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I have a stellar contract SDE from Morocco. Aside from the humanitarian tragedy of this earthquake, my eyes have been opened to the challenges young professiona

I have a stellar contract SDE from Morocco. Aside from the humanitarian tragedy of this earthquake, my eyes have been opened to the challenges young professionals with Visas face in the US. They tend to be ripe for exploitation by hiring firms and contract agencies.

hirako2000 3y ago
[flagged]
- andybak 3y ago
  So prior to colonialism, there was peaceful free movement of populations?
  - tpm 3y ago
    Not always of whole populations (though often that too) but individuals travelled much more freely.
    - laverya 3y ago
      At least part of the reason that individuals traveled freely is that only rich individuals traveled. Paupers from London didn't get on ships to the new world - not without selling themselves into indentured servitude. When the economic barriers to migration fell to the point that subsistence farmers could travel between continents, we were always going to see either an equalization of living standards or the rise of political barriers.
      - bobthepanda 3y ago
        Yes. Even before the adoption of visas, the traveling experience for a first class passenger on a ship was very different from third class getting routed via Ellis Island in the US.
    - dijit 3y ago
      Not in the majority of Europe, especially places like England or Poland which had strict restrictions on what serfs could do for hundreds of years. Part of the reason for Britains diverse regional dialects is due to this.
      - rendaw 3y ago
        That was within the country though, right? Not between countries? And this article [1] says enforcement of serfdom was localized and costly and there was de facto serf mobility. [1] https://broadstreet.blog/2021/05/07/serfdom-the-state-and-the-problem-of-enforcement/ https://broadstreet.blog/2021/05/07/serfdom-the-state-and-th...
  - csomar 3y ago
    I don't know about peaceful but you could move. There were no visas and in fact no passports. Though, trying to get inside a "city" (ie: citadel) might be tricky. I guess they used gifts before to convince the other party. That being said, if you settled somewhere in some large empty land, no one will complain.
    - andybak 3y ago
      > That being said, if you settled somewhere in some large empty land, no one will complain. That's because any empty land would probably be entirely unsuitable for a settlement. Obviously we haven't specified a period in history but this all sounds suspiciously rose-tinted to me.
      - csomar 3y ago
        Plenty of land was suitable for settlement (ie: Argentina). Mostly empty and competing empires were too far. Of course, after the discovery of the "new" world, the amount of empty land reduced significantly.
- asdswe 3y ago
  If you remove borders, you also have to remove social safety nets and other things which make rich countries better to live in than poor ones.
  - delecti 3y ago
    There's no inherent truth of the universe that requires countries to have such disparate wealth that some are so much better to live in. I bet most people arguing for removing borders would also argue there should be much better global equality.
- slashdev 3y ago
  Where did you get your education? Serious question. Borders have nothing to do with colonialism. There is no human right to move and settle where you please, especially in this day and age where that entitles you to many social services paid for by taxes. A nation that does not control its borders is no longer a nation. No country on earth behaves that way. Not now, nor in the past.
  - Jcampuzano2 3y ago
    There's no human right to do so simply because societies and governments have deemed it such. There's not really any decent reason it "shouldn't" be a right for well meaning people. To be clear, I do agree that going somewhere else may grant you benefits you wouldn't have had in where you originally are from and that's due to taxes and other systems in place. But plenty of well meaning people who are skilled and willing to contribute to other societies are not allowed to do so just because they were born somewhere less fortunate or with certain stigmas attached. Its a complex problem of course, free movement does let some bad apples in that can cause a lot of harm. But it can go too far in my opinion.
    - nicbou 3y ago
      The problem of free movement is not bad apples, but simply too many apples. Even legal immigration is challenging to accommodate as a large influx of new residents disrupts everything from housing to culture. I say this as an immigrant who helps immigrants immigtate, so I'm very much pro immigration.
  - proudeu 3y ago
    Nations and countries are made up things, you know that? They are not naturally human but a social constructs made up by those in power to have better grip on other people (their serfs) in the past. Usually countries started as kingdoms and the premise was clear.
    - ithkuil 3y ago
      Many societies of the past were conglomerations of tribes where each group/tribe had their own hierarchy and the various groups interacted with various kinds of hierarchy or lack thereof. Think of ancient Gaul or North American native nations. Despite them being formally independent groups, a common culture united people against what they perceived foreign. Gauls resisted Roman invasion, and even managed some degree of cohesion under Vercingetorix because they felt the threat of the common enemy.
- throw_m239339 3y ago
  > VISAs are a left over abomination of colonialism. This is patently false. Borders and border control are as ancient as human societies themselves and were not invented by those you deem "colonialists", which for you I bet doesn't include the Arabs and Persians themselves colonizing Europe... Or the mongols...
  - skyyler 3y ago
    Ignoring Arab colonisation of Europe is something most Europeans do. Why do so many nouns in Spanish start with a?
  - leetcodesucks 3y ago
    [dead]
- gedy 3y ago
  > human rights to visit and settle in any nation. Well when Europeans move to other countries en masse (even without violence), it's called colonialism too.
- janalsncm 3y ago
  I don’t know enough about history to say how connected colonialism and visas are, but it feels deeply unfair that citizens of some countries have many visa free countries (USA, Japan, Singapore have some of the best passports) while citizens in other countries have to deal with a ton of paperwork and uncertainty.

hirako2000 3y ago

[flagged]

andybak 3y ago
So prior to colonialism, there was peaceful free movement of populations?
- tpm 3y ago
  Not always of whole populations (though often that too) but individuals travelled much more freely.
  - laverya 3y ago
    At least part of the reason that individuals traveled freely is that only rich individuals traveled. Paupers from London didn't get on ships to the new world - not without selling themselves into indentured servitude. When the economic barriers to migration fell to the point that subsistence farmers could travel between continents, we were always going to see either an equalization of living standards or the rise of political barriers.
    - bobthepanda 3y ago
      Yes. Even before the adoption of visas, the traveling experience for a first class passenger on a ship was very different from third class getting routed via Ellis Island in the US.
  - dijit 3y ago
    Not in the majority of Europe, especially places like England or Poland which had strict restrictions on what serfs could do for hundreds of years. Part of the reason for Britains diverse regional dialects is due to this.
    - rendaw 3y ago
      That was within the country though, right? Not between countries? And this article [1] says enforcement of serfdom was localized and costly and there was de facto serf mobility. [1] https://broadstreet.blog/2021/05/07/serfdom-the-state-and-the-problem-of-enforcement/ https://broadstreet.blog/2021/05/07/serfdom-the-state-and-th...
- csomar 3y ago
  I don't know about peaceful but you could move. There were no visas and in fact no passports. Though, trying to get inside a "city" (ie: citadel) might be tricky. I guess they used gifts before to convince the other party. That being said, if you settled somewhere in some large empty land, no one will complain.
  - andybak 3y ago
    > That being said, if you settled somewhere in some large empty land, no one will complain. That's because any empty land would probably be entirely unsuitable for a settlement. Obviously we haven't specified a period in history but this all sounds suspiciously rose-tinted to me.
    - csomar 3y ago
      Plenty of land was suitable for settlement (ie: Argentina). Mostly empty and competing empires were too far. Of course, after the discovery of the "new" world, the amount of empty land reduced significantly.
asdswe 3y ago
If you remove borders, you also have to remove social safety nets and other things which make rich countries better to live in than poor ones.
- delecti 3y ago
  There's no inherent truth of the universe that requires countries to have such disparate wealth that some are so much better to live in. I bet most people arguing for removing borders would also argue there should be much better global equality.
slashdev 3y ago
Where did you get your education? Serious question. Borders have nothing to do with colonialism. There is no human right to move and settle where you please, especially in this day and age where that entitles you to many social services paid for by taxes. A nation that does not control its borders is no longer a nation. No country on earth behaves that way. Not now, nor in the past.
- Jcampuzano2 3y ago
  There's no human right to do so simply because societies and governments have deemed it such. There's not really any decent reason it "shouldn't" be a right for well meaning people. To be clear, I do agree that going somewhere else may grant you benefits you wouldn't have had in where you originally are from and that's due to taxes and other systems in place. But plenty of well meaning people who are skilled and willing to contribute to other societies are not allowed to do so just because they were born somewhere less fortunate or with certain stigmas attached. Its a complex problem of course, free movement does let some bad apples in that can cause a lot of harm. But it can go too far in my opinion.
  - nicbou 3y ago
    The problem of free movement is not bad apples, but simply too many apples. Even legal immigration is challenging to accommodate as a large influx of new residents disrupts everything from housing to culture. I say this as an immigrant who helps immigrants immigtate, so I'm very much pro immigration.
- proudeu 3y ago
  Nations and countries are made up things, you know that? They are not naturally human but a social constructs made up by those in power to have better grip on other people (their serfs) in the past. Usually countries started as kingdoms and the premise was clear.
  - ithkuil 3y ago
    Many societies of the past were conglomerations of tribes where each group/tribe had their own hierarchy and the various groups interacted with various kinds of hierarchy or lack thereof. Think of ancient Gaul or North American native nations. Despite them being formally independent groups, a common culture united people against what they perceived foreign. Gauls resisted Roman invasion, and even managed some degree of cohesion under Vercingetorix because they felt the threat of the common enemy.
throw_m239339 3y ago
> VISAs are a left over abomination of colonialism. This is patently false. Borders and border control are as ancient as human societies themselves and were not invented by those you deem "colonialists", which for you I bet doesn't include the Arabs and Persians themselves colonizing Europe... Or the mongols...
- skyyler 3y ago
  Ignoring Arab colonisation of Europe is something most Europeans do. Why do so many nouns in Spanish start with a?
- leetcodesucks 3y ago
  [dead]
gedy 3y ago
> human rights to visit and settle in any nation. Well when Europeans move to other countries en masse (even without violence), it's called colonialism too.
janalsncm 3y ago
I don’t know enough about history to say how connected colonialism and visas are, but it feels deeply unfair that citizens of some countries have many visa free countries (USA, Japan, Singapore have some of the best passports) while citizens in other countries have to deal with a ton of paperwork and uncertainty.