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I have a student who uses a TI-84. She's a high schooler taking university courses. Hers has a backlight and a USB-rechargeable battery, but it's basically the

I have a student who uses a TI-84. She's a high schooler taking university courses. Hers has a backlight and a USB-rechargeable battery, but it's basically the same machine otherwise. The downstream costs of how we do standardized tests are bonkers.

radicaldreamer 3y ago
With LLMs being able to run locally on consumer hardware, I think we’re headed back to hand written tests pretty soon.
- chrisco255 3y ago
  Yeah, even before LLMs, the more advanced TI calcs like the TI-nspire can have Calc and Physics apps loaded on them that make tests trivial to cheat on.
  - andomggazzz662 3y ago
    That's why they were banned back when I took the tests. Have they loosened the restrictions on the n-spire? The standard back in the early 2010s was still definitely TI-84 being about the most powerful calculator you could use for most tests that mattered. Those calculators are intentionally kept slow by TI because of these requirements. My impression of the n-spire was that it had always been marketed much more towards professionals. The first one I saw in person was at an electrical engineering internship where my boss had just bought one.
    - chrisco255 3y ago
      No, they're still banned, but I got one early on when they were first released before they were consistently banned, and I realized shortly after that you could load some apps on there that basically allowed you to plug questions in and get the answer, since many problems are formulaic.
dehrmann 3y ago
We're probably better off doing away with calculators for standardized tests. There's a nice profit margin on those calculators, but there's also a floor price for electronics at play because at some point, making outdated chips, LCDs, PCBs, etc. doesn't actually get cheaper. So graphing calculators will always cost $30-$100. While they're wildly outdated, it doesn't make sense to arm kids going into standardized tests with Chat GPT, or even Wolfram Alpha. Standardized test math is pretty simple. Either design the test so a scientific calculator is enough, or better, keep the numbers small enough that it doesn't matter and have answers as simplified expressions, e.g. 6*sqrt(2).
- koolala 3y ago
  VR Slide Rulers
- User23 3y ago
  > have answers as simplified expressions, e.g. 6*sqrt(2) This is obviously the right way to do applied math. Then whatever engineer is building whatever the thing is that depends on the math can compute to whatever precision is necessary to keep the bridge from falling down or whatever.
- mlyle 3y ago
  A lot of tests do a little of both-- no calculators and questions that are simple numerically... and then functions that are pretty intractable and require effective use of the calculator for a little bit (but a good understanding of what you're manipulating/trying to find).
- saghm 3y ago
  In my freshman E&M physics course, there was no calculus prerequisite, so when we had to answer a question on a quiz or test that would be solved with an integral, the professor said we could just put the integral without needing to evaluate it and he'd mark it as correct. I think this approach makes a lot of sense; understanding the concept of "summing" the value of an expression across a range by using an integral is much more important than being able to do the actual calculation.
mcpackieh 3y ago
New models of the "TI-84" have an ARM coprocessor, so that's something at least.
sacnoradhq 3y ago
Wow, they still make TI-84's? Covets my vintage HP 48GX.

radicaldreamer 3y ago

With LLMs being able to run locally on consumer hardware, I think we’re headed back to hand written tests pretty soon.

chrisco255 3y ago
Yeah, even before LLMs, the more advanced TI calcs like the TI-nspire can have Calc and Physics apps loaded on them that make tests trivial to cheat on.
- andomggazzz662 3y ago
  That's why they were banned back when I took the tests. Have they loosened the restrictions on the n-spire? The standard back in the early 2010s was still definitely TI-84 being about the most powerful calculator you could use for most tests that mattered. Those calculators are intentionally kept slow by TI because of these requirements. My impression of the n-spire was that it had always been marketed much more towards professionals. The first one I saw in person was at an electrical engineering internship where my boss had just bought one.
  - chrisco255 3y ago
    No, they're still banned, but I got one early on when they were first released before they were consistently banned, and I realized shortly after that you could load some apps on there that basically allowed you to plug questions in and get the answer, since many problems are formulaic.

dehrmann 3y ago

We're probably better off doing away with calculators for standardized tests. There's a nice profit margin on those calculators, but there's also a floor price for electronics at play because at some point, making outdated chips, LCDs, PCBs, etc. doesn't actually get cheaper. So graphing calculators will always cost $30-$100. While they're wildly outdated, it doesn't make sense to arm kids going into standardized tests with Chat GPT, or even Wolfram Alpha. Standardized test math is pretty simple. Either design the test so a scientific calculator is enough, or better, keep the numbers small enough that it doesn't matter and have answers as simplified expressions, e.g. 6*sqrt(2).

koolala 3y ago
VR Slide Rulers
User23 3y ago
> have answers as simplified expressions, e.g. 6*sqrt(2) This is obviously the right way to do applied math. Then whatever engineer is building whatever the thing is that depends on the math can compute to whatever precision is necessary to keep the bridge from falling down or whatever.
mlyle 3y ago
A lot of tests do a little of both-- no calculators and questions that are simple numerically... and then functions that are pretty intractable and require effective use of the calculator for a little bit (but a good understanding of what you're manipulating/trying to find).
saghm 3y ago
In my freshman E&M physics course, there was no calculus prerequisite, so when we had to answer a question on a quiz or test that would be solved with an integral, the professor said we could just put the integral without needing to evaluate it and he'd mark it as correct. I think this approach makes a lot of sense; understanding the concept of "summing" the value of an expression across a range by using an integral is much more important than being able to do the actual calculation.

mcpackieh 3y ago

New models of the "TI-84" have an ARM coprocessor, so that's something at least.

sacnoradhq 3y ago

Wow, they still make TI-84's? Covets my vintage HP 48GX.