8 ms·
The rewrite was definitely influenced by the mandatory migration from kernel extensions to userspace System Extensions, specifically NetworkExtension, between C
by nhubbard 3y ago
The rewrite was definitely influenced by the mandatory migration from kernel extensions to userspace System Extensions, specifically NetworkExtension, between Catalina and Big Sur: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/networkextension https://developer.apple.com/documentation/networkextension
- hulitu 3y agoOne would expect they have a test suite.
- dclowd9901 3y agoOh you poor sweet summer child
- londons_explore 3y agoOne would suspect their test suite is lacking...
- MichaelZuo 3y agoThere are a lot of errors and faults that show up in Console on a brand new MacBook just sitting on the desktop. And with every version the number seems to increase. So it's not even their test suite that's the issue.
- dmix 3y agoI'm curious, why do you look at random OS errors in Console to the point you noticed such a thing?
- MichaelZuo 3y agoWhen my computer can't even stay up for a full week without crashing, or suffer an inexplicable lag spike, etc., I become more motivated to closely examine everything to see what's causing the crash.
- callalex 3y agoAre you plugging/unplugging monitors or other hardware? With macs it’s always that for some reason.
- MichaelZuo 3y agoNo, literally just sitting there with no peripherals attached, doing nothing more complex then playing a 4k video and web browsing.
- astrange 3y agoFile a bug in Feedback Assistant, if you want.
- MichaelZuo 3y agoOkay, so?
- Moomoomoo309 3y agoIf there's an issue, how are they supposed to know about it? Via osmosis? Even if they should have found it earlier, they didn't, so now what? You should tell them, so they can fix it.
- MichaelZuo 3y agoYes, but what is the point adding to this comment chain? Just saying random things in response to a comment is not the typical HN norm.
- astrange 3y agoWell, you're the one with the bug. It'd be weird to reply to someone who isn't experiencing one.
- eptcyka 3y agoFor me, it's a benchmark of a well made system - the lower bandwidth of log output you get when a user machine is idling, the better. I have seen some Android phones produce megabytes of logs just sitting there - you can test this by running `<whatever command outputs logs> | pv`. It's also a good metric to signal an anomaly after a deployment. On my desktop machines, the current culprit for most of the logs is pipewire/alsa, generating multiple lines per second.
- MichaelZuo 3y agoThis, plus on MacOS 'faults' specifically indicate events where the computer could not gracefully recover, so some user noticeable thing happened. e.g. when the WiFi adaptor faults and has to restart.
- astrange 3y agoNo, it's just the highest severity log and stays archived the longest. (And records a backtrace.) It doesn't mean anything besides that though.
- MichaelZuo 3y agoSource? Maybe in some scenarios it shows a fault that is absolutely unnoticeable, but every real world case I've seen was at least theoretically noticeable by the user.
- nemo 3y agoMy system's running fine with no noticeable issues. I opened Console to check for faults and after running with logging on I eventually got a couple, all tied to Safari trying to read a preference from a domain it didn't have permissions to. No performance issues or other user-detectable impacts.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago'Safari trying to read a preference from a domain it didn't have permissions to.' That doesn't sound like normal behaviour, what's the domain?
- _jal 3y agoSome of us who came up on the ops side routinely check logs. It is both how you spot problems other monitors might miss and partly how you learn how your system works (or doesn't). Especially with MacOS, where the documentation quality ranges from shit to nonexistent and the source is unavailable.
- ls612 3y agoIs the log clarity on macOS better than the mess that is the Event Log in windows?
- newaccount74 3y ago"Clarity" is not a word I would use to describe the macOS logs. The number of log entries shown in the console is overwhelming. All the background services constantly log ~100 messages per second, so the log entries you are looking for disappear immediately. You can use the search filters to narrow down messages if you know what you are looking for, but if you don't already have a suspicion where the problem is coming from, then the macOS logs are close to useless.
- nvy 3y agoYou mean from dmesg or something? Not once have I opened console.app and seen random OS errors just sitting at the shell prompt. edit: derp I confused console/terminal please disregard
- tambourine_man 3y agoApple made logging “cheap” in Mavericks, IIRC. They made a big deal that by coalescing and compressing writes, using a database instead of flat text files, it would use little memory and battery, or something like that. Anyway, Console.app got way more verbose after that. I don’t like it, it’s too noise for me, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that lots of things are breaking under the hood.
- newaccount74 3y agoThey added a way to efficiently generate hundreds of log messages per second, but never bothered to think about what to do with all these messages.
- lIIllIIllIIllII 3y agoFor a firewall I'd ideally want some degree of formal verification. It's not something you fuck around with if you're serious about creating a secure product - like an operating system.
- thghtihadanacct 3y ago[flagged]
- rcme 3y agoBut how do you verify the formal verification?
- mejutoco 3y agoProving in Math that the building blocks have certain properties.
- tialaramex 3y agoWhile this is worthwhile, there is an opportunity for the math to violate your assumptions in a way you didn't understand. Let's talk briefly about TLS 1.3 Selfie attacks. TLS 1.3 is the first TLS in which experts built a formally verified model of the protocol before they shipped the standard. There are models of earlier TLS versions, but nothing learned from them could be incorporated into the corresponding standard because they were an afterthought - like writing unit tests after shipping version 1.0 TLS 1.3 has a mode intended for applications where some nodes which have a pre-existing relationship communicate, in this case we don't need the Web PKI ("SSL certificates") instead we use Pre-shared Keys (PSKs) - that is all the parties know the keys anyway, which clearly couldn't work for the open web but is fine for my boiler and its remote thermostat since duh, I don't want some random other person's thermostat talking to my boiler. PSKs are also used when you connect to the same server again later, but that doesn't matter here. The mathematical proof seemed to say exactly what the designers wanted, and it passed. So TLS 1.3 is exactly what we wanted... right? Well, almost. Designers were thinking of symmetries like "Alice talks to Bob" and "Bob talks to Alice" as one conversation, but the proof thinks that's two conversations. So the proof thinks Alice and Bob need two keys, the Alice->Bob key and the Bob->Alice key, while humans assumed they only need a single key, an Alice-x-Bob key. And so the RFC documents (prior to errata) the human assumption but the protocol actually requires the machine assumption. The result is the Selfie Attack. In our scenario Alice, and Bob have a Cat. The Cat, like many cats, would like more food, but Alice and Bob use a secure protocol to ensure they only feed the cat once. Bob has fed the cat and left. The cat is sat by an empty food bowl looking plaintive. Alice sends Bob an encrypted message, "Did you feed the cat?". The Cat intercepts the message, it doesn't have the Alice-x-Bob key so it can't decrypt this message nor directly answer it, but it doesn't need to. The Cat simply sends Alice's own message back to her. Receiving a message encrypted with the Alice-x-Bob key, Alice concludes it's from Bob. "Did you feed the cat?". So she replies "No, I did not feed the cat". The cat receives this message too, and directs it back to Alice as well, now Alice has what appears to be a reply to her first question, "No, I did not feed the cat" encrypted with the Alice-x-Bob key. So, Alice feeds the cat again because the cat was able to trick her into answering her own question.
- skhr0680 3y agofrom my past experience with Mac OS, the users of the .0 version are the test suite
- rjzzleep 3y agoI think this pretty accurate. After messing around with the .0 versions of macOS a few times I also learned that the common wisdom is to only install OS updates on .1 versions.
- detourdog 3y agoIt has been true since the NeXT days. .3 is for speed. Anything above .3 is a usually a bug fix.