29 ms·

LibreWolf – Custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom

200 points by jlpcsl 3y ago

standardly 3y ago
Any fellow OperaGX users here? It's kind of a meme but the feature set is neat and performance seems fine. I wonder how HN would feel about it
ClickedUp 3y ago
Great browser. LW is much better in terms of accessing sites than Firefox portable or any other FF based browser I've tried.
jiveturkey 3y ago
i believe LW is the only browser that can defeat advanced fingerprinting techniques.
guilhas 3y ago
I liked that they advertised webextensions firewall. But I was not able to make it work and don't see that anymore
ploum 3y ago
Always wondered why such projects are not part of Debian main repository.
- teddyh 3y ago
  Librewolf has been requested since 2021, but no Debian Developer has volunteered to be responsible for the package: <https://bugs.debian.org/981291 https://bugs.debian.org/981291> Since the Librewolf developers are providing a .deb package themselves, they could apply to become a Debian Maintainer; i.e. be able to upload that package (and no other packages) directly to Debian.
  - Macha 3y ago
    Browsers are complicated to package and so maintainers may not feel it's worth the time to package a fork of Firefox. Especially as pale moon's drama in the past may have led to a general skepticism about the whole ecosystem.
    - ploum 3y ago
      Never heard about this drama. Any link to share?
      - dralley 3y ago
        An OpenBSD developer was preparing a port of Pale Moon, and the PaleMoon devs were absolutely massive pricks about it, immediately became aggressive and started talking about lawyers, at which point all bridges were burnt and all work on Pale Moon for OpenBSD was dropped. https://github.com/jasperla/openbsd-wip/issues/86 https://github.com/jasperla/openbsd-wip/issues/86
        teddyh 3y ago
        Don’t forget the whole Debian Iceweasel thing (now thankfully resolved): <https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox#Iceweasel https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox#Iceweasel>
bashy 3y ago
Manual updates for macOS and repo link 404…?
- smnrg 3y ago
  Use brew.
  - sneak 3y ago
    If you're using this, you should be aware that the Homebrew package manager also includes the kind of nonconsensual surveillance features that this software patches out of Firefox. For this reason I switched from Homebrew to Nixpkgs.
    - robin_reala 3y ago
      Nonconsensual? Homebrew lets you know upfront before they send anything to their (non-US) analytics server, and running `brew analytics off` turns off analytics permanently. Sure, opt-in in preferable, but this is as good as it gets for opt-out.
      - sneak 3y ago
        It happens without obtaining consent. Notice is not consent. It's nonconsensual. The example I provide: imagine if you put up a sign at the entrance to a party that said "by entering this party, you are going to be groped". Telling someone you are about to violate consent is not the same as getting affirmative consent. Equating them is dishonest.
        robin_reala 3y ago
        Well, no. To amend your example, let’s go with the sign saying “This is a gropy sort of party. Please use one of these convenient ‘I don’t want to be groped’ stickers before coming in if that’s not your thing.’”
        dangus 3y ago
Nextgrid 3y ago
There are many valid counterpoints on why you shouldn't trust/use this, but the mere existence of it raises a very valid point and calls Mozilla's BS; why does this fork exist at all if Mozilla supposedly cares about your privacy, security and freedom?
- sneak 3y ago
  Mozilla ships Firefox with telemetry (aka spyware, given that it operates silently and automatically without consent) enabled by default. They also ship closed source DRM in the browser which infringes on software freedoms. Mozilla doesn't actually care that much about privacy or freedom, it's just marketing to make line go up and to the right while Mozilla staff can keep collecting paychecks for being "the good guys". There's a lot of money involved. There is a big disconnect between what they say and what they do. They're not an ad company, so Google/Chrome is obviously worse, but if you care about privacy you don't ship a browser with surveillance features in it (which is what Firefox is). I am happy this project exists, and I will support them. This is how free software is supposed to work.
  - mangecoeur 3y ago
    Telemetry and spyware are not the same thing (irrespective of whatever Firefox is doing). There is a big difference between tracking to try to understand how users are using a software or getting information on bugs and crashes, and tracking with the aim of monetizing personal data. I'm personally not crazy about telemetry implying information is uploaded to a software provider, but from experience I know that trying to create a software without getting in-use data is basically flying blind. You cannot expect users to tell you about problems or bugs they have, they will just stop using your software and you will never know why.
    - gabereiser 3y ago
      Tracking is tracking, no matter what outcomes you derive from it.
      - 3y ago
robwert 3y ago
privacytests.org shows how Librewolf privacy testing scores compares to others.
- lucgommans 3y ago
  Very interesting website! I submitted it[1] because it's quite the eye-opener for me (e.g. blob tracking is new to me, and if you click on the cell, it shows you PoC test code!) and I had missed its previous submission two years ago. Brave, Librewolf, Mullvad, and Tor hide the user's screen dimensions, whereas Firefox and Chrome don't. I'm curious, how often does that break things? I imagine that quite a few sites use this for choosing how to position things with JavaScript. Certainly not a majority, but with how many websites an average techy visits on an average day, it might still be somewhat frequent that you get ill-fitting content. Do you use Librewolf, or does someone else use it who can tell? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37433207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37433207
  - beardog 3y ago
    >I'm curious, how often does that break things? Pretty much never. They hide it by changing it. This results in a margin around your view port that is fitted to one of several common dimensions. Since they are common, nearly all websites look okay in it.
    - lucgommans 3y ago
      Oh I see! I know that from the Tor browser, didn't realise they all do it that way.
tiffanyh 3y ago
I like the idea of LibreWolf, but never understand why it isn’t just a FF profile setting (Eg “Max Privacy = on/off”)
- mangecoeur 3y ago
  There pretty much is https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/telemetry-clientid https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/telemetry-clientid Settings -> Firefox Data Collection and Use -> turn off telemetry.
  - tiffanyh 3y ago
    Isn't it way more than that. Like all of the settings detailed at the link below: https://librewolf.net/docs/settings/ https://librewolf.net/docs/settings/
grey_earthling 3y ago
Iceraven is a similar (in principle) fork of Firefox for Android. => https://github.com/fork-maintainers/iceraven-browser/ https://github.com/fork-maintainers/iceraven-browser/
- _rdvw 3y ago
  It should be noted that Iceraven is not compiled from source, ie. it only compiles the UI/app layer, and not the engine or other components. https://github.com/fork-maintainers/iceraven-browser/issues/463 https://github.com/fork-maintainers/iceraven-browser/issues/... Full disclosure: I maintain Mull and Fennec F-Droid.
- discardedrefuse 3y ago
  Mull is another popular Firefox Android fork. It's part of the DivestOS project and available on F-Droid. https://f-droid.org/packages/us.spotco.fennec_dos/ https://f-droid.org/packages/us.spotco.fennec_dos/
extr0pian 3y ago
Just yesterday I had noticed that, "Suggestions from sponsors" in the address bar had been turned back on after a recent Firefox update, and then installed Librewolf. I really want to use it as my main browser, but certain use cases such as online banking (at least with my credit union) doesn't seem to work properly, so I re-disabled "Suggestions from sponsors" in Firefox and went on with my day. Seriously, changing user settings with updates is a major dick move and something I'd expect from Microsoft and not Mozilla. Edit: Turning off the anti-fingerprinting feature in LibreWolf is needed for online banking to work.
- kornhole 3y ago
  I use both Firefox and Librewolf to achieve browser isolation. Librewolf is my default browser for all anonymous browsing such as news sites. I use Firefox for all my real name ID account logins such as banking. This way your Librewolf browser fingerprint is never associated to your real ID.
  - extr0pian 3y ago
    Yeah, I get the concept of using different browsers for different things to compartmentalize, and I've tried it, but to me it just seems like I'm making my life more complicated switching back and forth, and I feel like it's cluttering up my system. I love how Librewolf takes privacy to another level, but honestly, all I want is Firefox without all the BS and the ability to disable things I don't want (and not having them turned back on).
    - snowram 3y ago
      A custom user.js will do the job
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - hn8305823 3y ago
        It used to be really easy to search about:config for 'http' and just delete all URL's to quiet things down. More recently the about:config search only searches attributes not values so you have to "show all" and it's quite tedious to find them all. Even then there are some things you have to block with a hosts file entry. That said it is possible to have firefox start cleanly with absolutely no network traffic except for sites you visit.
MrAlex94 3y ago
Disclaimer: I develop Waterfox. I think it’s worth noting that Librewolf provides unsigned binaries and at least on Windows, you need to trust a third party service to provide automatic updates.
- ryanrussell 3y ago
  These are both interesting niche projects from a user privacy perspective. Is anyone who is more familiar with Waterfox and LibreWolf able to objectively expand on the differences between these projects? It sounds like the unsigned binary may be a maturity issue that will get tackled based on the mission statement(educated guess?). Would greatly appreciate anyone with more knowledge about these projects elaborating.
  - Terretta 3y ago
    > interesting niche projects from a user privacy perspective. While it's difficult to track Waterfox's stance, this is from one of the earlier blog posts on what appears to be a hot button topic for users: I’ve never wanted or tried to have Waterfox appear as a privacy tool or anything more than what it is. That’s for hyper specialised tools such as Tor. People have extrapolated more from Waterfox themselves. I never wanted Waterfox to be a part of the hyper-privacy community. It would just feel like standards that would be impossible to uphold, especially for something such as a web browser on the internet. Throughout the years people have always asked about Waterfox and privacy, and if they’ve ever wanted more than it can afford, I’ve always pushed them to use Tor. Waterfox was here for customisations and speed, with a good level of privacy. I can respect what the community fights for, but I don’t think I can respect how they sometimes fight for it or how they act when they believe they are wronged. Harassment and foul words seem to be the normal, as I’ve experienced. As far as I’m aware, Waterfox has never been listed anywhere as a privacy tool, and rightly so. Note the Waterfox commenter in this thread is not calling it "privacy" tool, while focusing on aspects that carry "trust". These are indeed distinct.
  - MrAlex94 3y ago
    I’m happy to expand on it - maybe someone else can chime in as well. From a comment[1] I’ve made before for this kind of comparison: “Now, ignoring feature differences between all the forks out there, I'd like to present a different perspective and consideration that I think gets overlooked when comparing forks like Waterfox to other forks (if I am incorrect regarding Librewolf, someone please correct me). * Waterfox provides signed binaries for download. Librewolf (and most of the rest) do not. Checksum's are all well and good, but IMO, not enough. Code signing provides trust. * Librewolf does not provide auto-updates. There are 3rd party tools out there, but IMHO that brings in its own set of problems, and breaks the chain-of-trust. * The most important one that I believe, maybe apart from Pale Moon, only Waterfox does, is offers accountability. There is (and has been since 2012) a legal entity behind Waterfox. That used to be Waterfox Limited, then it was System1 and now BrowserWorks (the entity I control). Laws must be abided and the end user actually has an entity to hold accountable. GDPR, CCPA, the rest are things that actually need to be followed. The other projects, who are you really going to hold accountable if things go wrong? To me this is super important because a browser is used for sensitive information. It's just not worth the risk otherwise. This also goes hand in hand with the code signing. * Above all else, Waterfox has been around for 12 years now. Don't get me wrong, things like EV code signing certs are a bit of a racket, and yeah you can jump in and code audit all those other forks too. But really, push comes to shove, they can just disappear into the aether.” [1] https://reddit.com/r/waterfox/comments/14seevh/waterfox_or_librewolf/jqwuan8/ https://reddit.com/r/waterfox/comments/14seevh/waterfox_or_l...
roschdal 3y ago
LibreWolf is a set of patches against Firefox.
clot27 3y ago
[flagged]
itvision 3y ago
The biggest problem with all these "privacy" oriented web browsers is that you have to trust their creators explicitly and I just cannot. Most often the developers are some random anonymous Joes without CVs or anything proving they have reputation at stake. Thank you, but no thank you. Even if the official Firefox "leaks" something it's well controlled and well known. What do these browsers do? I've no idea.
- WhereIsTheTruth 3y ago
  It's just a series of patches pick them up individually and maintain your own fork, not that hard https://codeberg.org/librewolf/source https://codeberg.org/librewolf/source
- ShowalkKama 3y ago
  it's open source, you can simply look at the code (or, better, at the differences with firefox)
  - Astronaut3315 3y ago
    Just like that North Korean symbol downloader on GitHub, which had a malware downloader hidden in plain sight for nearly a year with no one noticing?
    - inversetelecine 3y ago
      On the other hand, on might ask: How long would it have gone unnoticed if the source wasn't open?
    - archargelod 3y ago
      There are far more eyes on firefox and it's hardened forks, then on a random/obscure piece of software (sorry, I have no idea what exact malware you're referencing).
      - bragr 3y ago
ac130kz 3y ago
Just use a custom user.js, LibreWolf doesn't deliver much beyond a few major tweaks and a logo.
- funOtter 3y ago
  do you have an example or directions?
  - joveian 3y ago
    https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js/ https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js/ I don't use or recommend exactly what they do but they have a long list of settings you might want to change that is better documented than any other source I've seen and if you click the wiki link there is detailed info about how user.js works.
  - ac130kz 3y ago
    You can start with mine, I've mostly stripped all the telemetry, added DoQ DNS (please, don't use my NextDNS id :D otherwise it's going to eat the free 300k limit), lots extra DNS/HTTP/rendering performance tweaks, some security fixes (e.g. deprecated ciphers) without performance penalties and personal Firefox's quality of life changes (smaller delays, ability to save everything, tracker stripping, etc). Some configs like the already mentioned Arkenfox's take security to a next level with first party cookies only, sandboxing and etc, it might be too overwhelming and not actually that necessary. https://gitlab.com/ac130kz/dotfiles/-/blob/main/configs/user.js?ref_type=heads https://gitlab.com/ac130kz/dotfiles/-/blob/main/configs/user...
deafpolygon 3y ago
What exactly do we gain by browsing more anonymously if we just read news or go on social media sites?
- graemep 3y ago
  People profiling your interests, mental state, politics, religion, sexysl orientation, ..... You can deduce a lot with enough data.
  - deafpolygon 3y ago
    how often is this data correlated with an actual person? or is this info collected in aggregate on a group of people?
gamedna 3y ago
privacy browsers be all like: https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/
mewse-hn 3y ago
I got fed up with Chrome recently (some real ugly on-by-default advertising tracking) and switched to Firefox on my work computer but not my home computer yet. Is anyone out there self-hosting firefox sync successfully? My googling seemed to only bring up a deprecated version so I haven't really tried setting it up yet.
- itvision 3y ago
  Firefox sync encrypts your data with your password (it's not exactly like that but that's the gist of it) and Mozilla has zero access to it, none at all. I see no reason not to trust them with that. It's a lot easier and _safer_ to use their service then to set up your own. Why safer? Because with your own self-hosting, now you have to have an extra device wide open to the Internet whose safety and security you need to maintain. If it's some shared hosting, you'll have to trust your hosting provider.
  - Cyphase 3y ago
    You make a good point about a potential pitfall of self-hosting things. I'll mention though that if you are self-hosting for just yourself (or some small number of people), you can set up a VPN connection for secure access to your private network, which eliminates the need to open ports to the public internet at all. Other than the VPN of course. Not that you should necessarily rely solely on the VPN for your security, but it helps.
PurpleRamen 3y ago
It's fascinating that there are quite a number of forks from Firefox aiming for more privacy, security and old codebases, but none for improving the browser itself, making it more interesting for power users. Considering all that was lost in the quantum-phase, I would think someone would fork it just for improving some small things like better vim-style support or a second sidebar.
- kaba0 3y ago
  A browser is easily larger than a whole OS. Like, even Microsoft gave up on their own engine. That's why we should be so thankful for Firefox.
Brian_K_White 3y ago
Another reason to use it on Ubuntu is simply it's still available as a normal app instead of a snap.
transportheap 3y ago
previous thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29106155 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29106155
- dang 3y ago
  Thanks! Macroexpanded: LibreWolf: A custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36921443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36921443 - July 2023 (8 comments) LibreWolf: A privacy-focused Firefox fork - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31894749 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31894749 - June 2022 (77 comments) LibreWolf – A fork of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30720301 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30720301 - March 2022 (217 comments) LibreWolf – A fork of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29106155 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29106155 - Nov 2021 (306 comments) LibreWolf: A fork of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26034774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26034774 - Feb 2021 (1 comment) LibreWolf – A fork of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23901130 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23901130 - July 2020 (5 comments)
MOZ_KILL_TRUST 3y ago
[flagged]
ArtemZ 3y ago
The name is really weird, like it was selected by a 12 years old
hatsune 3y ago
The daily dose of privacyguides forum dissing LibreWolf for unjustified [reason](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/librewolf-browser-firefox-fork/148 https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/librewolf-browser-firefo...), while their recommanded "Brave" was delibrately a product to replace annoying ads with their own commercial ads and earn BAT crypto, built-in VPN, built-in Web3, wallet, whatever stuff... Their opinion TLDR; no auto-updater (community auto-updater exists), no advantage to config Arkenfox.js by yourself (but why do I need to be a json geek to just use a browser?) LW the best daily-driver browser for me, they still include the option to use FF Sync, which is supposed to be safe as E2EE. Mullvad Browser is better but hard to daily drive. Similar to ublock origin advanced mode (which basically is uMatrix continued), be prepared to fix the site by yourself sometimes. But for safety, privacy, anonymity and security, hell yah.

200 points by jlpcsl 3y ago

Any fellow OperaGX users here? It's kind of a meme but the feature set is neat and performance seems fine. I wonder how HN would feel about it

ClickedUp 3y ago

Great browser. LW is much better in terms of accessing sites than Firefox portable or any other FF based browser I've tried.

jiveturkey 3y ago

i believe LW is the only browser that can defeat advanced fingerprinting techniques.

guilhas 3y ago

I liked that they advertised webextensions firewall. But I was not able to make it work and don't see that anymore

ploum 3y ago

Always wondered why such projects are not part of Debian main repository.

teddyh 3y ago
Librewolf has been requested since 2021, but no Debian Developer has volunteered to be responsible for the package: <https://bugs.debian.org/981291 https://bugs.debian.org/981291> Since the Librewolf developers are providing a .deb package themselves, they could apply to become a Debian Maintainer; i.e. be able to upload that package (and no other packages) directly to Debian.
- Macha 3y ago
  Browsers are complicated to package and so maintainers may not feel it's worth the time to package a fork of Firefox. Especially as pale moon's drama in the past may have led to a general skepticism about the whole ecosystem.
  - ploum 3y ago
    Never heard about this drama. Any link to share?
    - dralley 3y ago
      An OpenBSD developer was preparing a port of Pale Moon, and the PaleMoon devs were absolutely massive pricks about it, immediately became aggressive and started talking about lawyers, at which point all bridges were burnt and all work on Pale Moon for OpenBSD was dropped. https://github.com/jasperla/openbsd-wip/issues/86 https://github.com/jasperla/openbsd-wip/issues/86
      - teddyh 3y ago
        Don’t forget the whole Debian Iceweasel thing (now thankfully resolved): <https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox#Iceweasel https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox#Iceweasel>

bashy 3y ago

Manual updates for macOS and repo link 404…?

smnrg 3y ago
Use brew.
- sneak 3y ago
  If you're using this, you should be aware that the Homebrew package manager also includes the kind of nonconsensual surveillance features that this software patches out of Firefox. For this reason I switched from Homebrew to Nixpkgs.
  - robin_reala 3y ago
    Nonconsensual? Homebrew lets you know upfront before they send anything to their (non-US) analytics server, and running `brew analytics off` turns off analytics permanently. Sure, opt-in in preferable, but this is as good as it gets for opt-out.
    - sneak 3y ago
      It happens without obtaining consent. Notice is not consent. It's nonconsensual. The example I provide: imagine if you put up a sign at the entrance to a party that said "by entering this party, you are going to be groped". Telling someone you are about to violate consent is not the same as getting affirmative consent. Equating them is dishonest.
      - robin_reala 3y ago
        Well, no. To amend your example, let’s go with the sign saying “This is a gropy sort of party. Please use one of these convenient ‘I don’t want to be groped’ stickers before coming in if that’s not your thing.’”
      - dangus 3y ago

Nextgrid 3y ago

There are many valid counterpoints on why you shouldn't trust/use this, but the mere existence of it raises a very valid point and calls Mozilla's BS; why does this fork exist at all if Mozilla supposedly cares about your privacy, security and freedom?

sneak 3y ago
Mozilla ships Firefox with telemetry (aka spyware, given that it operates silently and automatically without consent) enabled by default. They also ship closed source DRM in the browser which infringes on software freedoms. Mozilla doesn't actually care that much about privacy or freedom, it's just marketing to make line go up and to the right while Mozilla staff can keep collecting paychecks for being "the good guys". There's a lot of money involved. There is a big disconnect between what they say and what they do. They're not an ad company, so Google/Chrome is obviously worse, but if you care about privacy you don't ship a browser with surveillance features in it (which is what Firefox is). I am happy this project exists, and I will support them. This is how free software is supposed to work.
- mangecoeur 3y ago
  Telemetry and spyware are not the same thing (irrespective of whatever Firefox is doing). There is a big difference between tracking to try to understand how users are using a software or getting information on bugs and crashes, and tracking with the aim of monetizing personal data. I'm personally not crazy about telemetry implying information is uploaded to a software provider, but from experience I know that trying to create a software without getting in-use data is basically flying blind. You cannot expect users to tell you about problems or bugs they have, they will just stop using your software and you will never know why.
  - gabereiser 3y ago
    Tracking is tracking, no matter what outcomes you derive from it.
    - 3y ago

robwert 3y ago

privacytests.org shows how Librewolf privacy testing scores compares to others.

lucgommans 3y ago
Very interesting website! I submitted it[1] because it's quite the eye-opener for me (e.g. blob tracking is new to me, and if you click on the cell, it shows you PoC test code!) and I had missed its previous submission two years ago. Brave, Librewolf, Mullvad, and Tor hide the user's screen dimensions, whereas Firefox and Chrome don't. I'm curious, how often does that break things? I imagine that quite a few sites use this for choosing how to position things with JavaScript. Certainly not a majority, but with how many websites an average techy visits on an average day, it might still be somewhat frequent that you get ill-fitting content. Do you use Librewolf, or does someone else use it who can tell? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37433207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37433207
- beardog 3y ago
  >I'm curious, how often does that break things? Pretty much never. They hide it by changing it. This results in a margin around your view port that is fitted to one of several common dimensions. Since they are common, nearly all websites look okay in it.
  - lucgommans 3y ago
    Oh I see! I know that from the Tor browser, didn't realise they all do it that way.

tiffanyh 3y ago

I like the idea of LibreWolf, but never understand why it isn’t just a FF profile setting (Eg “Max Privacy = on/off”)

mangecoeur 3y ago
There pretty much is https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/telemetry-clientid https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/telemetry-clientid Settings -> Firefox Data Collection and Use -> turn off telemetry.
- tiffanyh 3y ago
  Isn't it way more than that. Like all of the settings detailed at the link below: https://librewolf.net/docs/settings/ https://librewolf.net/docs/settings/

grey_earthling 3y ago

Iceraven is a similar (in principle) fork of Firefox for Android. => https://github.com/fork-maintainers/iceraven-browser/ https://github.com/fork-maintainers/iceraven-browser/

_rdvw 3y ago
It should be noted that Iceraven is not compiled from source, ie. it only compiles the UI/app layer, and not the engine or other components. https://github.com/fork-maintainers/iceraven-browser/issues/463 https://github.com/fork-maintainers/iceraven-browser/issues/... Full disclosure: I maintain Mull and Fennec F-Droid.
discardedrefuse 3y ago
Mull is another popular Firefox Android fork. It's part of the DivestOS project and available on F-Droid. https://f-droid.org/packages/us.spotco.fennec_dos/ https://f-droid.org/packages/us.spotco.fennec_dos/

extr0pian 3y ago

Just yesterday I had noticed that, "Suggestions from sponsors" in the address bar had been turned back on after a recent Firefox update, and then installed Librewolf. I really want to use it as my main browser, but certain use cases such as online banking (at least with my credit union) doesn't seem to work properly, so I re-disabled "Suggestions from sponsors" in Firefox and went on with my day. Seriously, changing user settings with updates is a major dick move and something I'd expect from Microsoft and not Mozilla. Edit: Turning off the anti-fingerprinting feature in LibreWolf is needed for online banking to work.

kornhole 3y ago
I use both Firefox and Librewolf to achieve browser isolation. Librewolf is my default browser for all anonymous browsing such as news sites. I use Firefox for all my real name ID account logins such as banking. This way your Librewolf browser fingerprint is never associated to your real ID.
- extr0pian 3y ago
  Yeah, I get the concept of using different browsers for different things to compartmentalize, and I've tried it, but to me it just seems like I'm making my life more complicated switching back and forth, and I feel like it's cluttering up my system. I love how Librewolf takes privacy to another level, but honestly, all I want is Firefox without all the BS and the ability to disable things I don't want (and not having them turned back on).
  - snowram 3y ago
    A custom user.js will do the job
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - hn8305823 3y ago
      It used to be really easy to search about:config for 'http' and just delete all URL's to quiet things down. More recently the about:config search only searches attributes not values so you have to "show all" and it's quite tedious to find them all. Even then there are some things you have to block with a hosts file entry. That said it is possible to have firefox start cleanly with absolutely no network traffic except for sites you visit.

MrAlex94 3y ago

Disclaimer: I develop Waterfox. I think it’s worth noting that Librewolf provides unsigned binaries and at least on Windows, you need to trust a third party service to provide automatic updates.

ryanrussell 3y ago
These are both interesting niche projects from a user privacy perspective. Is anyone who is more familiar with Waterfox and LibreWolf able to objectively expand on the differences between these projects? It sounds like the unsigned binary may be a maturity issue that will get tackled based on the mission statement(educated guess?). Would greatly appreciate anyone with more knowledge about these projects elaborating.
- Terretta 3y ago
  > interesting niche projects from a user privacy perspective. While it's difficult to track Waterfox's stance, this is from one of the earlier blog posts on what appears to be a hot button topic for users: I’ve never wanted or tried to have Waterfox appear as a privacy tool or anything more than what it is. That’s for hyper specialised tools such as Tor. People have extrapolated more from Waterfox themselves. I never wanted Waterfox to be a part of the hyper-privacy community. It would just feel like standards that would be impossible to uphold, especially for something such as a web browser on the internet. Throughout the years people have always asked about Waterfox and privacy, and if they’ve ever wanted more than it can afford, I’ve always pushed them to use Tor. Waterfox was here for customisations and speed, with a good level of privacy. I can respect what the community fights for, but I don’t think I can respect how they sometimes fight for it or how they act when they believe they are wronged. Harassment and foul words seem to be the normal, as I’ve experienced. As far as I’m aware, Waterfox has never been listed anywhere as a privacy tool, and rightly so. Note the Waterfox commenter in this thread is not calling it "privacy" tool, while focusing on aspects that carry "trust". These are indeed distinct.
- MrAlex94 3y ago
  I’m happy to expand on it - maybe someone else can chime in as well. From a comment[1] I’ve made before for this kind of comparison: “Now, ignoring feature differences between all the forks out there, I'd like to present a different perspective and consideration that I think gets overlooked when comparing forks like Waterfox to other forks (if I am incorrect regarding Librewolf, someone please correct me). * Waterfox provides signed binaries for download. Librewolf (and most of the rest) do not. Checksum's are all well and good, but IMO, not enough. Code signing provides trust. * Librewolf does not provide auto-updates. There are 3rd party tools out there, but IMHO that brings in its own set of problems, and breaks the chain-of-trust. * The most important one that I believe, maybe apart from Pale Moon, only Waterfox does, is offers accountability. There is (and has been since 2012) a legal entity behind Waterfox. That used to be Waterfox Limited, then it was System1 and now BrowserWorks (the entity I control). Laws must be abided and the end user actually has an entity to hold accountable. GDPR, CCPA, the rest are things that actually need to be followed. The other projects, who are you really going to hold accountable if things go wrong? To me this is super important because a browser is used for sensitive information. It's just not worth the risk otherwise. This also goes hand in hand with the code signing. * Above all else, Waterfox has been around for 12 years now. Don't get me wrong, things like EV code signing certs are a bit of a racket, and yeah you can jump in and code audit all those other forks too. But really, push comes to shove, they can just disappear into the aether.” [1] https://reddit.com/r/waterfox/comments/14seevh/waterfox_or_librewolf/jqwuan8/ https://reddit.com/r/waterfox/comments/14seevh/waterfox_or_l...

roschdal 3y ago

LibreWolf is a set of patches against Firefox.

clot27 3y ago

[flagged]

itvision 3y ago

The biggest problem with all these "privacy" oriented web browsers is that you have to trust their creators explicitly and I just cannot. Most often the developers are some random anonymous Joes without CVs or anything proving they have reputation at stake. Thank you, but no thank you. Even if the official Firefox "leaks" something it's well controlled and well known. What do these browsers do? I've no idea.

WhereIsTheTruth 3y ago
It's just a series of patches pick them up individually and maintain your own fork, not that hard https://codeberg.org/librewolf/source https://codeberg.org/librewolf/source
ShowalkKama 3y ago
it's open source, you can simply look at the code (or, better, at the differences with firefox)
- Astronaut3315 3y ago
  Just like that North Korean symbol downloader on GitHub, which had a malware downloader hidden in plain sight for nearly a year with no one noticing?
  - inversetelecine 3y ago
    On the other hand, on might ask: How long would it have gone unnoticed if the source wasn't open?
  - archargelod 3y ago
    There are far more eyes on firefox and it's hardened forks, then on a random/obscure piece of software (sorry, I have no idea what exact malware you're referencing).
    - bragr 3y ago

ac130kz 3y ago

Just use a custom user.js, LibreWolf doesn't deliver much beyond a few major tweaks and a logo.

funOtter 3y ago
do you have an example or directions?
- joveian 3y ago
  https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js/ https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js/ I don't use or recommend exactly what they do but they have a long list of settings you might want to change that is better documented than any other source I've seen and if you click the wiki link there is detailed info about how user.js works.
- ac130kz 3y ago
  You can start with mine, I've mostly stripped all the telemetry, added DoQ DNS (please, don't use my NextDNS id :D otherwise it's going to eat the free 300k limit), lots extra DNS/HTTP/rendering performance tweaks, some security fixes (e.g. deprecated ciphers) without performance penalties and personal Firefox's quality of life changes (smaller delays, ability to save everything, tracker stripping, etc). Some configs like the already mentioned Arkenfox's take security to a next level with first party cookies only, sandboxing and etc, it might be too overwhelming and not actually that necessary. https://gitlab.com/ac130kz/dotfiles/-/blob/main/configs/user.js?ref_type=heads https://gitlab.com/ac130kz/dotfiles/-/blob/main/configs/user...

deafpolygon 3y ago

What exactly do we gain by browsing more anonymously if we just read news or go on social media sites?

graemep 3y ago
People profiling your interests, mental state, politics, religion, sexysl orientation, ..... You can deduce a lot with enough data.
- deafpolygon 3y ago
  how often is this data correlated with an actual person? or is this info collected in aggregate on a group of people?

gamedna 3y ago

privacy browsers be all like: https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/

mewse-hn 3y ago

I got fed up with Chrome recently (some real ugly on-by-default advertising tracking) and switched to Firefox on my work computer but not my home computer yet. Is anyone out there self-hosting firefox sync successfully? My googling seemed to only bring up a deprecated version so I haven't really tried setting it up yet.

itvision 3y ago
Firefox sync encrypts your data with your password (it's not exactly like that but that's the gist of it) and Mozilla has zero access to it, none at all. I see no reason not to trust them with that. It's a lot easier and _safer_ to use their service then to set up your own. Why safer? Because with your own self-hosting, now you have to have an extra device wide open to the Internet whose safety and security you need to maintain. If it's some shared hosting, you'll have to trust your hosting provider.
- Cyphase 3y ago
  You make a good point about a potential pitfall of self-hosting things. I'll mention though that if you are self-hosting for just yourself (or some small number of people), you can set up a VPN connection for secure access to your private network, which eliminates the need to open ports to the public internet at all. Other than the VPN of course. Not that you should necessarily rely solely on the VPN for your security, but it helps.

PurpleRamen 3y ago

It's fascinating that there are quite a number of forks from Firefox aiming for more privacy, security and old codebases, but none for improving the browser itself, making it more interesting for power users. Considering all that was lost in the quantum-phase, I would think someone would fork it just for improving some small things like better vim-style support or a second sidebar.

kaba0 3y ago
A browser is easily larger than a whole OS. Like, even Microsoft gave up on their own engine. That's why we should be so thankful for Firefox.

Brian_K_White 3y ago

Another reason to use it on Ubuntu is simply it's still available as a normal app instead of a snap.

transportheap 3y ago

previous thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29106155 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29106155

dang 3y ago
Thanks! Macroexpanded: LibreWolf: A custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36921443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36921443 - July 2023 (8 comments) LibreWolf: A privacy-focused Firefox fork - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31894749 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31894749 - June 2022 (77 comments) LibreWolf – A fork of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30720301 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30720301 - March 2022 (217 comments) LibreWolf – A fork of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29106155 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29106155 - Nov 2021 (306 comments) LibreWolf: A fork of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26034774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26034774 - Feb 2021 (1 comment) LibreWolf – A fork of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23901130 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23901130 - July 2020 (5 comments)

MOZ_KILL_TRUST 3y ago

[flagged]

ArtemZ 3y ago

The name is really weird, like it was selected by a 12 years old

hatsune 3y ago

The daily dose of privacyguides forum dissing LibreWolf for unjustified [reason](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/librewolf-browser-firefox-fork/148 https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/librewolf-browser-firefo...), while their recommanded "Brave" was delibrately a product to replace annoying ads with their own commercial ads and earn BAT crypto, built-in VPN, built-in Web3, wallet, whatever stuff... Their opinion TLDR; no auto-updater (community auto-updater exists), no advantage to config Arkenfox.js by yourself (but why do I need to be a json geek to just use a browser?) LW the best daily-driver browser for me, they still include the option to use FF Sync, which is supposed to be safe as E2EE. Mullvad Browser is better but hard to daily drive. Similar to ublock origin advanced mode (which basically is uMatrix continued), be prepared to fix the site by yourself sometimes. But for safety, privacy, anonymity and security, hell yah.