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This is one of the reasons why I stopped using Ubuntu and switched to pop os. Is there something keeping you from switching to another Debian derivative?

k12sosse 3y ago
Honest question, why not just Debian and use a derivative instead? I took a 20 year sabbatical on Linux in the home. But with windows 11, I decided to go back. Stopped on debian, and chose Debian when I came back. I am super impressed with how it has matured and it seems to be built in a way that really does a fair job on looking out for you as a user, and as an administrator.
- p1necone 3y ago
  The main problem with Debian is outdated software. For servers the fixed release cycle is great, everything is properly tested and it should be rock solid without really needing to touch it. But for a regular desktop/workstation system I want more frequent software updates even if it comes at the cost of a little stability. (Of course there's Debian unstable, but I'd rather go with a distro where the rolling release is the main product, and they maybe do a little more testing before making changes)
  - senknvd 3y ago
    I find that Flatpaks[1] work really well for getting the latest version of GUI-only apps. For CLI tools and libraries I haven't found a great solution but I make do with an Arch Linux distrobox[2] container. [1]: https://flathub.org/setup/Debian https://flathub.org/setup/Debian [2]: https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/distrobox https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/distrobox
    - andrewaylett 3y ago
      Flatpak is great, and Homebrew works nicely on Linux for other bits and pieces. Linux support made it upstream to https://brew.sh https://brew.sh, so you get all the same things you'd get on a Mac.
  - jwells89 3y ago
    This point is particularly pertinent if Debian isn't the only OS you're using. It can be problematic if the software on your Linux machine is more than slightly behind whatever is on your Win/Mac machines.
  - HKH2 3y ago
    Well there are backports for some packages that require updates due to API changes etc.
  - Jedd 3y ago
    > The main problem with Debian is outdated software. I'm a Debian user. I see this a lot. Often in contrast with Ubuntu. Yet Debian's cycle is roughly on par with Ubuntu's LTS - every ~2 years.[0] Perhaps they mean there are interim releases in Ubuntu? It's hard to say for sure, as the phrase 'outdated software' can mean different things (more than 6 months old, more than 2 years old, in need of a security patch for > 1 week, etc). > But for a regular desktop/workstation system I want more frequent software updates even if it comes at the cost of a little stability. This sounds like you want Debian Testing (currently Trixie). Much more frequent software updates, with an extremely small risk of less 'stability'. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_version_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_version_history
    - erremerre 3y ago
      Isn't Debian Testing also more outdated when compared against the main distros ubuntu/fedora/opensuse? It used to be the case in 2010, but that is 13 years ago...
      - Jedd 3y ago
        I use Debian, so I have no idea how main distros of ubuntu/fedora/opensuse work, or what versions of things they offer, and how that might compare to Debian testing. The nice thing is, though, all that information is freely available if you wanted to compare. I can save you a little bit of time by noting that the criteria for a package being promoted from Debian Unstable into Debian Testing has been honed over the years, and is the reason why a lot of people settle on Debian Testing for their day to day machines: The package has been in "unstable" at least for 2-10 days (depending on the urgency of the upload). The package has been built for all the architectures which the present version in testing was built for. Installing the package into testing will not make the distribution more uninstallable. The package does not introduce new release critical bugs. If there's absolutely positively definitely a version of something you want that's in unstable, but not testing, and you are unwilling to wait a week or two before it turns up in Testing - you can usually just download the package and install it with little risk of conflict (presently or subsequently).
    - 3y ago
retrocryptid 3y ago
Stock Debian has been pretty decent recently. I was surprised to find it either didn't require proprietary blobs or installed them when I wasn't paying attention. I've also been playing around with BSD and it's like hanging out with a friend from elementary school: they're a little wonky, but you remember some good times together. PopOS isn't my favorite, but it is pretty straight-forward. If it's working for you then it's a total win. (Which is my way of saying "though I like Stock Debian and BSD, there is absolutely nothing wrong with PopOS.")
ssscool 3y ago
You haven't stopped, PopOS is a Ubuntu derivative, not a Debian derivative. The future looks interesting though with at least the bulk of gnome dependencies removed with Cosmics - will still be a Ubuntu third-party spin / derivative though.

k12sosse 3y ago

Honest question, why not just Debian and use a derivative instead? I took a 20 year sabbatical on Linux in the home. But with windows 11, I decided to go back. Stopped on debian, and chose Debian when I came back. I am super impressed with how it has matured and it seems to be built in a way that really does a fair job on looking out for you as a user, and as an administrator.

p1necone 3y ago
The main problem with Debian is outdated software. For servers the fixed release cycle is great, everything is properly tested and it should be rock solid without really needing to touch it. But for a regular desktop/workstation system I want more frequent software updates even if it comes at the cost of a little stability. (Of course there's Debian unstable, but I'd rather go with a distro where the rolling release is the main product, and they maybe do a little more testing before making changes)
- senknvd 3y ago
  I find that Flatpaks[1] work really well for getting the latest version of GUI-only apps. For CLI tools and libraries I haven't found a great solution but I make do with an Arch Linux distrobox[2] container. [1]: https://flathub.org/setup/Debian https://flathub.org/setup/Debian [2]: https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/distrobox https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/distrobox
  - andrewaylett 3y ago
    Flatpak is great, and Homebrew works nicely on Linux for other bits and pieces. Linux support made it upstream to https://brew.sh https://brew.sh, so you get all the same things you'd get on a Mac.
- jwells89 3y ago
  This point is particularly pertinent if Debian isn't the only OS you're using. It can be problematic if the software on your Linux machine is more than slightly behind whatever is on your Win/Mac machines.
- HKH2 3y ago
  Well there are backports for some packages that require updates due to API changes etc.
- Jedd 3y ago
  > The main problem with Debian is outdated software. I'm a Debian user. I see this a lot. Often in contrast with Ubuntu. Yet Debian's cycle is roughly on par with Ubuntu's LTS - every ~2 years.[0] Perhaps they mean there are interim releases in Ubuntu? It's hard to say for sure, as the phrase 'outdated software' can mean different things (more than 6 months old, more than 2 years old, in need of a security patch for > 1 week, etc). > But for a regular desktop/workstation system I want more frequent software updates even if it comes at the cost of a little stability. This sounds like you want Debian Testing (currently Trixie). Much more frequent software updates, with an extremely small risk of less 'stability'. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_version_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_version_history
  - erremerre 3y ago
    Isn't Debian Testing also more outdated when compared against the main distros ubuntu/fedora/opensuse? It used to be the case in 2010, but that is 13 years ago...
    - Jedd 3y ago
      I use Debian, so I have no idea how main distros of ubuntu/fedora/opensuse work, or what versions of things they offer, and how that might compare to Debian testing. The nice thing is, though, all that information is freely available if you wanted to compare. I can save you a little bit of time by noting that the criteria for a package being promoted from Debian Unstable into Debian Testing has been honed over the years, and is the reason why a lot of people settle on Debian Testing for their day to day machines: The package has been in "unstable" at least for 2-10 days (depending on the urgency of the upload). The package has been built for all the architectures which the present version in testing was built for. Installing the package into testing will not make the distribution more uninstallable. The package does not introduce new release critical bugs. If there's absolutely positively definitely a version of something you want that's in unstable, but not testing, and you are unwilling to wait a week or two before it turns up in Testing - you can usually just download the package and install it with little risk of conflict (presently or subsequently).
  - 3y ago

retrocryptid 3y ago

Stock Debian has been pretty decent recently. I was surprised to find it either didn't require proprietary blobs or installed them when I wasn't paying attention. I've also been playing around with BSD and it's like hanging out with a friend from elementary school: they're a little wonky, but you remember some good times together. PopOS isn't my favorite, but it is pretty straight-forward. If it's working for you then it's a total win. (Which is my way of saying "though I like Stock Debian and BSD, there is absolutely nothing wrong with PopOS.")

ssscool 3y ago

You haven't stopped, PopOS is a Ubuntu derivative, not a Debian derivative. The future looks interesting though with at least the bulk of gnome dependencies removed with Cosmics - will still be a Ubuntu third-party spin / derivative though.