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>This retroactive stuff is insane and I cannot figure out how a company can make that type of move if they care about their users. If I understand you correctl

>This retroactive stuff is insane and I cannot figure out how a company can make that type of move if they care about their users. If I understand you correctly (I haven't really been following this), they changed the contract and are trying to retroactively collect license fees for installs done prior to the change in contract? I don't think this is legal. When you change a contract, it's on a go forward bases. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. It's definitely a money grab. If it's deemed illegal, i.e. fraud, I hope there is jail time. Gotta send a message. Did Unity recently get acquired, new investors or new management?

awesomeMilou 3y ago
> Did Unity recently get acquired, new investors or new management? EA's former CEO, John Riccitiello took over last year. He inaugurated himself with quite a few statements, one of which was discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32097752 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32097752
- jskherman 3y ago
  When it comes to games it's always EA, isn't it? Isn't this CEO the one also responsible for some of EA's notoriety?
  - Clubber 3y ago
    EA and Activision/Blizzard doesn't have a great track record either. Megacorps are usually bad for everybody except ownership.
  - internet101010 3y ago
    Yes, he is the brain behind the 2013 SimCity disaster.
    - riffraff 3y ago
      Forgive my ignorance, what disaster are you referring to?
      - mikepurvis 3y ago
        It was a very dumbed down attempt to reboot the franchise, when what the fans wanted was what Cities Skylines would later deliver.
        Akronymus 3y ago
        > when what the fans wanted was what Cities Skylines would later deliver. For me personally, C:S goes in too much on building a nice looking city and not enough on the simulation aspect.
        mikepurvis 3y ago
        Fair, but I think SC2013 was all of that and worse (as well as having glitches and being a massively multiplayer always-online affair).
        Akronymus 3y ago
        SC2013 had the horrible "agent" simulation. While I personally wished for more of the sc4 kind of simulation.
  - Angius 3y ago
    Under his rule, lootboxes were added to FIFA. He also famously mused about charging Battlefield players $1 for reloading their weapon, once they're immersed in the game enough to not want to break the flow
- thowfaraway 3y ago
  Riccitiello has been CEO since 2014. There were some good times at the beginning, but things seem to be falling apart.
- callalex 3y ago
  How do these fuckers keep failing up?
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    Because it's a club and you ain't in it
  - Modified3019 3y ago
    Anyone can be a failure, but it takes a lot of work to be a real piece of shit.
gmjosack 3y ago
The terms have been changed so that all future installs can incur a fee even on older games that used unity even if the haven't been updated recently.
- Clubber 3y ago
  >The terms have been changed so that all future installs can incur a fee even on older games that used unity even if the haven't been updated recently. They'll be able to get away with that then, the weasels. Sounds like they are trying to make a golden goose and kill it in one fell swoop. The latest Unreal demos look mighty fine. Sounds like we will be seeing a bunch of games use it in the near future. I wonder if the older engines used by older games have any way to detect installs. I'd hate to see devs who abandoned their projects years ago but are still downloadable somewhere get caught up in this.
marcosdumay 3y ago
It's not fraud. They are not misrepresenting anything, or getting any money that doesn't belong to them. If it's illegal, it will just be invalid. What means that people could just not pay them. There's no jail time coming out of this.
readyplayernull 3y ago
> Did Unity recently get acquired, new investors or new management? Nope. They bought Weta tools and the investment haven't paid out and probably won't be soon if ever, now they are desperate for money.
barkingcat 3y ago
Unity IPO'ed in 2020, which isn't super recent, but is probably the reason behind these changes. IPO'ed means they gotta report some quarterly improvements, every quarter forever under the totally unsustainable growth model.
- gabereiser 3y ago
  Unity went public. Bombed, and merged with IronSource, a notorious malware spam mobile ad company. It’s always about milking their install base. https://blog.unity.com/news/welcome-ironsource https://blog.unity.com/news/welcome-ironsource
whiddershins 3y ago
I have only been generally following this but I don’t think this is quite accurate. It seems more like, starting in 2024 when you get more downloads the fee would be applied. I see people talking here about apps that have a huge user base and a very low price per purchase. I admit that segment didn’t pop into my mind initially. And I see the problem there. I also imagine the Unity execs may have missed that scenario too. From reading all of their public communication, and with just a hint of principle of charity, I suspect they are trying to do this in the most fair minded and developer friendly manner possible. You have to meet both volume and revenue minimums to even be subject to this. All free apps are safe. All non-profits are safe. I think it is good Unity is receiving public feedback. I am sad so many people are jumping to the conclusion this is a corrupt money grab.
- Scramblejams 3y ago
  A public company with veteran leadership does not upend their revenue model without first playing out, in great detail, how it will impact all of their largest users. The segment you mention may not have popped into your mind, but it's certainly been on theirs. This was intentional. What category of game has "a huge user base and a very low price per purchase?" Mobile free-to-play, that's what. How are those games monetized? Frequently with ads. And it's been noted elsewhere that if you use Unity's ad network, you will get a 100% discount on your per-install fees. They knew exactly what they were doing. They merged with an ad company -- they are now an ad company. Their strategy is to make F2P games untenable on Unity if you're not getting advertisements from them.
- larusso 3y ago
  I believe the whole point and plan is that you use the Unity ad network exclusively. My understanding is that you get exempted then. Unity makes the most money with its Ad provider and would love to kill other ad mediation frameworks to get a bigger slice of the pie.
  - rossjudson 3y ago
    I am pretty sure that they can't actually just *say* that. I suspect you are right.

awesomeMilou 3y ago

> Did Unity recently get acquired, new investors or new management? EA's former CEO, John Riccitiello took over last year. He inaugurated himself with quite a few statements, one of which was discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32097752 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32097752

jskherman 3y ago
When it comes to games it's always EA, isn't it? Isn't this CEO the one also responsible for some of EA's notoriety?
- Clubber 3y ago
  EA and Activision/Blizzard doesn't have a great track record either. Megacorps are usually bad for everybody except ownership.
- internet101010 3y ago
  Yes, he is the brain behind the 2013 SimCity disaster.
  - riffraff 3y ago
    Forgive my ignorance, what disaster are you referring to?
    - mikepurvis 3y ago
      It was a very dumbed down attempt to reboot the franchise, when what the fans wanted was what Cities Skylines would later deliver.
      - Akronymus 3y ago
        > when what the fans wanted was what Cities Skylines would later deliver. For me personally, C:S goes in too much on building a nice looking city and not enough on the simulation aspect.
        mikepurvis 3y ago
        Fair, but I think SC2013 was all of that and worse (as well as having glitches and being a massively multiplayer always-online affair).
        Akronymus 3y ago
        SC2013 had the horrible "agent" simulation. While I personally wished for more of the sc4 kind of simulation.
- Angius 3y ago
  Under his rule, lootboxes were added to FIFA. He also famously mused about charging Battlefield players $1 for reloading their weapon, once they're immersed in the game enough to not want to break the flow
thowfaraway 3y ago
Riccitiello has been CEO since 2014. There were some good times at the beginning, but things seem to be falling apart.
callalex 3y ago
How do these fuckers keep failing up?
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  Because it's a club and you ain't in it
- Modified3019 3y ago
  Anyone can be a failure, but it takes a lot of work to be a real piece of shit.

gmjosack 3y ago

The terms have been changed so that all future installs can incur a fee even on older games that used unity even if the haven't been updated recently.

Clubber 3y ago
>The terms have been changed so that all future installs can incur a fee even on older games that used unity even if the haven't been updated recently. They'll be able to get away with that then, the weasels. Sounds like they are trying to make a golden goose and kill it in one fell swoop. The latest Unreal demos look mighty fine. Sounds like we will be seeing a bunch of games use it in the near future. I wonder if the older engines used by older games have any way to detect installs. I'd hate to see devs who abandoned their projects years ago but are still downloadable somewhere get caught up in this.

marcosdumay 3y ago

It's not fraud. They are not misrepresenting anything, or getting any money that doesn't belong to them. If it's illegal, it will just be invalid. What means that people could just not pay them. There's no jail time coming out of this.

readyplayernull 3y ago

> Did Unity recently get acquired, new investors or new management? Nope. They bought Weta tools and the investment haven't paid out and probably won't be soon if ever, now they are desperate for money.

barkingcat 3y ago

Unity IPO'ed in 2020, which isn't super recent, but is probably the reason behind these changes. IPO'ed means they gotta report some quarterly improvements, every quarter forever under the totally unsustainable growth model.

gabereiser 3y ago
Unity went public. Bombed, and merged with IronSource, a notorious malware spam mobile ad company. It’s always about milking their install base. https://blog.unity.com/news/welcome-ironsource https://blog.unity.com/news/welcome-ironsource

whiddershins 3y ago

I have only been generally following this but I don’t think this is quite accurate. It seems more like, starting in 2024 when you get more downloads the fee would be applied. I see people talking here about apps that have a huge user base and a very low price per purchase. I admit that segment didn’t pop into my mind initially. And I see the problem there. I also imagine the Unity execs may have missed that scenario too. From reading all of their public communication, and with just a hint of principle of charity, I suspect they are trying to do this in the most fair minded and developer friendly manner possible. You have to meet both volume and revenue minimums to even be subject to this. All free apps are safe. All non-profits are safe. I think it is good Unity is receiving public feedback. I am sad so many people are jumping to the conclusion this is a corrupt money grab.

Scramblejams 3y ago
A public company with veteran leadership does not upend their revenue model without first playing out, in great detail, how it will impact all of their largest users. The segment you mention may not have popped into your mind, but it's certainly been on theirs. This was intentional. What category of game has "a huge user base and a very low price per purchase?" Mobile free-to-play, that's what. How are those games monetized? Frequently with ads. And it's been noted elsewhere that if you use Unity's ad network, you will get a 100% discount on your per-install fees. They knew exactly what they were doing. They merged with an ad company -- they are now an ad company. Their strategy is to make F2P games untenable on Unity if you're not getting advertisements from them.
larusso 3y ago
I believe the whole point and plan is that you use the Unity ad network exclusively. My understanding is that you get exempted then. Unity makes the most money with its Ad provider and would love to kill other ad mediation frameworks to get a bigger slice of the pie.
- rossjudson 3y ago
  I am pretty sure that they can't actually just *say* that. I suspect you are right.