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Indeed. I've known that phenylepherine is worthless for a long while, and just make it a point to buy a pack of the real stuff every 6 months or so, so that I a
by cheald 3y ago
Indeed. I've known that phenylepherine is worthless for a long while, and just make it a point to buy a pack of the real stuff every 6 months or so, so that I always have it on hand when I need it. In my state, it's controlled - you have to get it from a pharmacist (though you can do so without a prescription) - they take your driver's license and don't allow you to purchase it too often.
- anamexis 3y agoThat is a US federal law (the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005)
- jimmaswell 3y agoAnd now we've got a fentanyl epidemic filling the void and even more power handed to Mexican cartels since meth got harder to produce domestically. Drugs continue to win the war on drugs.
- akira2501 3y agoYou can't fight a war against inanimate objects. You can fight a war against drug addicts. You cannot possibly win a war against drug addicts without addressing the fundamental problem.
- JoeAltmaier 3y agoMost of us cannot make these drugs ourselves. To restrict them effectively would certainly curtail their abuse?
- akira2501 3y agoThe presumption here is that an addict, unable to get their "favorite" drug, will now just stop doing drugs entirely. This is not the case. Drugs can also be stolen, from homes, and from pharmacies, and from ambulances. There are way more vectors than people care to ponder. If you've ever had an addict in your life, you're forced to.
- salawat 3y agoIn other news, the bureau of labor reports that the number of unemployed chemists have skyrocketed, and lab equipment manufacturers are reporting a surprise bump in sales. If the mountain will not go to...
- 01100011 3y agoShake-n-bake meth was relatively easy to do for the average methhead. Also, do not underestimate the capabilities of a meth user when they get fixated on something.
- lazide 3y agoBonus - meth causes among other things incredible focus.
- paiute 3y agoI’ve noticed the comments on hn become more meth curious over the last couple of years… I know the state of CO has been pressuring doctors not to prescribe aderall. Mine got taken away because i only took it when i needed to force myself to really work (a few times a month). Now i use pseudoephedrine.
- wutwutwat 3y agoDoctors handed out oxy like candy and when people couldn’t get scripts they turned to H on the street Teachers push any kid that can’t sit still while being bored for hours to be taken to the doctor for adhd, where they are quickly prescribed amphetamine salts. What do you think they will hit the streets for if their addy script ever gets cut off, or, there’s a shortage of supply? (happened recently). Methamphetamine. Many people use small doses of meth the same way they would take a daily dose of adderall. You can actually be prescribed literally methamphetamine. Not amphetamine, methamphetamine. It’s rare, but it exists.
- MockObject 3y agoHard drugs have been illegal in America for generations, and yet every city has had a junkie community all this time. How much more failure must we entertain?
- fragmede 3y agoVice or someone reports that you can make the new formulation, in a backpack, in a Walmart bathroom, with supplies you haven't even bought yet. Given that, and, well, the Internet, I'm sure making it isn't hard for an addict to learn how to make these drugs, even though it's not common knowledge and you and I can't do it.
- p_j_w 3y ago"We just need to wage the war on drugs harder, then it will surely work."
- KerrAvon 3y agoIt turns out it's not possible to do that. We've been trying since the 1960's.
- lazide 3y agoLonger than that if you count one of the OG drugs - Alcohol
- underlipton 3y agoThe "fundamental problem" is the breakdown of community (drug abuse being primarily being a function of the existence or lack of interpersonal involvement and responsibilities that would preclude spending time and money on them). People who are comfortable huddling in their cars, homes, and exclusive social clubs, and who would rather spend money on cops rather than social programs, aren't going to like the fix for that.
- ohthehugemanate 3y agoDo you have a source for this? > drug abuse being primarily being a function of the existence or lack of interpersonal involvement and responsibilities that would preclude spending time and money on them AFAIK there have always been addicts in every culture. Alcohol, various drugs, and strongly self destructive behaviors are not recent additions to the human experience. But I don't know any if the numbers or the research on this root cause you mention.
- post_below 3y agoI suspect they're referring to experiments like the famous "Rat Park". There is clearly a strong social and environmental component to addiction susceptibility, at least in rats. I don't know if I'd go as far as to say it's the fundamental problem, but definitely a major factor.
- jasonfarnon 3y ago"AFAIK there have always been addicts in every culture." Surely you would agree that there the proportion of addicts varies by culture and society, that the US for example has a much higher proportion than many poorer nations? I don't know about the first comment's claim that lack of interpersonal relationship is the root cause, but a strong social component looks obvious to me.
- lazide 3y agoCite? Every nation has an underbelly. Poorer nations, those folks tend to die pretty fast though.
- CoastalCoder 3y agoUntil the past few years, I held a similar view. I.e., if we could just dry up the demand for the product, the rest of the system would crumble. Then the whole Sackler / Oxycontin thing came to light. And I saw (well, second hand) a normal person get hooked on pain meds after back surgery, thanks to those assholes. And they're not in prison. That's when I concluded that we lack the collective will to take the necessary steps to fully stop the trade of addictive drugs.
- AtlasBarfed 3y agoThe problem with decriminalization/legalization is that those are the most abused drugs. However, our drug war is causing Mexico to descend in to anarchy and people are dying by the thousands, or living in total fear of cartels that we trained in the School of the Americas. Thus, I conclude we have to decriminalize and treat our addicts. Enforcement is not working. If we had a sane drug policy 30-40 years ago, Mexico might be a healthy vibrant trading partner.
- cyberax 3y agoMeth is not harder to produce. It's now mass-produced from P2P, with chiral purification using various methods (like pulling one enantiomer with tartaric acid).
- tptacek 3y agoYes. But now it's produced in para-industrial labs, mostly in other countries, rather than in apartments and back yards, where those ad hoc labs were actually real public safety problems.
- AnthonyMouse 3y agoIsn't increased financing of major drug cartels a serious public safety problem? Weren't most pseudoephedrine-to-meth operations in rural areas or otherwise situated away from the general public to avoid detection?
- lazide 3y agoWas Al Capone a public menace, or a businessman saving countless thousands from methanol poisoning and distilling accidents? Plenty of these stories documented either way: https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/pittsburgh/news/police-erie-boy-3-severely-burned-when-1-pot-meth-lab-explodes/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/pittsburgh/news/police-erie-boy-...
- AnthonyMouse 3y agoPor que no los dos? But any "benefit" of the likes of Al Capone ended with prohibition, i.e. the thing forcing the alternatives to be methanol poisoning or mob hits. And you wouldn't need to check ID to rate limit cold medicine if you would just check ID to rate limit what people make out of it.
- bee_rider 3y agoI wonder if the users are sad to miss out on the artisanal small-batch experience.
- supportengineer 3y agoI would like to see “taxes” be the winner of the war on drugs
- LordDragonfang 3y agoIt's worse than that, because it's not actually a void that's being filled - meth production simply switched to a different pathway that's even more effective and potent. There's actually more meth than there was before the ban. https://dynomight.net/p2p-meth/ https://dynomight.net/p2p-meth/ "The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it"
- jimmaswell 3y agoReally, I'd read somewhere (might have been browsing the subreddit out of curiosity a while ago) that the meth was much worse now that they had to switch to a process that results in more chiral junk. Interesting.
- LordDragonfang 3y agoIt was, briefly, and then they figured out how to purify it I guess?
- elgenie 3y agoDrugs winning the “war on drugs” would be a problem for the “war on drugs” only if reducing drug use had actually been a priority of the “war on drugs” at any time in its half century of existence.
- notadoc 3y agoThe majority of fentanyl is produced by a handful of labs in China. If the USA were serious about stopping the fentanyl overdose problem, it could be done with political pressure. Ask yourself why that isn't happening?
- nonethewiser 3y agoYou can buy 6 boxes of sudafed per month (24 doses each). Isn’t that more than the recommended (and probably safe) daily limit? I dont doubt your intentions but I don’t think you actually need 6 boxes per month + a stash.
- PixyMisa 3y agoThey mention one box every six months, which is entirely reasonable.
- criddell 3y agoFor an individual, perhaps. But if your house has a lot of people in it who get sick at the same time because they live in close quarters, then maybe not.
- 13of40 3y agoNot sure how widespread it is or if there's a federal limit, but my state (Washington) even makes it illegal to possess more than 15 grams of it.
- dmazzoni 3y agoIf my math is correct, 15 grams would mean more than 20 normal boxes of Sudafed, if each box is 24x 30mg. I usually buy boxes of 48x 30mg, but even then I'd have to stash 10 boxes for it to be illegal.
- nonethewiser 3y agoWhich is 2 boxes * n years + 6 boxes available at any given time. Im not saying it’s unreasonable, just that the monthly limit is probably higher than he realized and he doesnt need to stockpile them.
- cheald 3y agoThe point is more to not be in a position to have to go out and buy some when I'm feeling cruddy. Since it's controlled, I can't just have some shipped to my door when I'm laying in bed sick. I just got in the habit of picking it up periodically to ensure that it's on hand when I need it.
- secretsatan 3y agoAt least here in Switzerland, it's available over the counter, you get quizzed by the pharmacist to check if your symptoms are worth it or not, but no id or any registration required. Actually, coming from the UK I was surprised I had to go through this, but now I realise I was previously buying the ineffective stuff, I was also surprised by the very, very mild buzz the swiss stuff gave me.