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Why has a useless cold medication been allowed on shelves for years?
- nsxwolf 3y agoCough medicines don't work either. Expectorants don't expectorate, suppressants don't suppress. (Why they're both sometimes in the same bottle is beyond me, but they don't do anything, anyway)
- namdnay 3y agohaha come to france, and weep at the shelves and shelves of homeopathic remedies on offer at every pharmacy
- sbelskie 3y agoThis is the same in the US.
- mc32 3y agoOr Whole Foods in the US where aspirins are hidden somewhere and all you do have is this expensive homeopathic stuff on the shelves…
- phh 3y ago(As a french) I argue that it's better for physicians to have a way out to not give anything active to the patient who is adament they need a drug for their flu to be over faster. Also, placebo effect do work.
- beebmam 3y agoStuff like this is why people are losing trust in medicine.
- master-lincoln 3y agoOh, so then you are ok with those companies offering those placebos for immense prices and the insurance (aka the people) paying for that? You could just give some natural products as placebos that are not hurting trust in medicine by legitimizing quackery.
- phh 3y ago> Oh, so then you are ok with those companies offering those placebos for immense prices and the insurance (aka the people) paying for that? The price isn't immense though... We're speaking of like 3€ for a month of "treatment". I would definitely rather the state to pocket that money but for the placebo to work you need a bit of marketing, so I don't really know what's the best way. > You could just give some natural products as placebos that are not hurting trust in medicine by legitimizing quackery. homeopathics are completely natural products, since it's literally sugar...?
- reedf1 3y agoDoctors are just people, they are not gods. It is actually possible self-perscribe if you are well informed.
- pella 3y agoYES .. Genetic tests can predict when placebos may be the best medicine https://www.cell.com/trends/molecular-medicine/fulltext/S1471-4914(15)00043-X https://www.cell.com/trends/molecular-medicine/fulltext/S147... "Highlights •Predisposition to respond to placebo treatment may be in part a stable heritable trait. • Candidate placebo response pathways may interact with drugs to modify outcomes in both the placebo and drug treatment arms of clinical trials. • Genomic analysis of randomized placebo and no-treatment controlled trials are needed to fully realize the potential of the placebome."
- secretsatan 3y agoStrongly disagree, especially when they make a profit upselling me some useless placebo, if you can't fix it, don't sell me something that doesn't work, it should be fraud.
- inkcapmushroom 3y agoHere in the US I got pretty upset the other day when I got an ear infection and went to the pharmacy, and all of the ear drops they had were homeopathic. Even the CVS brand medicines were homeopathic, labeled along the bottom edge of the box where you had to pick it up off the shelf to even see that.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoIs there a non prescription ear drop that would help resolve an infection?
- MattGaiser 3y agoDoesn't polysporin have actual antibiotics?
- inkcapmushroom 3y agoI'm not sure. But I would at least like to trust that, if there is one being sold on the pharmacy shelves as helping an ear infection, that it isn't just water.
- jerf 3y agoOh, it's even better than that. "Homeopathic", being unregulated, has gotten itself slapped on all sorts of things... some of which work fine! They're labelled homeopathic, but have meaningful quantities of active ingredients. Which makes them bad "homeopathic" remedies, but good remedies overall. And probably contributes further to the confusion that homeopathy makes any sense. Example, I was once given some "homeopathic menthol cough drops". They worked fine, because they contained the same amount of menthol as any other cough drops. Just as labeling something homeopathic doesn't make it work, it doesn't make it not work either. I imagine there must be message boards out there where "real" homeopaths rant at length about the difficulty of getting homeopathic remedies nowadays because there are so many things falsely labelled as homeopathic.
- MattGaiser 3y agoWhy I find the anger about this drug to be a bit overdone. All sorts of "remedies" that don't pretend to have a scientific basis and have never worked in any context, unlike phenylephrine, which does work when sprayed in the nose, are sold in pharmacies. I had a pharmacist recommend diluted ground up bees for an eye infection.
- bugglebeetle 3y agoAnother lovely legacy of fascism in Europe. The popularity of homeopathic remedies is a hangover from Nazis adopting and promoting them as an alternative to the “abstraction” of “Jewish” medicine. https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/standing-up-for-the-truth-about-homeopathy-and-nazi-medicine-1.2138835 https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/standing-up-for-the...
- pclmulqdq 3y agoPseudoephedrine is another victim of the "war on drugs." It works really well as a decongestant, but purchases are tracked, pills are expensive, and you can't keep a stockpile like you might for some other medicine.
- sbelskie 3y agoI get the expense and tracking argument but not the stockpiling one. You can buy 3.6 grams in a day and 9 grams per month. Are there stricter state level laws or pharmacy policies that I’m unaware of? 9 grams is like 75 120mg 12-hour pills. How much pseudoephedrine are people using?
- BenjiWiebe 3y agoIf you are purchasing for a family of 6 that all get colds within a short timeframe the limit can get annoying. Well actually it's the per-visit limit. You can only buy like two boxes at one time even though you can come back the next day and buy some more.
- jmbwell 3y agoYeah, I don't quite get the outrage at this particular useless thing being on store shelves, among so many other useless things. The outrage should be that anyone who wants the safe and effective option is treated as a potential meth manufacturer.
- justrealist 3y agoThe problem is that the names are very similar and most consumers are confused about which is which. Most consumers don't know to go to the pharmacy and ask, because there's something claiming to be effective on the shelf.
- fluidcruft 3y agoBasically, it's snake oil. These companies are taking people's money by selling drugs that do not work using false promises. The FDA is was established to combat this sort of scam, but somehow FDA seems to have allowed these companies to legally market this useless crap without actually confirming effectiveness. Sure, there were reasons to make it more difficult to obtain a certain type of drug. Fine. There are obviously economic effects of these regulations on the manufacturers. Somehow these companies found a loophole to fill the gap by making it easy to buy useless bullshit. This is massive egg on the FDA's face and I'm really curious how this happened and what's going to be done to prevent it happening again.
- Sargos 3y agoIt's time to put Pseudoephedrine back on store shelves and end the silly behind the counter failed war on drugs experiment. This result forces everyone to confront that reality which damages egos and pride so it will be resisted but I'm glad science is finally winning out over hysteria.
- ravenstine 3y agoYou can still get it in the United States if you ask the pharmacist. But otherwise, yeah, it should just be on the shelf instead of behind the counter.
- MattGaiser 3y agoYou can get it in the USA if you show ID and ask the pharmacist.
- tyree731 3y agoYou're limited in the amount you can purchase at any given time, and it's (for me at least) often not available in the form I want it in, making it a real pain in the ass to rely on.
- nekoashide 3y agoThere's a very good reason it's behind the counter. I'm not talking about the people who need it as cold medicine, it's the people who buy it to make drugs and get high. Before it was placed behind the counter you couldn't even find it on shelves due to the amount of theft.
- patchtopic 3y agowith the chemists selling useless cold medicine but the streets EVEN MORE full of meth-heads than before, obviously this particular "war on (some) drugs" measure is a pathetic failure.
- felixgallo 3y ago
- tahoeskibum 3y agoIt is simple: the original ingredient pseudoephedrine was put behind counter as it can be used for meth production. The replacement phenylephedrine is just not effective, something I've known for years (so I always go behind the counter).
- shipmaker 3y ago[flagged]
- jagraff 3y agoYou don't "need" any medication for most colds. But people want (and deserve access to) cold medication that treats the symptoms that they find unpleasant. Also, some people are prone to sinus infections - taking pseudoephedrine when you start getting congested (before developing a sinus infection) is crucial to preventing infection and avoiding damage to your nasal passages.
- shipmaker 3y agoI am one of those people and I have visited many specialized doctors and not a single one prescribed pseudoephedrine, but I guess you know better
- jagraff 3y agoI have visited doctors that have prescribed it. Your anecdote isn't any better than mine, but IMO it's an almost literal life-saver. Maybe you should try it instead of laughing at those who find it effective.
- 39 3y agoI'd say it's pretty common knowledge that pseudoephedrine makes symptoms MUCH more bearable. Power through if that's your game, but the rest of us prefer relief.
- seattle_spring 3y agoOf all the topics to choose to be elitist and condescending... why choose this one? You aren't even sharing correct information. "My anecdote is more valuable than all scientific literature. Dumb Americans!"
- orev 3y agoOne could make the same argument for anything really, but it has nothing to do with why this particular drug that’s completely ineffective is being sold. And just because you’ve never experienced an extreme case of rhinorrhea doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It sounds like you’re more interested in painting Americans as whiny babies who can’t handle a little cold instead of discussing the actual topic. Also, paracetamol is toxic to your liver so it should be avoided unless really needed.
- isthisvalid4 3y ago[flagged]
- amluto 3y agoPerhaps all the homeopathic cold “remedies” sold right next to the phenylephrine should be removed from the shelves too.
- EMM_386 3y agoIt's absurd how pseudoephedrine gets put behind the counter, and then Sudafed launches a new brand, "Sudafed PE". Obviously meant to confuse people, because that looks an awful lot like it would contain pseudoephedrine. But the "PE" now stands for the useless "phenylephrine".
- rocmcd 3y agoI always thought the "PE" was for Placebo Effect which would explain why it never does anything.
- warrenmiller 3y agohttps://archive.ph/OoudK https://archive.ph/OoudK
- cvccvroomvroom 3y agoWhy is this a surprise? CBD creams, copper bracelets, Kinesio tape, and thousands of "reinvigorating, youth restoring" cosmetic products are sold in American pharmacies (hypermarts). There is no meaningful difference between products regulated as drugs and those considered supplements or health/wellness when they make false claims.
- jollyllama 3y agoI'm just shocked that people kept buying it. Ever since the real thing got moved behind the counter, that's where I go. The sad thing is, they don't even make real Nyquil anymore. Gradually, stores quit selling it; Walgreens was the last to stop carrying their generic Nyquil with pseudoephedrine a couple of years ago. It was to the point where most clerks didn't even know they had it.
- fellowmartian 3y agoOxymetazoline works great for short-term relief (like 2-3 days), so I'm honestly not sure why people are so bent on wanting to use controlled substances for very common ailments.
- hamilyon2 3y agoWhen I moved to France I was very surprised to know that oxymetazoline is prescription drug here. It is routinely prescribed to children and available over the counter where I am from.
- merricksb 3y agoPreviously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37499106 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37499106 – The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)/ 226 points/21 hours ago/323 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37485940 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37485940 – Phenylephrine for colds and allergies don’t work, FDA panel says/57 points/1 day ago/37 comments
- txusrose 3y agoNot sure how the conversation went from the drug they want to remove Phenylephrine (as being ineffective,) to pseudoephedrine, (the one used as an ingredient for making meth.) But, I know for a fact that Benadryl does work for allergies. I did an online search at Walmart for the drugs they sell that have the ingredient they say doesn’t work—Phenylephrine. https://www.walmart.com/search?q=phenylephrine&page=3&affinityOverride=store_led https://www.walmart.com/search?q=phenylephrine&page=3&affini...
- dpifke 3y agoSince in a lot of places, meth is easier than pseudoephedrine to obtain, the solution is to simply to go in the other direction and synthesize the latter from the former: https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pseudoephedrine.pdf https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pse... [PDF]
- daniel-cussen 3y ago[dead]
- P_I_Staker 3y agoSerious question: What is the point of banning ephedrine at this point? There's a good chance it's WORSE for public health... I guess it does push the meth labs to mexico? That's not really how it was sold: Have mexico make more dangerous meth in bulk using industrial chemicals, while shutting down small labs in the US, and causing plummeting prices. It may be controversial whether ephedrine based meth is any less harmful, but I think there's enough to suspect it. It's just theater. In the best case they're equally bad, but it's still pointless.
- fragmede 3y agoHave prices actually plummeted, or are we just funneling thatthe much more money to the cartels? Because I don't remember prices falling at the super market, I can't imagine the black market is any different.
- P_I_Staker 3y agoAt some point it did. I'm not saying currently, but when mega labs came on the scene, I guess it did. Of course, as a non-meth user and non-expert (although I wouldn't trust "experts" on drugs) I'm not sure, but somewhere in the 90s to early 2000s, they really figured out how to flood the market.