4 ms·

> convinced the USSR they couldn't win i dont think they were convinced they couldn't win - they just realized their economic laggardness. The remnants of the

• 4gotunameagain 3y ago
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  • decremental 3y ago
    [dead]
  • torstenvl 3y ago
    The United States never made any such promise, and doesn't have the unilateral ability to expand NATO in any case.
  • martin8412 3y ago
    Russia is the best NATO recruiter in the world. Countries are actively applying to become NATO members, because they don't want to be puppets ruled entirely by the Moscow elite. Sure, American imperialism is awful, but for most countries that's a far better proposition, because it comes with way more democratic freedom and less strings. A country can leave NATO if they want to. A country can't cut ties with Russia without a war.
  • abenga 3y ago
    It doesn't seem to be working for RU though. Finland joined NATO and Sweden is going to because of their Ukraine shenanigans.
  • hkpack 3y ago
    > the US broke a promise to the USSR of not expanding NATO There is literally zero evidence of that, except claims by the Russian propaganda itself. People who live in totalitarian countries (like Russia, where ruler is in a power for a lifetime), seems to not understand that democracies don't do promises, because leaders changes frequently, and any promise without written agreement is just plain impossible except very short term. So you are using an instance of internal russian lie and propaganda to "hate US imperialism and propaganda", and don't see it yourself.
    • flurdy 3y ago
      There possibly was an "understanding" with the USSR not to expand eastward when the Soviet union was around but when the USSR dissolved that "promise" made no sense anymore.
    • 4gotunameagain 3y ago
      National Security Archive at George Washington University: Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner You're welcome. https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017... All of your comments are suspiciously related to US foreign policy issues btw ;)
      • deleted 3y ago
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      • jacobwilliamroy 3y ago
        I want to see more countries join NATO. NATO is just a cool idea. Having the militaries from 31 countries all under one command structure. I genuinely would like to see them try.
        • sidewndr46 3y ago
          I don't understand why people think this. NATO does not mandate a unified command structure. France pulled out in 1966. It didn't rejoin until the 21st century.
          • jacobwilliamroy 3y ago
            I just assumed that's one of the things NATO did. I haven't actually read the treaty. I probably should.
      • chelical 3y ago
  • tryauuum 3y ago
    Calling invading a neighbor country "defending Russia's interests" sounds weird
    • 4gotunameagain 3y ago
      When viewed from afar, war is just an extension of diplomacy. I am against any invasion whatsoever, but using any means necessary to ensure Ukraine does not join NATO (something that the US fought for), is indeed a defence of Russian interests.
      • _kbh_ 3y ago
        > When viewed from afar, war is just an extension of diplomacy. I am against any invasion whatsoever, but using any means necessary to ensure Ukraine does not join NATO (something that the US fought for), is indeed a defence of Russian interests. Russia already got multiple assurances that Ukraines NATO membership would be vetoed. They clearly don't care about NATO or about defending Russian interests, this is plain and simple imperialism.
      • inglor_cz 3y ago
        Living much closer than you do ... you are speaking of Russian interests, while you probably mean Russian imperial interests. This is not a subtle difference. Japanese imperial interests led to a massively destructive war that wasn't really in the interest of the Japanese population. Same with Russia. Plenty of Buryats, Tuvans, Dagestanis and other peripheral nations of the Russian Federation died as cannon fodder for an imperial idea that doesn't even consider them equal to white Slavic Russians. I would argue that it is in the best interests of Russia as such that their imperial dreams collapse and never arise again. Other nations managed to shake off that backward worldview. Russians can perhaps, too, one day.
  • pohuing 3y ago
    You'd think they got something that important to them signed on paper in public. Instead of hidden backroom talk. START was public, Minsk was and so was Budapest. Why is just this one agreement not a real contract.
  • deleted 3y ago
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  • PeterisP 3y ago
    "promise of not expanding NATO" is an invention of Russian propaganda with no basis in any treaties, and even Gorbachev personally has admitted that no such promises were made.