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Anything to keep the auto industry from admitting how badly they screwed up by sticking with ICE cars. I'm sure protesting nuclear so they can keep ripping up

Anything to keep the auto industry from admitting how badly they screwed up by sticking with ICE cars. I'm sure protesting nuclear so they can keep ripping up towns for coal is fine, though.

tfourb 3y ago
I’m with you on the first paragraph, but in the second paragraph you may not be aware that Germany has a clear and legally binding roadmap to end coal mining. Could it be quicker? Sure. Would it have helped if nuclear power stations would have remained on the grid in Germany? marginally at best.
- wbl 3y ago
  It would have completely replaced coal this year.
  - 0x006A 3y ago
    How? Coal accounted for 33.3% of electricity production in 2022. Nuclear power accounted for 13.3% of German electricity supply in 2021.
    - marvin 3y ago
      I haven't done the numbers, but there's also Russia's invasion of Ukraine to consider, and the shift from natural gas to coal triggered by that. Germany's shutdown of their nuclear generating capacity, and their dependence on Russian natural gas was a major factor in the invasion, and hence Germany's necessity to shift back to coal.
    - JAlexoid 3y ago
      Nuclear was being phased out for a little longer than 2 years now. It was a stupid move, considering that Germany also pushed to classify gas power as "clean" in the EU.
  - Tade0 3y ago
    Hard coal maybe, but not lignite: https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economic-Sectors-Enterprises/Energy/Production/Tables/gross-electricity-production.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economic-Sectors-Enterpris...
- jgilias 3y ago
  So the plan is to ship coal from Poland or somewhere farther away to keep burning it in Germany’s coal-powered power plants?
  - myrmidon 3y ago
    Germany is mining ~10% (10 megaton/years) more coal than Poland, but is much less reliant on it for electricity and is significantly ahead at switching to renewables.
  - skrause 3y ago
    Current law is that Germany has to stop burning (not just mining) coal by 2038. The current government wants to push this date up to 2030 and is evaluating if and how that's even possible (https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/vorgezogener-kohleausstieg-100.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/vorgezogener-k...).
- nradov 3y ago
  The notion of having a "clear and legally binding roadmap to end coal mining" in 2038 is a total joke. The politicians got to issue some nice press releases but most of the hard choices were foisted onto their successors. I guarantee that the deadline will be extended and exceptions will be made. Germans will still be mining and burning coal in 2039.
  - tfourb 3y ago
    This comment betrays complete ignorance over the legal framework that these agreements are situated in, Germany’s political economy, the future and present cost structure of coal mining and comparable precedents in Germany’s recent history (including the abolishment of both hard coal and nuclear power).
linksnapzz 3y ago
Screwed up by...making the cars customers wanted. That'll show 'em!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ZoomerCretin 3y ago
  The climate of the entire world is changing for the worse. ICE cars do not consider negative externalities. Not to mention that EVs are enormously popular! They are only being produced now because Tesla is making them. EVs are far more reliable and cheaper to maintain than ICE cars, which is bad if you're a car manufacturer because people buy EVs less frequently than unreliable ICE cars. "ICE only exists because customers only want them" has no basis in fact.
  - barrysteve 3y ago
    ICE cars can be made reliable and cheap to maintain. Toyota, old GM products, ect. They don't make them reliable.. I wonder why?.
    - b112 3y ago
      ICE cars are incredibly reliable. I buy a new car, drive it a decade, and outside of things like brakes, tires, which wear by their nature, often have no repairs to deal with. Typically I do 25000km per year.
      - ZoomerCretin 3y ago
        You're definitely an outlier, or you only buy reliable cars.
        b112 3y ago
        Trick #1: car models are refreshed. Never buy the first 2 or 3 years after this happens. Trick #2: many car platforms share engines. Try to buy a car with an engine that has been used for a few years. These two things alone, will ensure you aren't a beta tester NOTE: car manufacturers pay through the nose for warranty repair work. They quickly fix all things which can impact that bottom line, which is why later years in a car refresh are much more stable. Which is why: Trick #3: never buy any car without a bumper to bumper warranty, and never if 2 years. Be wary of anything less than 4. Why? Someone with a 4 year warranty, will fix problems with a model generation of a car, to save issues even 4 years out. And this means that stability is ensured for years beyond that, typically.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Anything to keep the auto industry from admitting how badly they screwed up by sticking with ICE cars. I'm sure protesting nuclear so they can keep ripping up towns for coal is fine, though.

tfourb 3y ago

I’m with you on the first paragraph, but in the second paragraph you may not be aware that Germany has a clear and legally binding roadmap to end coal mining. Could it be quicker? Sure. Would it have helped if nuclear power stations would have remained on the grid in Germany? marginally at best.

wbl 3y ago
It would have completely replaced coal this year.
- 0x006A 3y ago
  How? Coal accounted for 33.3% of electricity production in 2022. Nuclear power accounted for 13.3% of German electricity supply in 2021.
  - marvin 3y ago
    I haven't done the numbers, but there's also Russia's invasion of Ukraine to consider, and the shift from natural gas to coal triggered by that. Germany's shutdown of their nuclear generating capacity, and their dependence on Russian natural gas was a major factor in the invasion, and hence Germany's necessity to shift back to coal.
  - JAlexoid 3y ago
    Nuclear was being phased out for a little longer than 2 years now. It was a stupid move, considering that Germany also pushed to classify gas power as "clean" in the EU.
- Tade0 3y ago
  Hard coal maybe, but not lignite: https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economic-Sectors-Enterprises/Energy/Production/Tables/gross-electricity-production.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economic-Sectors-Enterpris...
jgilias 3y ago
So the plan is to ship coal from Poland or somewhere farther away to keep burning it in Germany’s coal-powered power plants?
- myrmidon 3y ago
  Germany is mining ~10% (10 megaton/years) more coal than Poland, but is much less reliant on it for electricity and is significantly ahead at switching to renewables.
- skrause 3y ago
  Current law is that Germany has to stop burning (not just mining) coal by 2038. The current government wants to push this date up to 2030 and is evaluating if and how that's even possible (https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/vorgezogener-kohleausstieg-100.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/vorgezogener-k...).
nradov 3y ago
The notion of having a "clear and legally binding roadmap to end coal mining" in 2038 is a total joke. The politicians got to issue some nice press releases but most of the hard choices were foisted onto their successors. I guarantee that the deadline will be extended and exceptions will be made. Germans will still be mining and burning coal in 2039.
- tfourb 3y ago
  This comment betrays complete ignorance over the legal framework that these agreements are situated in, Germany’s political economy, the future and present cost structure of coal mining and comparable precedents in Germany’s recent history (including the abolishment of both hard coal and nuclear power).

linksnapzz 3y ago

Screwed up by...making the cars customers wanted. That'll show 'em!

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ZoomerCretin 3y ago
The climate of the entire world is changing for the worse. ICE cars do not consider negative externalities. Not to mention that EVs are enormously popular! They are only being produced now because Tesla is making them. EVs are far more reliable and cheaper to maintain than ICE cars, which is bad if you're a car manufacturer because people buy EVs less frequently than unreliable ICE cars. "ICE only exists because customers only want them" has no basis in fact.
- barrysteve 3y ago
  ICE cars can be made reliable and cheap to maintain. Toyota, old GM products, ect. They don't make them reliable.. I wonder why?.
  - b112 3y ago
    ICE cars are incredibly reliable. I buy a new car, drive it a decade, and outside of things like brakes, tires, which wear by their nature, often have no repairs to deal with. Typically I do 25000km per year.
    - ZoomerCretin 3y ago
      You're definitely an outlier, or you only buy reliable cars.
      - b112 3y ago
        Trick #1: car models are refreshed. Never buy the first 2 or 3 years after this happens. Trick #2: many car platforms share engines. Try to buy a car with an engine that has been used for a few years. These two things alone, will ensure you aren't a beta tester NOTE: car manufacturers pay through the nose for warranty repair work. They quickly fix all things which can impact that bottom line, which is why later years in a car refresh are much more stable. Which is why: Trick #3: never buy any car without a bumper to bumper warranty, and never if 2 years. Be wary of anything less than 4. Why? Someone with a 4 year warranty, will fix problems with a model generation of a car, to save issues even 4 years out. And this means that stability is ensured for years beyond that, typically.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]