3 ms·

Interesting read, and yes children of the privileged could easily avoid service. That was probably one of the many reasons we "have a culture war" today. At t

by jmclnx 3y ago

Interesting read, and yes children of the privileged could easily avoid service. That was probably one of the many reasons we "have a culture war" today. At the time, everyone knew the kids of the rich were never sent to Vietnam. Now with the press nothing more than a rumor mill, all abuses that are happening today may never see the light of day. During the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, the abuses that were reported were ignored because no one cared. By then, no one had any trust in the US Gov. And now, many Local and National Governments can hide a lot due to a very weak press.

lo_zamoyski 3y ago
> Now with the press nothing more than a rumor mill, all abuses that are happening today may never see the light of day. The press has always been, at best, a manicured presentation of events that, even at its best, is often hemmed in by external constraints. Some might say that the trashiness of today's press is a symptom of the erosion of elite control over an official narrative. Noise and sensationalism not only sell, but they can also function as distractions.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  What do you mean by "trashy" and what publications are you referring to? I'm sure it's out there (whatever it is), but thanks to the Internet I have more high-quality journalism to read than would have been conceivable back then. I don't have time for it all.
  - amanaplanacanal 3y ago
    I think it’s harder to find, though. The lack of gatekeepers means there is a lot more garbage too. We don’t know yet how this will all turn out. Do we have faith in our fellows to sort through and find the good stuff, or do we assume they will mostly get sucked in by the best propaganda? Of course we always assume that we can tell the difference.
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      > I think it’s harder to find, though. There is a much higher volume of trash and a much higher percentage of trash, but it's still not hard to find the quality reporting. There are a lot of surveillance-infested messaging apps, but whether there are zero or 10,000 of them, it's just as easy to install Signal. For news, there's the NY Times, Financial Times, Washington Post, ... PBS NewsHour is effing amazing. Also the AP, NBC/ABC/CBS, Reuters, AFP, BBC, etc. Who can read them all? I don't need to worry about the mountains of trash. > Do we have faith in our fellows to sort through and find the good stuff, or do we assume they will mostly get sucked in by the best propaganda? Well, I do have to worry about it because lots of people do get their news from trash (partly due to certain forces demonizing jouralism along with anything else that stands in their way), and their misinformation has an enormous affect on my life and the world. Misinformation is the primary cause of climate change, as an example - seriously: no misinfo, no climate change problem. > Of course we always assume that we can tell the difference. Yes, of course. The moment you start thinking that, you're the sucker, a walking talking mark. You, not me, that is. (just kidding)
wolverine876 3y ago
How do you see it connecting to the culture war? My impression is that the division then wasn't between those avoiding service and those serving, but between those against war and those for it. > During the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, the abuses that were reported were ignored because no one cared. By then, no one had any trust in the US Gov. I wouldn't say that no one cared, but do you have evidence of that explanation? I'd say the abuses were overlooked for multple reasons - people despaired, and especially the reactionary segment of society was (and is) opposed to anything put forward by 'liberals', no matter what it is. > with the press nothing more than a rumor mill Try the NY Times, Financial Times, etc. Their articles are very well-researched, based on going in-person to the events (including the front line of war), talking to large numbers of the actual people involved - the actual witnesses, reading confidential documents, etc. One way to think of it: If someone wrote a blog post like that, you'd be amazed.
- jmclnx 3y ago
  >How do you see it connecting to the culture war? The urban rich and well off children could avoid the war (college and all), where rural areas not so much, born and work on a farm, off to Vietnam. Thus a divide started to happen :) >Try the NY Times, Financial Times, etc Yes for national news, but in many areas there is no local news, so Town, City pols, in theory, can hide a lot.

by jmclnx 3y ago

lo_zamoyski 3y ago

> Now with the press nothing more than a rumor mill, all abuses that are happening today may never see the light of day. The press has always been, at best, a manicured presentation of events that, even at its best, is often hemmed in by external constraints. Some might say that the trashiness of today's press is a symptom of the erosion of elite control over an official narrative. Noise and sensationalism not only sell, but they can also function as distractions.

wolverine876 3y ago
What do you mean by "trashy" and what publications are you referring to? I'm sure it's out there (whatever it is), but thanks to the Internet I have more high-quality journalism to read than would have been conceivable back then. I don't have time for it all.
- amanaplanacanal 3y ago
  I think it’s harder to find, though. The lack of gatekeepers means there is a lot more garbage too. We don’t know yet how this will all turn out. Do we have faith in our fellows to sort through and find the good stuff, or do we assume they will mostly get sucked in by the best propaganda? Of course we always assume that we can tell the difference.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    > I think it’s harder to find, though. There is a much higher volume of trash and a much higher percentage of trash, but it's still not hard to find the quality reporting. There are a lot of surveillance-infested messaging apps, but whether there are zero or 10,000 of them, it's just as easy to install Signal. For news, there's the NY Times, Financial Times, Washington Post, ... PBS NewsHour is effing amazing. Also the AP, NBC/ABC/CBS, Reuters, AFP, BBC, etc. Who can read them all? I don't need to worry about the mountains of trash. > Do we have faith in our fellows to sort through and find the good stuff, or do we assume they will mostly get sucked in by the best propaganda? Well, I do have to worry about it because lots of people do get their news from trash (partly due to certain forces demonizing jouralism along with anything else that stands in their way), and their misinformation has an enormous affect on my life and the world. Misinformation is the primary cause of climate change, as an example - seriously: no misinfo, no climate change problem. > Of course we always assume that we can tell the difference. Yes, of course. The moment you start thinking that, you're the sucker, a walking talking mark. You, not me, that is. (just kidding)

wolverine876 3y ago

How do you see it connecting to the culture war? My impression is that the division then wasn't between those avoiding service and those serving, but between those against war and those for it. > During the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, the abuses that were reported were ignored because no one cared. By then, no one had any trust in the US Gov. I wouldn't say that no one cared, but do you have evidence of that explanation? I'd say the abuses were overlooked for multple reasons - people despaired, and especially the reactionary segment of society was (and is) opposed to anything put forward by 'liberals', no matter what it is. > with the press nothing more than a rumor mill Try the NY Times, Financial Times, etc. Their articles are very well-researched, based on going in-person to the events (including the front line of war), talking to large numbers of the actual people involved - the actual witnesses, reading confidential documents, etc. One way to think of it: If someone wrote a blog post like that, you'd be amazed.

jmclnx 3y ago
>How do you see it connecting to the culture war? The urban rich and well off children could avoid the war (college and all), where rural areas not so much, born and work on a farm, off to Vietnam. Thus a divide started to happen :) >Try the NY Times, Financial Times, etc Yes for national news, but in many areas there is no local news, so Town, City pols, in theory, can hide a lot.