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I can’t believe someone wrote an article about Neopets without mentioning the founder, Doug Dohring’s, ties with Scientology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug

I can’t believe someone wrote an article about Neopets without mentioning the founder, Doug Dohring’s, ties with Scientology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Dohring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Dohring

tvb12 3y ago
I heard about that in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI5cu3G5oXk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI5cu3G5oXk I may not remember it correctly, but I think the two original creators of the site ran out of money and were recommended to a group of investors who happened to be Scientologists.
add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
I don't see anything there about it except that he is one. Is there a story I'm missing? To someone who doesn't believe in any religion, it doesn't make sense that his should be called out and not someone else's mainstream but equally supernatural religion. Either we shame everyone for the silliness and crimes done in the name of their respective religions, or no one. It should be the latter.
- burnished 3y ago
  Don't know this specific human from Joe but scientology deserves a call out, it is active and entirely predatory. Same deal with other religions really, they just get more specific call outs by region.
  - lkbm 3y ago
    Neopets was sold to Viacom in 2005 (and again last year). The founder isn't especially relevant anymore. According to Wikipedia, he did, at one point, try to add Scientology content, but was stopped by the two main people.[0] (Doug is just the business guy.) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopets
    - KennyBlanken 3y ago
      And now he's just gotten heavily involved in electronic education platforms for young children, and presumably learned his lesson on how to keep from being stopped again.
      - DiggyJohnson 3y ago
        Seems like this sort of grave implication shouldn’t be made without some sort of evidence.
    - eurleif 3y ago
      Wikipedia also notes: "Dohring used Scientology's Org Board to manage the company." That's a management technique that L. Ron Hubbard claimed originated with an 80 trillion year old galactic civilization. According to Kotaku, an anonymous ex-employee claimed that: "The negative aspects of NeoPets, all came from the side of Scientology-Oriented business structure/psyche." https://web.archive.org/web/20071115124238/http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/neo-pets/inside-the-cult-of-neopets-141826.php https://web.archive.org/web/20071115124238/http://www.kotaku... (Link stolen from a post you made 17 years ago. :) )
      - lkbm 3y ago
        Seems like someone should make a Scientology-free alternative.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  You should watch Going Clear. I'm critical of ~all religions, but Scientology really has achieved a unique mixture of scale and awfulness.
  - maxk42 3y ago
    >Scientology really has achieved a unique mixture of scale and awfulness. This is what bothers me about criticism of Scientology. How many wars have been fought in its name? How many nations conquered and people enslaved? I'm an atheist but of all the lousy things done in the name of religions Scientology doesn't even make the top five.
    - ars 3y ago
      Scientology started in 1950's. So lets limit ourselves to things that happened after that. So answer your own question: "How many wars have been fought in its name? How many nations conquered and people enslaved?" for other religions? (People organizing along existing religions groupings during a war doesn't count.) It's certainly not many: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war#Modern_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war#Modern_period Seems like: Sudan, Yugoslav, Lebanon is debatable. Could maybe add ISIL. On the other hand Scientologists have enslaved 5,000 to 10,000 today, right now.
      - boffinAudio 3y ago
        The religious right-wing who have been driving the USA's criminal wars on Islam across the Middle-East surely also need to be factored into your evaluation...
        mrguyorama 3y ago
        We did not go to war with the desert because of religion, but rather much more boring and banal evils like "It will make me more likely to win the next election" and "it will be good for profits" and "my daddy was attacked by this guy"
- serf 3y ago
  generally speaking it isn't the supernatural beliefs that are called into question when one considers scientology, but rather the fraud/abuse/criminality that is related to the church and its' management. The time in which the Catholic church itself acted like an international paramilitary/intelligence organization is largely over, but that may or may not be the case with regards to certain other religions.
- KennyBlanken 3y ago
  "Silliness"? How about a history of murder, doxxing, and harassmentv of its critics and ex members? Hubbard founded it on a bet and then it took on a mind of its own with his death, becoming a tax haven and a cult - one of the most dangerous, prolific, and virulent cults there is. Stop and consider for a moment that someone who is nose-deep in such an organization is aggressively expanding into literacy and education platforms for young children - the age where religious and cult indoctrination is most successful. Recruitment plunges when the age of exposure is after critical thinking skills are developed. Obviously he would not directly attempt recruitment, but I guarantee there's more than just "he wants to be a good dude" going on. As another commentor noted, he tried to get scientology shit into Neopets.
- AlotOfReading 3y ago
  Well, it's certainly not irrelevant. Scientology principles were used to manage the company and employees were partially evaluated on their friendliness to it [0]. It wasn't ever a major part of the content because of internal resistance by people like the other founders [1]. Managements' religious preferences can have a meaningful influence on how an organization operates, e.g. Hobby Lobby. I don't see why it'd be out of bounds here when it's legitimately relevant to how Neopets was run. [0] https://theoutline.com/post/4190/neopets-was-run-by-scientologists https://theoutline.com/post/4190/neopets-was-run-by-scientol... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/neopets/comments/26fwhh/i_am_donna_one_of_the_founders_of_neopets_ask_me/chqqpbo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/neopets/comments/26fwhh/i_am_donna_...
  - taeric 3y ago
    To.the point above, though; this is not really unique? Is it?
    - jrflowers 3y ago
      It is not at all unique for random internet accounts to pop up and assert that Scientology is a normal religion just like all the other religions whenever it is mentioned even in passing, no.
      - DiggyJohnson 3y ago
        It just doesn’t seem relevant to the topic at hand. We’re commenting on an article about the longevity, and someone comes out of the woodworks to share their astonishment that we haven’t not discussed the religious beliefs of the founder. It’s astonishing if that doesn’t seem divisive or bizarre to you, at least just a bit.
        jrflowers 3y ago
        This is a good point. There’s basically zero current interest in the Scientologist “church” or its involvement in the personal and professional activities of its members. This is evidenced by any cursory googling of the church today. We are all best served by bringing up its equivalence with other churches upon seeing the word online as that serves the best interest of all curious parties.
- micromacrofoot 3y ago
  scientology is a cult from the top down, more blatantly than many other religions and a lot more centralized
- ars 3y ago
  Because it isn't a religion. And I don't mean because I don't believe in their specific beliefs, but because it doesn't act like a religion, it acts like a con artist business. Have you heard of any other "religion" that charges huge amount of money for access to their teachings?
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  >mainstream but equally supernatural religion. Scientology is verifiably and comprehensively different from most other non-cult religions by virtue of how it treats it's members and encourages them to act. Only one other religion of note has such "High control group" style features as discouraging psychiatry, discouraging interaction with non-Scientology family members, forcing through threat of blackmail members to do things, threatening the IRS and getting away with it, and generally treating members as resources.
primax 3y ago
You can't believe people are having a discussion without bringing up religion?
- FrankoDelMar 3y ago
  I believe he is highlighting how Scientology is more of a grift than an actual religion. I would be more concerned, all else equal, if a Scientologist was President than if said President was American Protestant or Catholic. edit: It could also have to do with Scientology’s history of child sex abuse
- patmorgan23 3y ago
  Scientology isn't a religion it's a cult/grift. For decades they were denied the tax status of a religious organization because they didn't meet the legal test until they mounted a decade long infiltration and harassment campaign to which the IRS eventually relented.
bashmelek 3y ago
I think it should be mentioned that the actual creators of Neopets are Adam Powell and Donna Williams, who apparently were unaware of this connection https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopets https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopets

tvb12 3y ago

I heard about that in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI5cu3G5oXk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI5cu3G5oXk I may not remember it correctly, but I think the two original creators of the site ran out of money and were recommended to a group of investors who happened to be Scientologists.

add-sub-mul-div 3y ago

I don't see anything there about it except that he is one. Is there a story I'm missing? To someone who doesn't believe in any religion, it doesn't make sense that his should be called out and not someone else's mainstream but equally supernatural religion. Either we shame everyone for the silliness and crimes done in the name of their respective religions, or no one. It should be the latter.

burnished 3y ago
Don't know this specific human from Joe but scientology deserves a call out, it is active and entirely predatory. Same deal with other religions really, they just get more specific call outs by region.
- lkbm 3y ago
  Neopets was sold to Viacom in 2005 (and again last year). The founder isn't especially relevant anymore. According to Wikipedia, he did, at one point, try to add Scientology content, but was stopped by the two main people.[0] (Doug is just the business guy.) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopets
  - KennyBlanken 3y ago
    And now he's just gotten heavily involved in electronic education platforms for young children, and presumably learned his lesson on how to keep from being stopped again.
    - DiggyJohnson 3y ago
      Seems like this sort of grave implication shouldn’t be made without some sort of evidence.
  - eurleif 3y ago
    Wikipedia also notes: "Dohring used Scientology's Org Board to manage the company." That's a management technique that L. Ron Hubbard claimed originated with an 80 trillion year old galactic civilization. According to Kotaku, an anonymous ex-employee claimed that: "The negative aspects of NeoPets, all came from the side of Scientology-Oriented business structure/psyche." https://web.archive.org/web/20071115124238/http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/neo-pets/inside-the-cult-of-neopets-141826.php https://web.archive.org/web/20071115124238/http://www.kotaku... (Link stolen from a post you made 17 years ago. :) )
    - lkbm 3y ago
      Seems like someone should make a Scientology-free alternative.
ethanbond 3y ago
You should watch Going Clear. I'm critical of ~all religions, but Scientology really has achieved a unique mixture of scale and awfulness.
- maxk42 3y ago
  >Scientology really has achieved a unique mixture of scale and awfulness. This is what bothers me about criticism of Scientology. How many wars have been fought in its name? How many nations conquered and people enslaved? I'm an atheist but of all the lousy things done in the name of religions Scientology doesn't even make the top five.
  - ars 3y ago
    Scientology started in 1950's. So lets limit ourselves to things that happened after that. So answer your own question: "How many wars have been fought in its name? How many nations conquered and people enslaved?" for other religions? (People organizing along existing religions groupings during a war doesn't count.) It's certainly not many: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war#Modern_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war#Modern_period Seems like: Sudan, Yugoslav, Lebanon is debatable. Could maybe add ISIL. On the other hand Scientologists have enslaved 5,000 to 10,000 today, right now.
    - boffinAudio 3y ago
      The religious right-wing who have been driving the USA's criminal wars on Islam across the Middle-East surely also need to be factored into your evaluation...
      - mrguyorama 3y ago
        We did not go to war with the desert because of religion, but rather much more boring and banal evils like "It will make me more likely to win the next election" and "it will be good for profits" and "my daddy was attacked by this guy"
serf 3y ago
generally speaking it isn't the supernatural beliefs that are called into question when one considers scientology, but rather the fraud/abuse/criminality that is related to the church and its' management. The time in which the Catholic church itself acted like an international paramilitary/intelligence organization is largely over, but that may or may not be the case with regards to certain other religions.
KennyBlanken 3y ago
"Silliness"? How about a history of murder, doxxing, and harassmentv of its critics and ex members? Hubbard founded it on a bet and then it took on a mind of its own with his death, becoming a tax haven and a cult - one of the most dangerous, prolific, and virulent cults there is. Stop and consider for a moment that someone who is nose-deep in such an organization is aggressively expanding into literacy and education platforms for young children - the age where religious and cult indoctrination is most successful. Recruitment plunges when the age of exposure is after critical thinking skills are developed. Obviously he would not directly attempt recruitment, but I guarantee there's more than just "he wants to be a good dude" going on. As another commentor noted, he tried to get scientology shit into Neopets.
AlotOfReading 3y ago
Well, it's certainly not irrelevant. Scientology principles were used to manage the company and employees were partially evaluated on their friendliness to it [0]. It wasn't ever a major part of the content because of internal resistance by people like the other founders [1]. Managements' religious preferences can have a meaningful influence on how an organization operates, e.g. Hobby Lobby. I don't see why it'd be out of bounds here when it's legitimately relevant to how Neopets was run. [0] https://theoutline.com/post/4190/neopets-was-run-by-scientologists https://theoutline.com/post/4190/neopets-was-run-by-scientol... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/neopets/comments/26fwhh/i_am_donna_one_of_the_founders_of_neopets_ask_me/chqqpbo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/neopets/comments/26fwhh/i_am_donna_...
- taeric 3y ago
  To.the point above, though; this is not really unique? Is it?
  - jrflowers 3y ago
    It is not at all unique for random internet accounts to pop up and assert that Scientology is a normal religion just like all the other religions whenever it is mentioned even in passing, no.
    - DiggyJohnson 3y ago
      It just doesn’t seem relevant to the topic at hand. We’re commenting on an article about the longevity, and someone comes out of the woodworks to share their astonishment that we haven’t not discussed the religious beliefs of the founder. It’s astonishing if that doesn’t seem divisive or bizarre to you, at least just a bit.
      - jrflowers 3y ago
        This is a good point. There’s basically zero current interest in the Scientologist “church” or its involvement in the personal and professional activities of its members. This is evidenced by any cursory googling of the church today. We are all best served by bringing up its equivalence with other churches upon seeing the word online as that serves the best interest of all curious parties.
micromacrofoot 3y ago
scientology is a cult from the top down, more blatantly than many other religions and a lot more centralized
ars 3y ago
Because it isn't a religion. And I don't mean because I don't believe in their specific beliefs, but because it doesn't act like a religion, it acts like a con artist business. Have you heard of any other "religion" that charges huge amount of money for access to their teachings?
mrguyorama 3y ago
>mainstream but equally supernatural religion. Scientology is verifiably and comprehensively different from most other non-cult religions by virtue of how it treats it's members and encourages them to act. Only one other religion of note has such "High control group" style features as discouraging psychiatry, discouraging interaction with non-Scientology family members, forcing through threat of blackmail members to do things, threatening the IRS and getting away with it, and generally treating members as resources.

primax 3y ago

You can't believe people are having a discussion without bringing up religion?

FrankoDelMar 3y ago
I believe he is highlighting how Scientology is more of a grift than an actual religion. I would be more concerned, all else equal, if a Scientologist was President than if said President was American Protestant or Catholic. edit: It could also have to do with Scientology’s history of child sex abuse
patmorgan23 3y ago
Scientology isn't a religion it's a cult/grift. For decades they were denied the tax status of a religious organization because they didn't meet the legal test until they mounted a decade long infiltration and harassment campaign to which the IRS eventually relented.

bashmelek 3y ago

I think it should be mentioned that the actual creators of Neopets are Adam Powell and Donna Williams, who apparently were unaware of this connection https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopets https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopets