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Archaeologists discover ancient drawings in a Spanish cave
- wiz21c 3y agoI've looked at the picture but well, I can't see anything. IANAArcheologist :-(
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- hobs 3y agoIt takes a bit of an eye to see them, you have to look for major features first. 1. Look for a triangluar shape that is slightly darker and redder than the rest of the background, in the middle of the frame, the right hand side is not drawn. Congrats, you found the muzzle. 2. Follow the outlines of the darker areas with your eyes. 3. Or just use this https://imgur.com/a/dDpVtDa https://imgur.com/a/dDpVtDa
- aleign 3y agoI skimmed the article and I'm definitely not well-versed in archaeological techniques, so I may just be uneducated here, but I'm wondering: how do they know that is a painting? And not just pareidolia? Maybe the pictures in the article are just poor quality, but I can't really see what they are claiming to see. Even with the outline you gave. It just looks like a few lines that could kind of possibly sort of look like a deer head.
- hobs 3y agoIts a real problem, and often practitioners do see many examples of false faces etc, but the art is usually emblematic and repeated for tens of thousands of years and so dating some of the pieces can even be (hand wavingly) done by including it in a certain time period. Honestly, as soon as I saw the picture (having been to a few of the caves that are dated 30k+) it really is just immediately obvious that it would be included, there's a ton of examples that look almost exactly like it.
- AlotOfReading 3y agoIt's usually easier in person where you can move your head and see the natural color variation of the rock. Plus they'll have sketched this out, looking closely at different areas, and some will be more obvious than others. But yes, it's sometimes difficult and you have to have an eye for it.
- gus_massa 3y agoI'm not sure what they used for painting this, but a few years ago there was a project in the university where high school students came to work in simple projects for a while. One of the projects was to make reproductions of the crayolas used for cave painting. They mixed fat of ñandú (rhea, a local bird similar to ostrich) and iron oxide. The project was to use a spectrometer to measure how different fat, impurities and treatments changed the spectrum, probably to try to discover the original recipe and locals variations. (I don't have more details. Someone told me about this in a hallway conversation.)
- wiz21c 3y agoOh thanks, now I see it (and was miles away of guessing it myself :-))
- eep_social 3y agoThank you for ‘this’. My first reaction was, wow, look at that vivid red! I wonder what kind of material they found to make that — so I’m off to get some more coffee.
- staplung 3y ago“Two years ago, when a team of archaeologists spotted a painting of an extinct wild bull called an auroch” The correct singular form of the word is aurochs. Little surprising Smithsonian magazine got this wrong
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- borbulon 3y agoI am endlessly fascinated by these finds. The more of these sorts of sites we find, the more we learn. They were documenting not just the animals around them, but their breeding seasons, their migrations if any, and probably a dozen other things we haven't even considered.
- lancesells 3y agoAnd if the dates are correct it's pre-civilization, pre-agriculture, and during the ice age. It's incredible to me that the need to create is this old.
- wahnfrieden 3y agoWengrow/Graeber challenge the pre-civ/pre-ag timeline
- ljlolel 3y agoYes. I recommend the Dawn of Everything
- datavirtue 3y agoFelt like I needed to escape that site the second I landed on it.
- java-man 3y agoIt might still be too early to know the age of the drawings (the article estimates "at least 24,000 years old"), but I couldn't help noticing that these drawings are much simpler than much older art in the Chauvet cave (dated to around 30-35 thousand years old) [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauvet_Cave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauvet_Cave
- empath-nirvana 3y agoSeems like there's very little of the drawings left, it might have lost some detail over time.
- kadoban 3y agoI wonder if anything can be done to sense what they used to look like, maybe by scanning for places where residue of clay fell off or was covered over like they mentioned.
- civilitty 3y agoThere is a huge overlap between the later Paleolithic stone industries on the order of tens of thousands of years so it’s safe to assume there was also a significant variation in artistic ability between tribes.
- EatingWithForks 3y agoIt makes sense to me because the article says that they used fingers and clay to make the drawings. The Chauvet cave is regarded as fairly unique in that outlines were scratched out and the cave wall itself was cleared out before starting the artwork.
- java-man 3y agoNot always - many paintings were probably made with fingers using a very advanced technique (shading), see for example, the bear [0]. [0] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/fate-of-the-cave-bear-69538895/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/fate-of-the-cave-bear...
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- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago[flagged]
- ggm 3y agoThere's no compelling evidence painting was exclusively male, there are children's hand prints, and at least half the hand prints are plausibly women's hands and there is other evidence women hunted. Stereotyped roles are a comparatively modern invention set against 5k, 10k, timeframes.
- ck2 3y agofun rabbit hole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_painting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_painting
- RecycledEle 3y agoI looked at the pics in the articles, and I do not see any of the things they say are painted.
- blackoil 3y agoYeah, a red circle would have helped :|
- gus_massa 3y agoI think the first is quite clear. I mande a version in https://imgur.com/a/y1i3Tzv https://imgur.com/a/y1i3Tzv IANAA [1] I'm not sure if the nose is painted or is just a dark spot in the rock that I'm over interpreting. [1] You can interpret is as "I am not an Archeologist" or "I am not an Artist". Both are correct.
- deadalus 3y agoI have never seen a more cute deer. I wish all ancient drawings had such a version so we can easily interpret what they are talking about in the article. Early cave drawings are very hard to decipher.
- marcellus23 3y agoIt's an auroch, not a deer (actually the correct term seems to be "aurochs", but it's not what the article uses): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurochs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurochs
- pvaldes 3y agoclearly a cow, yep. You missed the posterior ear
- gus_massa 3y agoI saw a few of examples in biology. Here I got a random image from Google https://bmcecolevol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-14-126/figures/2 https://bmcecolevol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-... It shows a fossil of an insect in a stone, A and B are photos, C and D are hand drawings that show the important features. I'm not sure if it's common to superimpose the drawings, but in my case I thought it was better.
- fractallyte 3y agoSince most readers will be archaeological lay-people, would it have been so difficult for the article to have at least outlined some of these (supposed) drawings? There is such a thing as pareidolia, the tendency to want to see meaningful imagery in what are just random patterns... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia)
- lokl 3y agoHighly recommend visiting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pech_Merle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pech_Merle if you are interested in cave paintings. Easy to access if you stay in Cahors the night before.
- tejtm 3y agoI wonder if they will find more evidence of the lunar dot motif https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cave+painting+lunar+dots+animal+fertility&t=lm&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cave+painting+lunar+dots+animal+fe...