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I think it's well established by now that, much like the crackpot theories surrounding 5G, all the conspiracy theories surrounding Covid shots have been thoroug

by rewmie 3y ago

I think it's well established by now that, much like the crackpot theories surrounding 5G, all the conspiracy theories surrounding Covid shots have been thoroughly debunked. With this in mind, why is a basic public health policy still a controversial subject?

colordrops 3y ago
Is it though? While we are just making sweeping statements without much in the way of references, I heard a doctor on NPR this morning saying that it won't have much benefit for people who are healthy and have immunity from previous infections and immunizations. So NPR and their guests are on the crackpot anti-vaxx bandwagon now?
- monsecchris 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    I’m trying to find the source for this comment and I’m coming up empty.
- rewmie 3y ago
  [flagged]
- ithkuil 3y ago
  > it won't have much benefit for people who are healthy and have immunity from previous This doesn't mean it's harmful does it? That said I wonder what the public health officials are trying to achieve here. Are they trying to encourage the largest number of people to be vaccinated, in the hole of slowing down the transmission? Or are they trying to just use a non-nuanced language ("everyone") in order to convey authority and avoid accidentally seeding doubt? Because if it's the latter, I don't think that works with the present generation. The more you push things the less people trust you. I guess things were different 80 years ago or so, but today people have lost trust in buricracy and totally trust the first lunatic they can find online. Is it hopeless?
  - rewmie 3y ago
    > This doesn't mean it's harmful does it? Do you actually have any concrete evidence suggesting any specific vaccine is harmful? We're a few years in the covid pandemic. There should be real-world data by now that supports your claims. Where is it?
    - ithkuil 3y ago
      Just for clarity I didn't say it's harmful. Quite the contrary. I was replying to a claim where a doctor said that it didn't benefit _much_ to people who are healthy and had already had COVID in the past. I think that quote was taken to imply that the doctor said these people should not be vaccinated. I said that that one doctor didn't actually say that the vaccine was harmful.
    - Grum9 3y ago
      [dead]
  - fileeditview 3y ago
    There is no effect without side effect in meds. If you don't need a med you should not take it because if it is not beneficial for you, only potential harm remains. So as usual advising everyone to take a med is just plain stupid or even worse. And doubting officials doesn't make you a lunatic. There are plenty examples where the official standing was just plain bullshit to put it mildly.
    - basch 3y ago
      is not beneficial =/= need
      - fileeditview 3y ago
        I think you got the meaning of what I was saying. No point in pedantry about words. To be clear: here not needing means that it won't be beneficial in a meaningful way.
- boppo1 3y ago
  What show/doctor?
  - colordrops 3y ago
    Dr. John Moore on All Things Considered. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/09/11/1198719166/new-covid-vaccines-get-fda-approval https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/09/11/1198719...
janalsncm 3y ago
By this point everyone who got the covid shots were supposed to be dead I thought. It’s weird that it didn’t pan out that way, usually the tin foil hats are reliable.
- mikecoles 3y ago
  By this point everyone who did NOT get the covid shots were supposed to be dead. It's weird that it didn't pan out that way.
  - rewmie 3y ago
    > By this point everyone who did NOT get the covid shots were supposed to be dead. I have to call bullshit on your revisionism. From the very first day, covid vaccines were presented as a way to give your immune system a workout so that the risk of subsequent covid infections being serious or fatal would be far lower. Covid itself, without a vaccine, was already expected to have an absolute fatality rate of around 3%, which was weighted heavily by vulnerable cohorts like those over 40 and with preexisting conditions. Those who took the vaccine and were subsequently infected would either experience no COVID symptom at all or only experience mild cases, which contrasts with the huge surge of COVID cases that clogged intensive care units of basically all public healthcare systems in the world. It's high time that antivaxxers and COVID denialists go through a moment of reflection and introspection to look at all the bullshit they've been peddling. If you feel the need to lie and misrepresent and take the revisionist approach to the COVID pandemic, that already tells you that you have a hard time facing reality.
    - mikecoles 3y ago
      Your bullshit detector is broken from being overloaded with your lies. The clogged ERs were from people being lied to about how dangerous COVID was. Simple cold, gotta get to the hospital. It's high time fear mongers go through a moment of reflection and introspection to look at all the bullshit they've been peddling. Get help, bud. Your world view is an illusions you bought into.
  - 3y ago

by rewmie 3y ago

colordrops 3y ago

Is it though? While we are just making sweeping statements without much in the way of references, I heard a doctor on NPR this morning saying that it won't have much benefit for people who are healthy and have immunity from previous infections and immunizations. So NPR and their guests are on the crackpot anti-vaxx bandwagon now?

monsecchris 3y ago
[flagged]
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  I’m trying to find the source for this comment and I’m coming up empty.
rewmie 3y ago
[flagged]
ithkuil 3y ago
> it won't have much benefit for people who are healthy and have immunity from previous This doesn't mean it's harmful does it? That said I wonder what the public health officials are trying to achieve here. Are they trying to encourage the largest number of people to be vaccinated, in the hole of slowing down the transmission? Or are they trying to just use a non-nuanced language ("everyone") in order to convey authority and avoid accidentally seeding doubt? Because if it's the latter, I don't think that works with the present generation. The more you push things the less people trust you. I guess things were different 80 years ago or so, but today people have lost trust in buricracy and totally trust the first lunatic they can find online. Is it hopeless?
- rewmie 3y ago
  > This doesn't mean it's harmful does it? Do you actually have any concrete evidence suggesting any specific vaccine is harmful? We're a few years in the covid pandemic. There should be real-world data by now that supports your claims. Where is it?
  - ithkuil 3y ago
    Just for clarity I didn't say it's harmful. Quite the contrary. I was replying to a claim where a doctor said that it didn't benefit _much_ to people who are healthy and had already had COVID in the past. I think that quote was taken to imply that the doctor said these people should not be vaccinated. I said that that one doctor didn't actually say that the vaccine was harmful.
  - Grum9 3y ago
    [dead]
- fileeditview 3y ago
  There is no effect without side effect in meds. If you don't need a med you should not take it because if it is not beneficial for you, only potential harm remains. So as usual advising everyone to take a med is just plain stupid or even worse. And doubting officials doesn't make you a lunatic. There are plenty examples where the official standing was just plain bullshit to put it mildly.
  - basch 3y ago
    is not beneficial =/= need
    - fileeditview 3y ago
      I think you got the meaning of what I was saying. No point in pedantry about words. To be clear: here not needing means that it won't be beneficial in a meaningful way.
boppo1 3y ago
What show/doctor?
- colordrops 3y ago
  Dr. John Moore on All Things Considered. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/09/11/1198719166/new-covid-vaccines-get-fda-approval https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/09/11/1198719...

janalsncm 3y ago

By this point everyone who got the covid shots were supposed to be dead I thought. It’s weird that it didn’t pan out that way, usually the tin foil hats are reliable.

mikecoles 3y ago
By this point everyone who did NOT get the covid shots were supposed to be dead. It's weird that it didn't pan out that way.
- rewmie 3y ago
  > By this point everyone who did NOT get the covid shots were supposed to be dead. I have to call bullshit on your revisionism. From the very first day, covid vaccines were presented as a way to give your immune system a workout so that the risk of subsequent covid infections being serious or fatal would be far lower. Covid itself, without a vaccine, was already expected to have an absolute fatality rate of around 3%, which was weighted heavily by vulnerable cohorts like those over 40 and with preexisting conditions. Those who took the vaccine and were subsequently infected would either experience no COVID symptom at all or only experience mild cases, which contrasts with the huge surge of COVID cases that clogged intensive care units of basically all public healthcare systems in the world. It's high time that antivaxxers and COVID denialists go through a moment of reflection and introspection to look at all the bullshit they've been peddling. If you feel the need to lie and misrepresent and take the revisionist approach to the COVID pandemic, that already tells you that you have a hard time facing reality.
  - mikecoles 3y ago
    Your bullshit detector is broken from being overloaded with your lies. The clogged ERs were from people being lied to about how dangerous COVID was. Simple cold, gotta get to the hospital. It's high time fear mongers go through a moment of reflection and introspection to look at all the bullshit they've been peddling. Get help, bud. Your world view is an illusions you bought into.
- 3y ago