6 ms·

Disabling Ukraine's use of his satellites when they're about to attack the invader?

jtode 3y ago
This is spin. He had never enabled the internet where they asked him to; he declined to do so, which is a subtle difference, but a difference nonetheless. If you don't like a single billionaire being able to materially affect the outcome of a conflict between nation states, vote for nationalization of all ISPs and a strong bill of digital rights to protect it.
- cyanydeez 3y ago
  Eh, Russia is invading a sovereign country. That's not spin.
  - belltaco 3y ago
    And Starlink is helping Ukraine a lot to mount their defense. https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/10/europe/ukraine-starlink-not-active-crimea-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/10/europe/ukraine-starlink-not-a...
  - jtode 3y ago
    My genes are mostly Scottish, but my adoptive (ie. my real) dad is Ukrainian; make no mistake as to my sympathies in the conflict. But the problem in this particular instance is not Elon. The problem is that everyone is going along with the system where we let Billionaires run the show as they see fit. If you want this to not happen, you have to change the system.
xNeil 3y ago
Patently false. He refused to enable the use of satellites - he did not disable existing satellite connections. Two very different things. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/musk-says-he-refused-kyiv-request-use-starlink-attack-russia-2023-09-08/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/musk-says-he-refused-ky...
- dekhn 3y ago
  After reading just about everything I can get my hands about this incident, I have to conclude that the narrative that was published was misleading. I mean Musk still says he talked to Putin, but I think he didn't make a terrible decision in this particular case, as much as I would have loved to see the outcome.
- FreakLegion 3y ago
  Your source doesn't say what you think it says.
jstarfish 3y ago
That's a messed-up claim. I don't even like Musk, but volunteering to help with disaster relief does not obligate one to facilitate retaliatory warfare. You'd be calling for his head just the same if Starlink fucked up and guided a missile into a refugee camp.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
All US weapons delivered to Ukraine are delivered with the condition that they not be used on Russian territory. Elon's policy was the same as Biden's.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  Crimea is not generally considered to be Russian territory, unless one is Russian.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    But what about the bridge? It's in neutral territory. Is it a valid target? Probably yes, but is that a decision a third party like SpaceX should be making?
    - rsynnott 3y ago
      I mean, large sections of it are in Ukrainian territorial waters. No legal ambiguity there.
      - bryanlarsen 3y ago
        And large parts of it are in Russian territorial waters. Lots of ambiguity.
- _kbh_ 3y ago
  > All US weapons delivered to Ukraine are delivered with the condition that they not be used on Russian territory. Elon's policy was the same as Biden's. The US is more then happy to see there weapons used on Crimea as they have in the past repeatedly iterated. Crimea is part of Ukraine not Russia.
- Zigurd 3y ago
  Crimea is Ukraine. That's not just a slogan. Taking Ukraine was the first step to reconstituting much of the Soviet Empire using more aggression in Europe. There is way more than Ukraine at stake.

This is spin. He had never enabled the internet where they asked him to; he declined to do so, which is a subtle difference, but a difference nonetheless. If you don't like a single billionaire being able to materially affect the outcome of a conflict between nation states, vote for nationalization of all ISPs and a strong bill of digital rights to protect it.

cyanydeez 3y ago
Eh, Russia is invading a sovereign country. That's not spin.
- belltaco 3y ago
  And Starlink is helping Ukraine a lot to mount their defense. https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/10/europe/ukraine-starlink-not-active-crimea-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/10/europe/ukraine-starlink-not-a...
- jtode 3y ago
  My genes are mostly Scottish, but my adoptive (ie. my real) dad is Ukrainian; make no mistake as to my sympathies in the conflict. But the problem in this particular instance is not Elon. The problem is that everyone is going along with the system where we let Billionaires run the show as they see fit. If you want this to not happen, you have to change the system.

xNeil 3y ago

Patently false. He refused to enable the use of satellites - he did not disable existing satellite connections. Two very different things. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/musk-says-he-refused-kyiv-request-use-starlink-attack-russia-2023-09-08/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/musk-says-he-refused-ky...

dekhn 3y ago
After reading just about everything I can get my hands about this incident, I have to conclude that the narrative that was published was misleading. I mean Musk still says he talked to Putin, but I think he didn't make a terrible decision in this particular case, as much as I would have loved to see the outcome.
FreakLegion 3y ago
Your source doesn't say what you think it says.

jstarfish 3y ago

That's a messed-up claim. I don't even like Musk, but volunteering to help with disaster relief does not obligate one to facilitate retaliatory warfare. You'd be calling for his head just the same if Starlink fucked up and guided a missile into a refugee camp.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

All US weapons delivered to Ukraine are delivered with the condition that they not be used on Russian territory. Elon's policy was the same as Biden's.

rsynnott 3y ago
Crimea is not generally considered to be Russian territory, unless one is Russian.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  But what about the bridge? It's in neutral territory. Is it a valid target? Probably yes, but is that a decision a third party like SpaceX should be making?
  - rsynnott 3y ago
    I mean, large sections of it are in Ukrainian territorial waters. No legal ambiguity there.
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      And large parts of it are in Russian territorial waters. Lots of ambiguity.
_kbh_ 3y ago
> All US weapons delivered to Ukraine are delivered with the condition that they not be used on Russian territory. Elon's policy was the same as Biden's. The US is more then happy to see there weapons used on Crimea as they have in the past repeatedly iterated. Crimea is part of Ukraine not Russia.
Zigurd 3y ago
Crimea is Ukraine. That's not just a slogan. Taking Ukraine was the first step to reconstituting much of the Soviet Empire using more aggression in Europe. There is way more than Ukraine at stake.