12 ms·

How is it usable if it is insecure? People bank on these things.

by FredPret 3y ago

londons_explore 3y ago
[flagged]
- frumper 3y ago
  I've had multiple family members wait months to sort things out like that. Visa fraud experience is usually immediate, checking/savings accounts not so much.
- taway32r41 3y ago
  The U.S. Senate begs to differ. Consumers defrauded on Zelle are left high and dry by the banks that created it [pdf] (senate.gov) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37438934 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37438934
  - SamReidHughes 3y ago
    Transactions where you got scammed aren't the same thing as unauthorized transactions.
    - taway32r41 3y ago
      "Banks are not repaying customers who contest “unauthorized” Zelle payments – potentially violating federal law and CFPB rules." I suppose you and Senator Warren have different definitions for unauthorized.
      - SamReidHughes 3y ago
        So, actually, 47% of them by dollar amount, according to the report you quoted. Selectively quoted. Why do you behave this way? Here's a question for you to think about: Why do they reverse some claims but not others?
        taway32r41 3y ago
        > Why do they reverse some claims but not others? I guess that is the question. I'll be interested in the bank's reply.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        Why is the word "unauthorized" in scare quotes? And a lot of the complaint is about "cases where customers reported being fraudulently induced into making payments", which would agree with the ancestor comment.
        taway32r41 3y ago
        Honestly I don't know. I copied and pasted the text and punctuation from the original document and it put them there. I also didn't do the research. The office of Senator Warren did. You can quibble with them. :)
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        > You can quibble with them. :) The scare quotes imply that they are the ones saying the case isn't very strong, so I'm not quibbling with them, I'm trying to interpret them.
- mikeweiss 3y ago
  Yeah.. good luck with that !
- constantly 3y ago
  It’s not that you’re completely and totally wrong that makes me mad, it’s that you state everything with such an authoritative tone that people won’t doubt it and will get into a bad situation based on what you’re saying.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    > Once you notify your bank or credit union about an unauthorized transaction (that is, a charge or withdrawal you didn’t make or allow), it generally has ten business days to investigate the issue. The bank or credit union must correct an error within one business day after determining that an error has occurred. [1] https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/how-do-i-get-my-money-back-after-i-discover-an-unauthorized-transaction-or-money-missing-from-my-bank-account-en-1017/#:~:text=Once%20you%20notify%20your%20bank,that%20an%20error%20has%20occurred https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/how-do-i-get-my-mon....
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    > completely and totally wrong Citation needed.
tssk 3y ago
Motorola G6 Plus (and many other Android phones) is supported by LineageOS which is up-to-date version with security updates. https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/evert/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/evert/
- badrequest 3y ago
  So to have an old phone that is still secure you have to know how to flash an OS onto a phone?
  - 867-5309 3y ago
    did you install the security systems for your house or car?
- hiq 3y ago
  This is misleading, as the firmware (binary blobs) most likely do not get updates.
- Arbortheus 3y ago
  I used to run LineageOS and some banking apps would not work as I had to unlock my bootloader.
  - tssk 3y ago
    This is truly ironical that some apps refuse to work on system that is much secure. I use LineageOS and it is true that I have to use Magisk to have banking app working. And I understand that this is not for everyone. I just wanted to mention that there is a way to use older phone and have security updates longer than vendor provides it. And even longer than Apple. I get the argument about binary blob updates. Security is never 100%. And it also shows another reason why binary blobs make things worse.
_ea1k 3y ago
He's using Firefox with updates. I guess they still provide browser updates for his version. TBH, that mitigates most of the real vulnerabilities. It may even receive system web browser updates, as those tend to go on for much longer than OS updates with Android. With a little care, it is likely to be fine.
downWidOutaFite 3y ago
These days "security" has been perverted so it is mostly not about protecting you from attackers, it's about preventing you from accessing your own data or running the apps that you want. You are the threat that they are securing against. Less "secure" means more freedom for you. Less "secure" can also mean more real security for you since you have to leave the mainstream which is what actual attackers target.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

How is it usable if it is insecure? People bank on these things.

londons_explore 3y ago

[flagged]

frumper 3y ago
I've had multiple family members wait months to sort things out like that. Visa fraud experience is usually immediate, checking/savings accounts not so much.
taway32r41 3y ago
The U.S. Senate begs to differ. Consumers defrauded on Zelle are left high and dry by the banks that created it [pdf] (senate.gov) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37438934 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37438934
- SamReidHughes 3y ago
  Transactions where you got scammed aren't the same thing as unauthorized transactions.
  - taway32r41 3y ago
    "Banks are not repaying customers who contest “unauthorized” Zelle payments – potentially violating federal law and CFPB rules." I suppose you and Senator Warren have different definitions for unauthorized.
    - SamReidHughes 3y ago
      So, actually, 47% of them by dollar amount, according to the report you quoted. Selectively quoted. Why do you behave this way? Here's a question for you to think about: Why do they reverse some claims but not others?
      - taway32r41 3y ago
        > Why do they reverse some claims but not others? I guess that is the question. I'll be interested in the bank's reply.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      Why is the word "unauthorized" in scare quotes? And a lot of the complaint is about "cases where customers reported being fraudulently induced into making payments", which would agree with the ancestor comment.
      - taway32r41 3y ago
        Honestly I don't know. I copied and pasted the text and punctuation from the original document and it put them there. I also didn't do the research. The office of Senator Warren did. You can quibble with them. :)
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        > You can quibble with them. :) The scare quotes imply that they are the ones saying the case isn't very strong, so I'm not quibbling with them, I'm trying to interpret them.
mikeweiss 3y ago
Yeah.. good luck with that !
constantly 3y ago
It’s not that you’re completely and totally wrong that makes me mad, it’s that you state everything with such an authoritative tone that people won’t doubt it and will get into a bad situation based on what you’re saying.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  > Once you notify your bank or credit union about an unauthorized transaction (that is, a charge or withdrawal you didn’t make or allow), it generally has ten business days to investigate the issue. The bank or credit union must correct an error within one business day after determining that an error has occurred. [1] https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/how-do-i-get-my-money-back-after-i-discover-an-unauthorized-transaction-or-money-missing-from-my-bank-account-en-1017/#:~:text=Once%20you%20notify%20your%20bank,that%20an%20error%20has%20occurred https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/how-do-i-get-my-mon....
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  > completely and totally wrong Citation needed.

tssk 3y ago

Motorola G6 Plus (and many other Android phones) is supported by LineageOS which is up-to-date version with security updates. https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/evert/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/evert/

badrequest 3y ago
So to have an old phone that is still secure you have to know how to flash an OS onto a phone?
- 867-5309 3y ago
  did you install the security systems for your house or car?
hiq 3y ago
This is misleading, as the firmware (binary blobs) most likely do not get updates.
Arbortheus 3y ago
I used to run LineageOS and some banking apps would not work as I had to unlock my bootloader.
- tssk 3y ago
  This is truly ironical that some apps refuse to work on system that is much secure. I use LineageOS and it is true that I have to use Magisk to have banking app working. And I understand that this is not for everyone. I just wanted to mention that there is a way to use older phone and have security updates longer than vendor provides it. And even longer than Apple. I get the argument about binary blob updates. Security is never 100%. And it also shows another reason why binary blobs make things worse.

_ea1k 3y ago

He's using Firefox with updates. I guess they still provide browser updates for his version. TBH, that mitigates most of the real vulnerabilities. It may even receive system web browser updates, as those tend to go on for much longer than OS updates with Android. With a little care, it is likely to be fine.

downWidOutaFite 3y ago

These days "security" has been perverted so it is mostly not about protecting you from attackers, it's about preventing you from accessing your own data or running the apps that you want. You are the threat that they are securing against. Less "secure" means more freedom for you. Less "secure" can also mean more real security for you since you have to leave the mainstream which is what actual attackers target.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]