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As long as schools allow to store books in their buildings... I keep seeing (in Europe) kids with school bags full of notebooks and books that easily weight 4-

by danwee 3y ago

As long as schools allow to store books in their buildings... I keep seeing (in Europe) kids with school bags full of notebooks and books that easily weight 4-5 KG. That's not healthy. The problem I see is that kids have homework that require the books at home, but then teachers use the books at classroom... so, they need to carry them here and there.

batch12 3y ago
Why is carrying 5kg of books unhealthy for children?
- kranke155 3y ago
  It’s unhealthy to carry them in modern backpacks id say. Poor design in a lot of them helps contribute to back problems
  - jwestbury 3y ago
    I've spent a lot of time hiking and backpacking. I've also had to walk five miles home (that's about 8km for those not in insane countries that start with "United") when buses or trains were cancelled due to weather. I absolutely refuse to buy a backpack without a hip belt of some sort, because while you might not really need it for the five-minute walk from the bus stop or train station to the office, that changes when you're carrying it for a two-hour walk in the snow.
    - naavis 3y ago
      Yep, a hip belt on a backpack makes a world of difference when you can put most of the weight on your hips instead of your shoulders.
    - kranke155 3y ago
      As a child I remember doing 45min + a day with them Thank you for the tip btw I am soon in the market for a backpack and will take care to get a good chest strap
- Ekaros 3y ago
  If we take a young child weighting 20-30 kg, 5 kg would be 1/4th to 1/6th of body mass... 15-20 kg or 10-15kg carried daily by adult is not a light load. And children have less developed bodies.
  - eddtests 3y ago
    Do 20kg children ever really carry 5kg bags though?
    - Foobar8568 3y ago
      I wouldn't be surprised if 25kg kids would need to carry 5kg bags. When I was a teen, I had to carry 10kg and I am sure I wasn't over than 35kg at that time. I was particularly slim but not as slim as some kids I am seeing today.
      - eddtests 3y ago
        25kg is the average weight of a 7 year old girl, so I think it’s fair to say the youngest lightest average child in school. Id be interested what Grade 1 girls are carrying around that’s totalling 5kg - that’s three hardcover undergrad physics textbooks lol. And even if they do combine to 5kg, there’s no evidence it causes any harm to children!
- belugacat 3y ago
  “Many authors have concluded that the weight of a school backpack should not exceed 10% of the child's body weight” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4564613/#:~:text=There%20are%20dangers%20that%20excessive,gait%20%5B16–19%5D https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4564613/#:~:tex.... The average 6 year old weighs 20 kg. The average 10 year old weighs 30kg. https://www.disabled-world.com/calculators-charts/height-weight-teens.php https://www.disabled-world.com/calculators-charts/height-wei...
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    That paper also finds problems with sitting: > However, when the child begins to attend school, their time spent in a sitting position is extended, which can result in disorders of posturogenesis.
  - arp242 3y ago
    No 6 year old is lugging around a backpack full books; these are teens we're talking about.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      5 kg is only a couple of textbooks. Teens need to pick what books to take home. Obviously digital is free weight, but physical textbooks have a real weight cost, I don’t want my kid going through what I had to go through.
  - batch12 3y ago
    > However, there is still no clear information about the impact that a school backpack has on the formation of spinal curvature in the sagittal plane in school children. The next sentence following the stats quoted from the link.
    - chillbill 3y ago
      [dead]
  - lm28469 3y ago
naavis 3y ago
How will you study books or notes for homework, if they are at school? I admit that we had a lot of school books to carry when I was young and I occasionally got a sore neck from lugging them around, but I wouldn't call it especially unhealthy. You anyway don't have that many school books until ages 13 and up here (Finland), and by that time you are perfectly capable of carrying things.
- simonbw 3y ago
  Usually this could be solved with a "home copy" for each kid, then "classroom copies" for kids to use in class. Kids still carry their notes, but those weigh a small fraction of what hardback textbooks do.
- paddim8 3y ago
  We didn't have a lot of homework. Only needed to take home a notebook and sometimes a book
r00fus 3y ago
For the first several years (here in Silicon Valley, CA) my kids had little to no content in their school bags (grades K-4). Then they had some stuff and we thought it'd be best if they got roller bags. Now they're in middle school and the roller bags are full and weigh 10kg+ it seems. Insane. I want them to ride their bikes to school but with this weight it would only happen with rear-racks and panniers. Sigh.
- MSFT_Edging 3y ago
  Do they actually need everything? Some kids tend to hoard all their school papers when it could be cleaned out and put in an archive binder/folder at home. Does the curriculum require they carry textbooks in daily?
eddtests 3y ago
That’s not unhealthy, that’s good! Carry a moderately heavy bag to and from school is hardly difficult, or shouldn’t be, and that sort of weight will be from larger books meaning older children anyway. We have an obesity crisis in most countries - now is not the time to worry about older children/teenagers carrying a couple kilos for a short period each day. I cannot remember a single person complaining about a heavy rucksack when I was in school a decade ago - by 13 we had CCF so had to go hiking with much heavier bags on the weekends. At 15.5 you can join the military schools and you’ll be carrying 25kg. This shouldn’t be a worry unless you’re physically disabled or something. Duke of Edinburgh involves hiking 13k a day with all your camping equipment and food at 12 years old over a weekend. Etc…
- Moldoteck 3y ago
  You'll not solve obesity by forcing them to carry books. On the other hand you can create some deformations on their spinal cord, esp if weight is not distributed correctly. If you want to solve obesity, invest in education about healthy food and how to cook it, since usually bad food is the reason or extra calories
  - asutekku 3y ago
    How many kids you've seen with spinal cord issues because of schoolbooks? Because afaik it's zero
  - eddtests 3y ago
    I wager more children get issues from bad posture on computers than carrying a mildly heavy bag from class to class… Honestly to me the worry of children’s backs carrying a couple textbooks is the epitome of the ‘nanny state’. Say a child has five different classes in a day, that will be five textbooks, some notebooks, a pencil case, and a packed lunch. Maybe also sports clothes. If a child can’t carry that (and I’m thinking 7+ here, but realistically you carry larger text books later in your school life) then they have some health issues already. If they do have health issues accommodations should be made of course! But the vast majority can carry a couple books. I agree fighting obesity is not going to be solved by carrying books BUT I think this attitude towards coddling children is partly responsible, along with food as you mention which is also very important. Edit: Just so this isn’t anecdotal points, here’s a survey that found no evidence backpacks cause issues in children https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/19/1241 https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/19/1241
chillbill 3y ago
[dead]

by danwee 3y ago

batch12 3y ago

Why is carrying 5kg of books unhealthy for children?

kranke155 3y ago
It’s unhealthy to carry them in modern backpacks id say. Poor design in a lot of them helps contribute to back problems
- jwestbury 3y ago
  I've spent a lot of time hiking and backpacking. I've also had to walk five miles home (that's about 8km for those not in insane countries that start with "United") when buses or trains were cancelled due to weather. I absolutely refuse to buy a backpack without a hip belt of some sort, because while you might not really need it for the five-minute walk from the bus stop or train station to the office, that changes when you're carrying it for a two-hour walk in the snow.
  - naavis 3y ago
    Yep, a hip belt on a backpack makes a world of difference when you can put most of the weight on your hips instead of your shoulders.
  - kranke155 3y ago
    As a child I remember doing 45min + a day with them Thank you for the tip btw I am soon in the market for a backpack and will take care to get a good chest strap
Ekaros 3y ago
If we take a young child weighting 20-30 kg, 5 kg would be 1/4th to 1/6th of body mass... 15-20 kg or 10-15kg carried daily by adult is not a light load. And children have less developed bodies.
- eddtests 3y ago
  Do 20kg children ever really carry 5kg bags though?
  - Foobar8568 3y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised if 25kg kids would need to carry 5kg bags. When I was a teen, I had to carry 10kg and I am sure I wasn't over than 35kg at that time. I was particularly slim but not as slim as some kids I am seeing today.
    - eddtests 3y ago
      25kg is the average weight of a 7 year old girl, so I think it’s fair to say the youngest lightest average child in school. Id be interested what Grade 1 girls are carrying around that’s totalling 5kg - that’s three hardcover undergrad physics textbooks lol. And even if they do combine to 5kg, there’s no evidence it causes any harm to children!
belugacat 3y ago
“Many authors have concluded that the weight of a school backpack should not exceed 10% of the child's body weight” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4564613/#:~:text=There%20are%20dangers%20that%20excessive,gait%20%5B16–19%5D https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4564613/#:~:tex.... The average 6 year old weighs 20 kg. The average 10 year old weighs 30kg. https://www.disabled-world.com/calculators-charts/height-weight-teens.php https://www.disabled-world.com/calculators-charts/height-wei...
- willcipriano 3y ago
  That paper also finds problems with sitting: > However, when the child begins to attend school, their time spent in a sitting position is extended, which can result in disorders of posturogenesis.
- arp242 3y ago
  No 6 year old is lugging around a backpack full books; these are teens we're talking about.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    5 kg is only a couple of textbooks. Teens need to pick what books to take home. Obviously digital is free weight, but physical textbooks have a real weight cost, I don’t want my kid going through what I had to go through.
- batch12 3y ago
  > However, there is still no clear information about the impact that a school backpack has on the formation of spinal curvature in the sagittal plane in school children. The next sentence following the stats quoted from the link.
  - chillbill 3y ago
    [dead]
- lm28469 3y ago

naavis 3y ago

How will you study books or notes for homework, if they are at school? I admit that we had a lot of school books to carry when I was young and I occasionally got a sore neck from lugging them around, but I wouldn't call it especially unhealthy. You anyway don't have that many school books until ages 13 and up here (Finland), and by that time you are perfectly capable of carrying things.

simonbw 3y ago
Usually this could be solved with a "home copy" for each kid, then "classroom copies" for kids to use in class. Kids still carry their notes, but those weigh a small fraction of what hardback textbooks do.
paddim8 3y ago
We didn't have a lot of homework. Only needed to take home a notebook and sometimes a book

r00fus 3y ago

For the first several years (here in Silicon Valley, CA) my kids had little to no content in their school bags (grades K-4). Then they had some stuff and we thought it'd be best if they got roller bags. Now they're in middle school and the roller bags are full and weigh 10kg+ it seems. Insane. I want them to ride their bikes to school but with this weight it would only happen with rear-racks and panniers. Sigh.

MSFT_Edging 3y ago
Do they actually need everything? Some kids tend to hoard all their school papers when it could be cleaned out and put in an archive binder/folder at home. Does the curriculum require they carry textbooks in daily?

eddtests 3y ago

That’s not unhealthy, that’s good! Carry a moderately heavy bag to and from school is hardly difficult, or shouldn’t be, and that sort of weight will be from larger books meaning older children anyway. We have an obesity crisis in most countries - now is not the time to worry about older children/teenagers carrying a couple kilos for a short period each day. I cannot remember a single person complaining about a heavy rucksack when I was in school a decade ago - by 13 we had CCF so had to go hiking with much heavier bags on the weekends. At 15.5 you can join the military schools and you’ll be carrying 25kg. This shouldn’t be a worry unless you’re physically disabled or something. Duke of Edinburgh involves hiking 13k a day with all your camping equipment and food at 12 years old over a weekend. Etc…

Moldoteck 3y ago
You'll not solve obesity by forcing them to carry books. On the other hand you can create some deformations on their spinal cord, esp if weight is not distributed correctly. If you want to solve obesity, invest in education about healthy food and how to cook it, since usually bad food is the reason or extra calories
- asutekku 3y ago
  How many kids you've seen with spinal cord issues because of schoolbooks? Because afaik it's zero
- eddtests 3y ago
  I wager more children get issues from bad posture on computers than carrying a mildly heavy bag from class to class… Honestly to me the worry of children’s backs carrying a couple textbooks is the epitome of the ‘nanny state’. Say a child has five different classes in a day, that will be five textbooks, some notebooks, a pencil case, and a packed lunch. Maybe also sports clothes. If a child can’t carry that (and I’m thinking 7+ here, but realistically you carry larger text books later in your school life) then they have some health issues already. If they do have health issues accommodations should be made of course! But the vast majority can carry a couple books. I agree fighting obesity is not going to be solved by carrying books BUT I think this attitude towards coddling children is partly responsible, along with food as you mention which is also very important. Edit: Just so this isn’t anecdotal points, here’s a survey that found no evidence backpacks cause issues in children https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/19/1241 https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/19/1241

chillbill 3y ago

[dead]