234 3y agoSOMEONE'S BEING PROVOCATIVE ON THE INTERNET IN 2023 TELL ME MORE WE MUST STUDY THIS NEW PHENOMENON CLOSELY
- tyingq 3y agoIt seems fair to use some amount of propaganda to push the "I want to work from home" agenda, since companies pushing "return to work" are also playing that same game. I agree that he seems to have nuance on the topic, but the playing field seems to have already abandoned fair play.
- DoreenMichele 3y agoIt may be fair to do so but not necessarily effective. People tend to start tuning out what they see as hyperbole. The companies may seem to get away with it, but not because they use a particular language tactic. They have the power to back up their "opinion" by firing people. People who want to keep their job may stop arguing, not because they buy the BS framing but because they have bills to pay. The folks who hope to take a stand in the interest of worker's rights would be better served by trying hard to stick to the facts, promote nuanced discussions and not let the companies drag them into this kind of pissing contest.
- Mandatum 3y agoStewart Butterfield must be having a very heavy celebratory drink this evening, likely Suntory.
- KptMarchewa 3y agoMaybe he'll succeed with finally launching the MMO game at his third company.
- havkom 3y agoI am now back to a developer role, rather than being a manager (by my own choosing). I am much more productive (and actually communicate more with my colleagues (!)) when I work from home. Luckily my terms allow me to choose where I work from when by my-self.
- mpeg 3y agoOff topic, but I’ve been thinking about doing the same, I’ve seen other people at my level take pay cuts of only 10%~ going from management to IC while erasing meetings from their calendars I’m kinda jealous, the only thing that is keeping me in management roles is the fantasy that the perfect company will come along with the right product, right growth stage but that is looking unlikely in this economy.
- prmoustache 3y agoRecently someone posted an office etiquette post on our intranet, citing all you should do or avoid so that your coworkers can work and focus comfortably. The person posting it probably though it was helpful, but it was just showing how an hell of a place offices have become since they went the open space route.
- sshine 3y agoI’d like a good write-up. My current boss has this tendency to interrupt anyone when he is not doing something, let daily stand-ups go into 30-40 minutes, and ask everyone to gather for spontaneous group meetings regardless of their ability to contribute or how important their current task is. I’m not very good at phrasing this criticism positively, and while I have addressed some of them, little has happened. I try to educate myself to become a better leader, and I only want to help him do the same.
- ethanbond 3y agohttp://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html Try this?^
- HenryBemis 3y agoCould you please give us some of the examples? (4-5 and do change the wording to protect yourself)
- tiffanyh 3y agoJust remember ... the CEO role of a major company is radically different than any other job. What Marc calls "work", you and I can't relate too. He's spending a disporportionate amount of time talking to investors, talking to customers, talking to his Board. I wouldn't be surprised if he's traveling 100 business days a year as a result. Which if you're not at home because you're traveling for work, or if you are at home but just talking phone calls - that's a very different type of "working remote". === EDIT: why the downvotes? Please comment if you disagree with something I said so that we can have a health discourse.
- mpeg 3y agoYes, when he says he doesn’t work well in an office people here are reading he wants to work from home. In reality, he’s probably thinking he’d rather be on the road than stay in his SV ivory tower. Two stories about Benioff you might find interesting; when we were selling our startup there were two bidders on the table, Google and Salesforce. Google sent out minions, Larry and Sergey were only reachable via email/call. Benioff flew over to wine and dine our founders, they found common ground and he charmed them with his vision of where he saw our product going. He won with a lower bid than Google. After the acquisition closed, he flew over to London too to visit my business unit, we met with him in the office and the senior management team were again taken out for some 1:1 time with him over dinner. Any skepticism they might have had was washed away after that evening, they all came back “brainwashed” into the Salesforce way — he even gifted us one of the domain names from his personal collection to use for our product (my email was marcos@social.com for a while, which I did find really cool) The second story, he once logged into an all hands call using a shitty satellite connection from his yacht in the middle of the Mediterranean. He could have delegated while he was on holiday, but I don’t think Benioff ever switches off, hence why working from anywhere is his default mode of operation.
- tiffanyh 3y agoThanks for sharing that story, really enjoyed reading it. >> "He won with a lower bid than Google." Off topic: why would a company every sell to a lower bidder? If you have any investors in the company (not bootstrapped), don't you have a fiduciary responsibility to always sell to the highest bidder.
- ltr_ 3y agoin my experience all middle management people that wants everyone to go back to the offices are useless pieces of crap.
- adverbly 3y agoThis is quite an editorialized title... it makes the CEO look like they have an extreme viewpoint, but in reality it sounded like the CEO had a pretty based and nuanced take: never enforce remote, and recognize that different kinds of work require more in office than others. The only thing that I disagreed with was the "we don't want to lose our stars" mentality. Your mentality should not be about pushing people as far as you can until you have retention problems. Rather, it should be to inform people and provide them with opportunities to be productive in whatever way they prefer, and cut them lose if their output is not sufficient. Make decisions by outputs - not inputs.
- somsak2 3y agoI guess "drops a bomb" is a little over the top but the rest of the title are just facts. Salesforce really did ask people to come back, and he did indeed say he doesn't work well in an office.
- nunez 3y agoIf you have a job where you're constantly travelling (for sales calls, customer meetings, relationship building, etc.), then, yeah, having to report to an office when you're back at home base doesn't make any sense. I have a job like this (presales; previously consulting). I'm usually on the road/in the air every week and, COVID aside, have been for the last seven years. An office hasn't made sense for me in a long time. However, the co-CEO saying this just after pushing an RTO mandate feels really out of place. Many will definitely not get the nuance.
- aaomidi 3y agoThe nuance? There’s no nuance here. There is not a single way in the universe that __everyone else__ needs to be in office but his job is so special that he has to WFH.
- strip_e 3y agoSome in my company argue that remote is the way to go but when it comes to traveling to another office on another continent, it suddenly becomes so important to meet colleagues in person and they stay here for weeks or months, all while making weekend hops to vacation destinations.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]