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I always wondered if it is the sodium or the chlorine that triggers the flavor. Unfortunately licking raw sodium would explode and elemental chlorine is a gas t

I always wondered if it is the sodium or the chlorine that triggers the flavor. Unfortunately licking raw sodium would explode and elemental chlorine is a gas that burns ¯ \ _ ( ツ ) _ / ¯

Synaesthesia 3y ago
Ions are very different to the atomic form. For instance copper is the familiar red-brown metal. Cu2+ ions though, are blue and dissolve in water. Clearly they are entirely different species.
hinkley 3y ago
Potassium chloride tastes a lot like salt, but not exactly. Which I think means that it's some sort of 80/20 ratio. Also one of my favorite science thought experiments from the last few years: What ~~does hydrogen~~ do protons taste like?
- stouset 3y ago
  Hydrogen ions. More specifically, protons. Spoiler (rot13): Lbhe fbhe erprcgbef qrgrpg npvqf. Npvqf ner zbyrphyrf juvpu unir serr cbfvgvir ulqebtra vbaf (nxn cebgbaf). Cebgbaf gnfgr fbhe.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    I knew there was something wrong with that phrasing, thank you. Turns out they taste like burning (acid, in particular).
  - addaon 3y ago
    > Hydrogen ions. More specifically, protons. Well, hydronium ions (H3O+). Naked protons aren't really a thing in aqueous solution.
- Traubenfuchs 3y ago
  > Potassium chloride tastes a lot like salt Not at all, it‘s disgusting. The idea of replacing NaCl with it is laughable.
  - crazygringo 3y ago
    It's not though? I can't really tell the difference at normal food salt levels. For people with hypertension it's a fantastic replacement. Or even if you're concerned about low potassium. I mean, Morton sells it as salt replacement in little salt shakers in the grocery store. It's pretty mainstream.
    - hinkley 3y ago
      We've been coming back around to the idea it's not the sodium but the chlorine that's the problem in hypertension. Hypertension is one of those areas we like to pretend like we know what we're doing but it's half bullshit and accidental boner pills. Also how do you tell your friend that his wife is kind of a lot and maybe his hypertension is cortisol and not congenital?
      - steveBK123 3y ago
        > Also how do you tell your friend that his wife is kind of a lot and maybe his hypertension is cortisol and not congenital? many such cases
    - ComputerGuru 3y ago
      > I mean, Morton sells it as salt replacement in little salt shakers in the grocery store. It's pretty mainstream. They also sell margarine in cute butter-like packages and sweet ‘n low or stevia in the same single-serve packets as sugar. Doesn’t mean they don’t taste absolutely foul.
      - scns 3y ago
        > They also sell margarine in cute butter-like packages Don't wanna call it deceiving. People, who followed their doctors advice, and switched to margarine after a heart attack, more often had another one than those who stayed with butter. Hm, just thought: Maybe it has to do more with the anxiety of those individuals than the trans fats in margarine. Still, i keep those plastic fats out of my body.
Traubenfuchs 3y ago
I don‘t think that question makes sense. This is like asking whether the H or the O makes water wet: It‘s the combination.
- MostlyStable 3y ago
  Except that NaCl dissolves into sodium and chloride ions in water. in any context in which you are actually tasting it, you are not tasting NaCl, you are tasting some combination of Na+ and Cl-, at which point, asking which (if either) is the one driving the experience.
  - Traubenfuchs 3y ago
    I did not know that. What happens if you take out all the Na atoms? Will it become a deadly Cl wash?
    - kadoban 3y ago
      > What happens if you take out all the Na atoms? You can't _just_ take out the Na. You'd have to do some kind of reaction, and then it'd really just depend what you put in instead. The closest thing I can think of to "take out all the Na atoms" would be https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloralkali_process https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloralkali_process , where yeah you get a lot of Chlorine and lye.
janci 3y ago
Somebody tried to find out: https://youtu.be/RJh9yTIBY48?si=7YWV6WbZ3mAWE0Si https://youtu.be/RJh9yTIBY48?si=7YWV6WbZ3mAWE0Si
- fellowmartian 3y ago
  It’s not just somebody, it’s Tom from Explosions&Fire! He’s an absolute legend.
twic 3y ago
Both. That horrible Finnish salty liquorice is made salty by the addition of ammonium chloride, which has no sodium. Sodium acetate and sodium glutamate taste salty, despite having no chloride in. My speculative guess would be that the salt sensor just senses ionic strength, so any substance which readily splits into ions will taste salty. (obviously i wrote this comment before reading the article, which talks about all this stuff in modest detail!)

I always wondered if it is the sodium or the chlorine that triggers the flavor. Unfortunately licking raw sodium would explode and elemental chlorine is a gas that burns ¯ \ _ ( ツ ) _ / ¯

Synaesthesia 3y ago

Ions are very different to the atomic form. For instance copper is the familiar red-brown metal. Cu2+ ions though, are blue and dissolve in water. Clearly they are entirely different species.

hinkley 3y ago

Potassium chloride tastes a lot like salt, but not exactly. Which I think means that it's some sort of 80/20 ratio. Also one of my favorite science thought experiments from the last few years: What ~~does hydrogen~~ do protons taste like?

stouset 3y ago
Hydrogen ions. More specifically, protons. Spoiler (rot13): Lbhe fbhe erprcgbef qrgrpg npvqf. Npvqf ner zbyrphyrf juvpu unir serr cbfvgvir ulqebtra vbaf (nxn cebgbaf). Cebgbaf gnfgr fbhe.
- hinkley 3y ago
  I knew there was something wrong with that phrasing, thank you. Turns out they taste like burning (acid, in particular).
- addaon 3y ago
  > Hydrogen ions. More specifically, protons. Well, hydronium ions (H3O+). Naked protons aren't really a thing in aqueous solution.
Traubenfuchs 3y ago
> Potassium chloride tastes a lot like salt Not at all, it‘s disgusting. The idea of replacing NaCl with it is laughable.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  It's not though? I can't really tell the difference at normal food salt levels. For people with hypertension it's a fantastic replacement. Or even if you're concerned about low potassium. I mean, Morton sells it as salt replacement in little salt shakers in the grocery store. It's pretty mainstream.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    We've been coming back around to the idea it's not the sodium but the chlorine that's the problem in hypertension. Hypertension is one of those areas we like to pretend like we know what we're doing but it's half bullshit and accidental boner pills. Also how do you tell your friend that his wife is kind of a lot and maybe his hypertension is cortisol and not congenital?
    - steveBK123 3y ago
      > Also how do you tell your friend that his wife is kind of a lot and maybe his hypertension is cortisol and not congenital? many such cases
  - ComputerGuru 3y ago
    > I mean, Morton sells it as salt replacement in little salt shakers in the grocery store. It's pretty mainstream. They also sell margarine in cute butter-like packages and sweet ‘n low or stevia in the same single-serve packets as sugar. Doesn’t mean they don’t taste absolutely foul.
    - scns 3y ago
      > They also sell margarine in cute butter-like packages Don't wanna call it deceiving. People, who followed their doctors advice, and switched to margarine after a heart attack, more often had another one than those who stayed with butter. Hm, just thought: Maybe it has to do more with the anxiety of those individuals than the trans fats in margarine. Still, i keep those plastic fats out of my body.

Traubenfuchs 3y ago

I don‘t think that question makes sense. This is like asking whether the H or the O makes water wet: It‘s the combination.

MostlyStable 3y ago
Except that NaCl dissolves into sodium and chloride ions in water. in any context in which you are actually tasting it, you are not tasting NaCl, you are tasting some combination of Na+ and Cl-, at which point, asking which (if either) is the one driving the experience.
- Traubenfuchs 3y ago
  I did not know that. What happens if you take out all the Na atoms? Will it become a deadly Cl wash?
  - kadoban 3y ago
    > What happens if you take out all the Na atoms? You can't _just_ take out the Na. You'd have to do some kind of reaction, and then it'd really just depend what you put in instead. The closest thing I can think of to "take out all the Na atoms" would be https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloralkali_process https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloralkali_process , where yeah you get a lot of Chlorine and lye.

janci 3y ago

Somebody tried to find out: https://youtu.be/RJh9yTIBY48?si=7YWV6WbZ3mAWE0Si https://youtu.be/RJh9yTIBY48?si=7YWV6WbZ3mAWE0Si

fellowmartian 3y ago
It’s not just somebody, it’s Tom from Explosions&Fire! He’s an absolute legend.

twic 3y ago

Both. That horrible Finnish salty liquorice is made salty by the addition of ammonium chloride, which has no sodium. Sodium acetate and sodium glutamate taste salty, despite having no chloride in. My speculative guess would be that the salt sensor just senses ionic strength, so any substance which readily splits into ions will taste salty. (obviously i wrote this comment before reading the article, which talks about all this stuff in modest detail!)