7 ms·

Isn't it pretty well-known that many diseases/disorders are likely from post-viral infection? Howard Bloom who famously had CFS for decades talked about how he

Isn't it pretty well-known that many diseases/disorders are likely from post-viral infection? Howard Bloom who famously had CFS for decades talked about how he had a bad flu that never got better and his long recovery from it. https://medicalerrorinterviews.podbean.com/e/howard-bloom-part-2-einstein-michael-jackson-and-mecfs-how-howard-beat-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/ https://medicalerrorinterviews.podbean.com/e/howard-bloom-pa... Michael J Fox who famously has Parkinson's mentioned being sick in his documentary "Still" while filming "Leo and Me" where other crew members also have Parkinsons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_and_Me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_and_Me https://www.michaeljfox.org/grant/h5n1-influenza-virus-etiological-agent-parkinsons-disease https://www.michaeljfox.org/grant/h5n1-influenza-virus-etiol... Many people who are suffering with Long Covid CFS are more obvious though. The significant event from their pre/post covid life was a covid infection. It is beyond me how people can deny post viral syndromes. Just about every major virus has documented literature of people suffering. Long covid is putting a flashlight on a real problem. For those more interested in the journey, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYNMzaZk_iU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYNMzaZk_iU for a great overview.

downWidOutaFite 3y ago
It wasn't that well known until the people that have been trying to minimize covid since day 1 started talking about it.
hirako2000 3y ago
Why is it such an issue that people deny it? Viruses can cause organ tissue damages, that's enough for me to believe a virus can cause all sort of "syndromes" I'm not on the denier side but harass me with fear, threats, and free movement mandates and I will deny that syndromes even exist.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  It's an issue when doctors deny it. For many years, for many doctors, that was the case with CFS.
  - whimsicalism 3y ago
    There is still no identified viral mechanism for CFS. So yes, you will continue to find many doctors that deny that there is convincing evidence for viral causes of CFS because that is the reality of the current situation.
    - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
      Fair. I was talking about doctors denying the existence of CFS, but that wasn't the topic, was it?
    - pixl97 3y ago
      If I had to make guesses, my take is a viral+immune system interaction. You get the virus which causes your own immune system to respond. In that response we get a 'partial match' to something inside of our own system. This leads to a low level inflammatory attack against your own system. In type 1 diabetics there is some evidence of a post viral auto-immune cause in some cases. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2570378/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2570378/
      - bugglebeetle 3y ago
        And COVID infections increase you risk of developing type 2 diabetes: https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/verified-covid-19-infection-increases-diabetes-risk/ https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/verified-covid-19-infe...
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      But: absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. The fact that we still haven't found convincing evidence (with the caveat that 'millions of people complain about certain symptoms' in my book counts as overwhelming evidence) doesn't mean that such a mechanism doesn't exist. It may merely mean that we are looking in the wrong places, may not be looking in the right way and in general still have a poor understanding of how our bodies really work. GBS for instance: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/guillain-barr%C3%A9-syndrome https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/guillain-ba... Is linked to post viral or post bacterial infections, and even though here too there is a lack of complete understanding at least the symptoms are so clear (up to complete paralysis) that denying it seems pointless. It's also super rare, so there is no incentive to deny it. But if COVID ends up putting a sizeable percentage of the workforce out of action that may well have serious implications for how we deal with chronic disease and post viral infections. Incidentally: this is one of the possible futures that various experts warned about during the early days of the pandemic, that it would be a decade or more before we would fully understand the impact and that by assuming the post infection consequences would be mild that we may have made a grave mistake. Fortunately some of the more outrageous possibilities have so far not surfaced, this is one that we can deal with.
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  * fatigue is something everyone feels sometimes and the answer is to push through it for most people * it’s impossible to observe fatigue objectively, it just appears people are lazy or low energy * there’s no known (or at least there wasn’t last time I researched it) bio markers for CFS * there’s no known evidence of viruses causes CFS, just speculation Etc Things have changed a lot over the last 30 years. I think most people including doctors accept CFS is real whereas that wasn’t the case in the past. The case for the cause of CFS is still very much open, and I think it’s probably naive to say CFS is caused by viral infections. It’s probably the case that some CFS is caused by viral infections, but again, it’s hard to differentiate, it’s hard to prove, and even if you did, so what? CFS probably also has autoimmune causes, which themselves are diffuse in their root causes and mechanisms, and even psychosomatic roots in burnout and other extreme stress syndrome. Finally, when the causes are psychosomatic, that isn’t code for “fake,” it is literally a real issue it’s just not caused by an extrinsic agent. The health impact of extreme prolonged stress is not a joke, and it’s not the persons “fault.” There seems to be a real need for people to pin their CFS and other health issues on some external factor and not the abuse they’ve (or others have) subjected their psychology and by proxy their body to.
  - whimsicalism 3y ago
    > I think most people including doctors accept CFS is real whereas that wasn’t the case in the past. I think most doctors accept that CFS is real, but I also think most doctors would not call a somatic illness fake. See for instance these researchers [0] who are research somatic causes yet all agree there is a physical/hereditary component. Anxiety disorders also have a hereditary component and they aren't fake. [0]: https://theguardian.com/society/2011/aug/21/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-myalgic-encephalomyelitis https://theguardian.com/society/2011/aug/21/chronic-fatigue-...
- thenerdhead 3y ago
  Because of long covid and the millions suffering with it, we are revealing many new findings of a category that has largely been ignored for centuries. Darwin for example was thought to had CFS through his health journals, but nobody knew or cared about it. When those new findings challenge our current understanding, we get smarter as a species and work to alleviate the suffering by investing more money and time into these matters. Points aside, your third point is largely concerning.
- RoyTyrell 3y ago
  My girlfriend's sister suffers from Long Covid for going on 2yrs now. Some of the problems she had early on is that most doctors wrote her off as either lying or anxiety. More than one ER doc said there's no way that Covid could ever cause lasting symptoms other than lung damage, which she didn't have, so it's likely just anxiety. There was one DO she saw, during an admit for tachycardia, who said that he believed that she has a post-viral syndrome and knew of others with other post-Covid issues. The problem would be trying to convince his colleagues to believe it would be an uphill battle, so he hoped it was temporary for her. I know things have changed now but some doctors can be extremely arrogant and dismissive of patients (female patients more than male).
  - irrational 3y ago
    > but trying to get his colleagues to believe it would be an uphill battle You have to go through a lot of education to become a doctor, so people naturally expect doctor's to be wise, but the truth is they are just good a memorizing things. They aren't necessarily smarter than any other person and have just as many blindspots. * Source: My dad and uncle are doctors. My brother in law is a doctor. I have a friend who is a doctor. And I've known a lot of other doctors through them.
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      I dated a med school student for all of medschool and some rotations. Thus I have countless doctor friends now from those years. Everytime I bring up the reality of what most doctors are like, I get downvoted on HN for some reason. The doctor I dated for years never drank water. She loved diet coke. She ate mcdonalds constantly but avoided the bun. She was skinny though. I had to teach her how to pump gas because her dad did it for her until she was 22. She loved cocaine and moly. Currently cycles Adderall and Ritalin (or something very similar) so she doesnt get too used to one or the other. I could list 20 other 'wtf?' type of things about her. Most others are similarly weird, careless, unhealthy, confused and logicless.
      - 221qqwe 3y ago
- xeromal 3y ago
  I think it's simply because no normal human wants to know that they're permanently damaged. It's a real tough pill to swallow. You have to be very comfortable with your own mortality.
- freilanzer 3y ago
  Because I've been running from doctor to doctor for years without results - because they won't test for anything other than the regular stuff, like blood tests, heart issues, etc. My boss doesn't believe me since CFS or burnout couldn't possibly exist, you just need to focus on your work more. Everytime I say I can't go out since I'm too tired I get made fun of or have eyes rolled at me. It's like denying someone has a broken arm and gets ridiculed for not wanting to play tennis.
  - thenerdhead 3y ago
    You should read Howard Bloom's advice on CFS. He basically says you have to become your own doctor and use medical professionals as your council. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/attachments/howard-bloom-cfs-pamphlet-pdf.29064/ https://forums.phoenixrising.me/attachments/howard-bloom-cfs...
TheSpiceIsLife 3y ago
There was once a term in more popular use, at least by doctors, that seems to have fallen out of fashion: Post viral sequela sequela noun MEDICINE plural noun: sequelae a condition which is the consequence of a previous disease or injury. "the long-term sequelae of infection"
- thenerdhead 3y ago
  That is the medical term for it. PASC is another name for long covid.
- ryanklee 3y ago
  I listen to a podcast called This Week in Virology that's run by some prominent virologists and I hear this term used often, so I don't think that it's fallen out of fashion. Laypersons probably never much used the term to begin with.
tootie 3y ago
There is evidence that at least some incidence of obesity are tied to adenovirus 36 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-021-00805-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-021-00805-6
tonyedgecombe 3y ago
>It is beyond me how people can deny post viral syndromes. I feel part of the problem is we don't really have any good treatments for it. I know my doctor put it down as post viral tiredness but when I asked how long it might last or what I could do about it he just shrugged his shoulders.
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - gyy52380 3y ago
    Why ground beef?
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      Because I have tried it many times and my body has some intense urge for beef, and ground beef IMO is the easiest to make, digest, and cheapest and has fats that are good for you IMO. Some people think poorly of ground beef because "you don't know what's in it!" But moments later will tell you it's important to eat all parts of the animal because they have different nutrients. Ok then, sounds like ground beef is a good way to get different portions a butcher doesn't think sells well. Give me some foot meat, bring it on. There's also the fact that beef is basically the one food you could eat alone 365 days a year your whole life and get everything you need. That doesn't apply to vegetables or chicken or anything else really. Tldr; many people would say someone that eats a HUGE salad and some meat everyday, no breads or processed garbage would be healthy. Well, drinking 10 lbs of vegetables and having some ground beef is basically that except you're drinking more vegetables even that most people could ever eat in a day.
      - gyy52380 3y ago
        > There's also the fact that beef is basically the one food you could eat alone 365 days a year your whole life and get everything you need. That doesn't apply to vegetables or chicken or anything else really. Do you have some sources to back this up? I was under the impression that you should really eat red meat in moderation, but this might be outdated info.
bugglebeetle 3y ago
> It is beyond me how people can deny post viral syndromes. If there’s anything the mass death and injury of COVID have taught me, it’s that there is pretty much no level of harm that can’t be justified with appeals to “they deserve it because X”, with X being whatever quality or characteristic allows someone to rationalize away the fundamentally random and widespread harm as being limited to an out-group. This should’ve been obvious to everyone from the HIV/AIDS crisis, but it’s bluntly apparent now.
- 20after4 3y ago
  This is the scary thing about people. We're a pretty horrible species. This is how they justify genocides.
gmerc 3y ago
People denied Covid and often deny anything that forces them to confront uncomfortable truths. It’s a coping mechanism.
Fluorescence 3y ago
> mentioned being sick in his documentary "Still" I just saw this and he doesn't say that. He says that he was drinking with Woody Harrelson, had to be helped into his suite by a bodyguard and "I woke with a monster hangover" when he first noticed the auto-animated finger. > where other crew members also have Parkinsons Michael J. Fox himself throws some cold water over this to avoid over-extrapolating: "Believe it or not, from a scientific point of view, that's not significant."[4] Donald Calne, a Vancouver neurologist, said the incidence of Parkinson's in society is about 1 in 300, but that four of the 125 people on the Vancouver set of Leo and Me developed the disease. Calne said, "It could be coincidence. But it's intriguing, it might be something they were exposed to."
- thenerdhead 3y ago
  It is briefly mentioned when he is talking about his “workaholism” when he was young and also part of many articles on this phenomena. See the wiki page for sources. > So what about Fox and the suspected Leo and Me cluster? Did they all breathe in some environmental toxin in the studio? Or did they perhaps pass the disease to each other? One theory, that has been around for years, is that Parkinson's could be caused - or perhaps triggered - by a viral infection, maybe even influenza. > Dr Donald Calne, of the University of British Columbia Hospital, is treating two of the cast of Leo and Me. He told the Chicago Sun-Times that studies have found there to be an increased risk of clusters among certain workers who operate closely together - principally teachers, medical workers, loggers and miners. They could, the theory goes, be exposed to more viruses than most people, and this might cause them to develop the disease.
  - Fluorescence 3y ago
    > It is briefly mentioned when he is talking about his “workaholism” You'll have to timestamp or quote it because I don't see it. I have searched the subtitles. No relevant mention of sick, ill, flu, work etc.
    - thenerdhead 3y ago
      Sorry I don’t have time right now. Perhaps I misremembered, but thought he said he would often sleep off illness in the car when the driver would take him to and from gigs when he was a teen. I trust you looked.

downWidOutaFite 3y ago

It wasn't that well known until the people that have been trying to minimize covid since day 1 started talking about it.

hirako2000 3y ago

Why is it such an issue that people deny it? Viruses can cause organ tissue damages, that's enough for me to believe a virus can cause all sort of "syndromes" I'm not on the denier side but harass me with fear, threats, and free movement mandates and I will deny that syndromes even exist.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
It's an issue when doctors deny it. For many years, for many doctors, that was the case with CFS.
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  There is still no identified viral mechanism for CFS. So yes, you will continue to find many doctors that deny that there is convincing evidence for viral causes of CFS because that is the reality of the current situation.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    Fair. I was talking about doctors denying the existence of CFS, but that wasn't the topic, was it?
  - pixl97 3y ago
    If I had to make guesses, my take is a viral+immune system interaction. You get the virus which causes your own immune system to respond. In that response we get a 'partial match' to something inside of our own system. This leads to a low level inflammatory attack against your own system. In type 1 diabetics there is some evidence of a post viral auto-immune cause in some cases. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2570378/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2570378/
    - bugglebeetle 3y ago
      And COVID infections increase you risk of developing type 2 diabetes: https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/verified-covid-19-infection-increases-diabetes-risk/ https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/verified-covid-19-infe...
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    But: absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. The fact that we still haven't found convincing evidence (with the caveat that 'millions of people complain about certain symptoms' in my book counts as overwhelming evidence) doesn't mean that such a mechanism doesn't exist. It may merely mean that we are looking in the wrong places, may not be looking in the right way and in general still have a poor understanding of how our bodies really work. GBS for instance: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/guillain-barr%C3%A9-syndrome https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/guillain-ba... Is linked to post viral or post bacterial infections, and even though here too there is a lack of complete understanding at least the symptoms are so clear (up to complete paralysis) that denying it seems pointless. It's also super rare, so there is no incentive to deny it. But if COVID ends up putting a sizeable percentage of the workforce out of action that may well have serious implications for how we deal with chronic disease and post viral infections. Incidentally: this is one of the possible futures that various experts warned about during the early days of the pandemic, that it would be a decade or more before we would fully understand the impact and that by assuming the post infection consequences would be mild that we may have made a grave mistake. Fortunately some of the more outrageous possibilities have so far not surfaced, this is one that we can deal with.
fnordpiglet 3y ago
* fatigue is something everyone feels sometimes and the answer is to push through it for most people * it’s impossible to observe fatigue objectively, it just appears people are lazy or low energy * there’s no known (or at least there wasn’t last time I researched it) bio markers for CFS * there’s no known evidence of viruses causes CFS, just speculation Etc Things have changed a lot over the last 30 years. I think most people including doctors accept CFS is real whereas that wasn’t the case in the past. The case for the cause of CFS is still very much open, and I think it’s probably naive to say CFS is caused by viral infections. It’s probably the case that some CFS is caused by viral infections, but again, it’s hard to differentiate, it’s hard to prove, and even if you did, so what? CFS probably also has autoimmune causes, which themselves are diffuse in their root causes and mechanisms, and even psychosomatic roots in burnout and other extreme stress syndrome. Finally, when the causes are psychosomatic, that isn’t code for “fake,” it is literally a real issue it’s just not caused by an extrinsic agent. The health impact of extreme prolonged stress is not a joke, and it’s not the persons “fault.” There seems to be a real need for people to pin their CFS and other health issues on some external factor and not the abuse they’ve (or others have) subjected their psychology and by proxy their body to.
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  > I think most people including doctors accept CFS is real whereas that wasn’t the case in the past. I think most doctors accept that CFS is real, but I also think most doctors would not call a somatic illness fake. See for instance these researchers [0] who are research somatic causes yet all agree there is a physical/hereditary component. Anxiety disorders also have a hereditary component and they aren't fake. [0]: https://theguardian.com/society/2011/aug/21/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-myalgic-encephalomyelitis https://theguardian.com/society/2011/aug/21/chronic-fatigue-...
thenerdhead 3y ago
Because of long covid and the millions suffering with it, we are revealing many new findings of a category that has largely been ignored for centuries. Darwin for example was thought to had CFS through his health journals, but nobody knew or cared about it. When those new findings challenge our current understanding, we get smarter as a species and work to alleviate the suffering by investing more money and time into these matters. Points aside, your third point is largely concerning.
RoyTyrell 3y ago
My girlfriend's sister suffers from Long Covid for going on 2yrs now. Some of the problems she had early on is that most doctors wrote her off as either lying or anxiety. More than one ER doc said there's no way that Covid could ever cause lasting symptoms other than lung damage, which she didn't have, so it's likely just anxiety. There was one DO she saw, during an admit for tachycardia, who said that he believed that she has a post-viral syndrome and knew of others with other post-Covid issues. The problem would be trying to convince his colleagues to believe it would be an uphill battle, so he hoped it was temporary for her. I know things have changed now but some doctors can be extremely arrogant and dismissive of patients (female patients more than male).
- irrational 3y ago
  > but trying to get his colleagues to believe it would be an uphill battle You have to go through a lot of education to become a doctor, so people naturally expect doctor's to be wise, but the truth is they are just good a memorizing things. They aren't necessarily smarter than any other person and have just as many blindspots. * Source: My dad and uncle are doctors. My brother in law is a doctor. I have a friend who is a doctor. And I've known a lot of other doctors through them.
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    I dated a med school student for all of medschool and some rotations. Thus I have countless doctor friends now from those years. Everytime I bring up the reality of what most doctors are like, I get downvoted on HN for some reason. The doctor I dated for years never drank water. She loved diet coke. She ate mcdonalds constantly but avoided the bun. She was skinny though. I had to teach her how to pump gas because her dad did it for her until she was 22. She loved cocaine and moly. Currently cycles Adderall and Ritalin (or something very similar) so she doesnt get too used to one or the other. I could list 20 other 'wtf?' type of things about her. Most others are similarly weird, careless, unhealthy, confused and logicless.
    - 221qqwe 3y ago
xeromal 3y ago
I think it's simply because no normal human wants to know that they're permanently damaged. It's a real tough pill to swallow. You have to be very comfortable with your own mortality.
freilanzer 3y ago
Because I've been running from doctor to doctor for years without results - because they won't test for anything other than the regular stuff, like blood tests, heart issues, etc. My boss doesn't believe me since CFS or burnout couldn't possibly exist, you just need to focus on your work more. Everytime I say I can't go out since I'm too tired I get made fun of or have eyes rolled at me. It's like denying someone has a broken arm and gets ridiculed for not wanting to play tennis.
- thenerdhead 3y ago
  You should read Howard Bloom's advice on CFS. He basically says you have to become your own doctor and use medical professionals as your council. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/attachments/howard-bloom-cfs-pamphlet-pdf.29064/ https://forums.phoenixrising.me/attachments/howard-bloom-cfs...

TheSpiceIsLife 3y ago

There was once a term in more popular use, at least by doctors, that seems to have fallen out of fashion: Post viral sequela sequela noun MEDICINE plural noun: sequelae a condition which is the consequence of a previous disease or injury. "the long-term sequelae of infection"

thenerdhead 3y ago
That is the medical term for it. PASC is another name for long covid.
ryanklee 3y ago
I listen to a podcast called This Week in Virology that's run by some prominent virologists and I hear this term used often, so I don't think that it's fallen out of fashion. Laypersons probably never much used the term to begin with.

tootie 3y ago

There is evidence that at least some incidence of obesity are tied to adenovirus 36 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-021-00805-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-021-00805-6

tonyedgecombe 3y ago

>It is beyond me how people can deny post viral syndromes. I feel part of the problem is we don't really have any good treatments for it. I know my doctor put it down as post viral tiredness but when I asked how long it might last or what I could do about it he just shrugged his shoulders.

talldatethrow 3y ago
[flagged]
- gyy52380 3y ago
  Why ground beef?
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    Because I have tried it many times and my body has some intense urge for beef, and ground beef IMO is the easiest to make, digest, and cheapest and has fats that are good for you IMO. Some people think poorly of ground beef because "you don't know what's in it!" But moments later will tell you it's important to eat all parts of the animal because they have different nutrients. Ok then, sounds like ground beef is a good way to get different portions a butcher doesn't think sells well. Give me some foot meat, bring it on. There's also the fact that beef is basically the one food you could eat alone 365 days a year your whole life and get everything you need. That doesn't apply to vegetables or chicken or anything else really. Tldr; many people would say someone that eats a HUGE salad and some meat everyday, no breads or processed garbage would be healthy. Well, drinking 10 lbs of vegetables and having some ground beef is basically that except you're drinking more vegetables even that most people could ever eat in a day.
    - gyy52380 3y ago
      > There's also the fact that beef is basically the one food you could eat alone 365 days a year your whole life and get everything you need. That doesn't apply to vegetables or chicken or anything else really. Do you have some sources to back this up? I was under the impression that you should really eat red meat in moderation, but this might be outdated info.

bugglebeetle 3y ago

> It is beyond me how people can deny post viral syndromes. If there’s anything the mass death and injury of COVID have taught me, it’s that there is pretty much no level of harm that can’t be justified with appeals to “they deserve it because X”, with X being whatever quality or characteristic allows someone to rationalize away the fundamentally random and widespread harm as being limited to an out-group. This should’ve been obvious to everyone from the HIV/AIDS crisis, but it’s bluntly apparent now.

20after4 3y ago
This is the scary thing about people. We're a pretty horrible species. This is how they justify genocides.

gmerc 3y ago

People denied Covid and often deny anything that forces them to confront uncomfortable truths. It’s a coping mechanism.

Fluorescence 3y ago

> mentioned being sick in his documentary "Still" I just saw this and he doesn't say that. He says that he was drinking with Woody Harrelson, had to be helped into his suite by a bodyguard and "I woke with a monster hangover" when he first noticed the auto-animated finger. > where other crew members also have Parkinsons Michael J. Fox himself throws some cold water over this to avoid over-extrapolating: "Believe it or not, from a scientific point of view, that's not significant."[4] Donald Calne, a Vancouver neurologist, said the incidence of Parkinson's in society is about 1 in 300, but that four of the 125 people on the Vancouver set of Leo and Me developed the disease. Calne said, "It could be coincidence. But it's intriguing, it might be something they were exposed to."

thenerdhead 3y ago
It is briefly mentioned when he is talking about his “workaholism” when he was young and also part of many articles on this phenomena. See the wiki page for sources. > So what about Fox and the suspected Leo and Me cluster? Did they all breathe in some environmental toxin in the studio? Or did they perhaps pass the disease to each other? One theory, that has been around for years, is that Parkinson's could be caused - or perhaps triggered - by a viral infection, maybe even influenza. > Dr Donald Calne, of the University of British Columbia Hospital, is treating two of the cast of Leo and Me. He told the Chicago Sun-Times that studies have found there to be an increased risk of clusters among certain workers who operate closely together - principally teachers, medical workers, loggers and miners. They could, the theory goes, be exposed to more viruses than most people, and this might cause them to develop the disease.
- Fluorescence 3y ago
  > It is briefly mentioned when he is talking about his “workaholism” You'll have to timestamp or quote it because I don't see it. I have searched the subtitles. No relevant mention of sick, ill, flu, work etc.
  - thenerdhead 3y ago
    Sorry I don’t have time right now. Perhaps I misremembered, but thought he said he would often sleep off illness in the car when the driver would take him to and from gigs when he was a teen. I trust you looked.