18 ms·

Some of us will strategically write generic code on our own time and machines and import it to employers machines when needed and customize it. For instance, ho

Some of us will strategically write generic code on our own time and machines and import it to employers machines when needed and customize it. For instance, how many times do you really need to write a spring OAuth server that integrates with LDAP? Or the guts of a simple CRUD app?

Kwpolska 3y ago
> how many times do you really need to write a spring OAuth server that integrates with LDAP? I would expect this to be a library somewhere. > import it to employers machines How would you prove that you write the code long before getting hired by them?
- dartos 3y ago
  Someone wrote the library for a reason, right? Many are made bc people needed it for their job.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  > I would expect this to be a library somewhere. Indeed. That library is often written off-the-clock by person X and imported on-the-clock by person Y. Sometimes X === Y.
  - bastawhiz 3y ago
    And sometimes that person even writes about it on substack
- soperj 3y ago
  > How would you prove that you write the code long before getting hired by them? Commit it to a repo somewhere.
  - hu3 3y ago
    This is what I did once. And it worked! I have a 4 years 1 day old repo for code that was used in a job 4 years ago. But I made sure to have a written agreement saying that the code I was bringing in was, within reasonable limits, still mine. Clearly this doesn't include code that was produced during the job.
- pc86 3y ago
  I would hope "import" in this sense means it gets pushed to your personal git[hub,lab,] repo, and forked from your work account.
contravariant 3y ago
Of course those of us familiar with copyright law would probably not admit to doing so publicly, right?
- sublinear 3y ago
  Quite the opposite. Software written off the clock that does not compete with the employer is not only not the property of the employer, but any contract attempting to gain such ownership is unenforceable. Many businesses even actively encourage their developers to contribute to open source projects.
  - School-Cotton 3y ago
    > any contract attempting to gain such ownership is unenforceable I highly doubt that this is true, at least in the US. Can you cite case law? You can write a contract granting ownership of all the songs a musician performs, or all the books a writer writes during a specified time period. Why shouldn't the same be true of programmers and code?
    - Tao3300 3y ago
      Because no programmer is going to sign that. They'll go somewhere else. Musicians and writers don't usually have as many options, if any.
      - ryandrake 3y ago
        Many programmers sign this. I directly know that at least two FAANG employers (and probably all of them), have extremely broad copyright assignment clauses in their employment agreements that claim ownership of every software you create, on or off the clock, using company equipment or your own equipment. And many people work for these companies. Whether these are enforceable or not doesn't matter because a lone developer is not going to go up against an army of corporate lawyers to find out.
        3y ago

Kwpolska 3y ago

> how many times do you really need to write a spring OAuth server that integrates with LDAP? I would expect this to be a library somewhere. > import it to employers machines How would you prove that you write the code long before getting hired by them?

dartos 3y ago
Someone wrote the library for a reason, right? Many are made bc people needed it for their job.
sokoloff 3y ago
> I would expect this to be a library somewhere. Indeed. That library is often written off-the-clock by person X and imported on-the-clock by person Y. Sometimes X === Y.
- bastawhiz 3y ago
  And sometimes that person even writes about it on substack
soperj 3y ago
> How would you prove that you write the code long before getting hired by them? Commit it to a repo somewhere.
- hu3 3y ago
  This is what I did once. And it worked! I have a 4 years 1 day old repo for code that was used in a job 4 years ago. But I made sure to have a written agreement saying that the code I was bringing in was, within reasonable limits, still mine. Clearly this doesn't include code that was produced during the job.
pc86 3y ago
I would hope "import" in this sense means it gets pushed to your personal git[hub,lab,] repo, and forked from your work account.

contravariant 3y ago

Of course those of us familiar with copyright law would probably not admit to doing so publicly, right?

sublinear 3y ago
Quite the opposite. Software written off the clock that does not compete with the employer is not only not the property of the employer, but any contract attempting to gain such ownership is unenforceable. Many businesses even actively encourage their developers to contribute to open source projects.
- School-Cotton 3y ago
  > any contract attempting to gain such ownership is unenforceable I highly doubt that this is true, at least in the US. Can you cite case law? You can write a contract granting ownership of all the songs a musician performs, or all the books a writer writes during a specified time period. Why shouldn't the same be true of programmers and code?
  - Tao3300 3y ago
    Because no programmer is going to sign that. They'll go somewhere else. Musicians and writers don't usually have as many options, if any.
    - ryandrake 3y ago
      Many programmers sign this. I directly know that at least two FAANG employers (and probably all of them), have extremely broad copyright assignment clauses in their employment agreements that claim ownership of every software you create, on or off the clock, using company equipment or your own equipment. And many people work for these companies. Whether these are enforceable or not doesn't matter because a lone developer is not going to go up against an army of corporate lawyers to find out.
      - 3y ago